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Amanda Wood
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FM9 Both the .fm and .backup files unexpectedly deleted from the network. Anyone else?

Nov 19, 2010 5:52 AM

I submitted below as a bug because it has now happened to both me and my colleague. I have copied below the same information from my bug report.

Basic info: FM 9.0p.255, OS 64 bit, Windows 7

 

We have just upgraded to the new version and this is a serious thing if you don't keep backups! You will never know when it is going to disappear.

 

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Bug report:
When working with a Framemaker document it is unexpectedly deleted with no reason from the computer/network - this includes the backup.

 

The user did not delete it and it was an active document. There are different instances where the document would disappear. Below is one example of the steps taken.
Steps to reproduce bug:
1. Opened FM file.
2. Saved as an MIF file.
3. Closed FM file
4. Opened MIF file.
5. Edited the color definitions.
5. Clicked save button to save the mif file back to the source fm file.

 

Results:
Error message says that the file with extension .fm does not exist or has an unexpected extension. The .lck file exists but the .fm and backup files are gone.
Luckily I had the mif file and could rename it to a .fm file in this instance to recover the document. My colleague lost all versions (.fm and backup).

 

Expected results: that you would be able to replace the old version that is still on the network or computer.

 
Replies 1 2 Previous Next
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 19, 2010 5:58 AM   in reply to Amanda Wood

    Amanda,


    Are you running any type of CMS or version control software?

    When you're saying that backup copies have disappeared, are you talking about automatically generated FM *.backup files?

    Do you have timed saves turned ON?

     
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    Nov 19, 2010 5:59 AM   in reply to Amanda Wood

    But if you don't mess with the color definitions while doing this MIF-wash, does anything bad happen? If not, then the lesson for MIF-washing is, "Don't do any 'FM' changes while the file is still a MIF; wait and save it back as a .fm, then monkey with settings"

     
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    Nov 19, 2010 10:22 AM   in reply to Amanda Wood

    Amanda,

     

    This is not an answer, but I just want to point out one little thing.

     

    When you open a mif file in FrameMaker and then try to save it, Frame displays the message that it cannot save the file in that format, whether the format selected is mif or fm. The key is that the default file name includes the .mif extension. If one deletes the .mif from the end of the file name, then FrameMaker will happily save it to the fm format. I bring this up because if you are working quickly, you may have misunderstood the message, assuming of course that this is the message you got.....but maybe you really did get the message your report.

     

    Van

     
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    Nov 19, 2010 11:13 AM   in reply to Amanda Wood

    Amanda, to add a little bit to Van's posting, FM9 definitely works differently than earlier versions when it's doing the Save  and/or Save As step, so it could be that you and your colleagues are experiencing a side-effect from that change.

     

    In previous versions it used to drive me NUTS that we had to manually change the file extension when doing the save / save as (change the .mif to .fm or vice versa). In FM 9 that no longer is necessary, because changing the dropdown menu "Save as type" will automatically change the filename extension shown just above.

     

    Could it be that when you are saving the document you type in the full name ("example.fm") but then you don't notice that the "Save as Type" is still showing the "Document 9.0 .fm" selection, or vice versa, and FM gets confused?

     

    Or perhaps are you clicking on Save while you're editing (I'm in the camp that does Ctl-s reflexively, compulsively, and with almost pathological abandon while working, it would take considerable effort to retrain myself out of it). If so, maybe FM is actually saving your .mif as .fm and in the process "silently" changing the file type, so that when you finally do your last "save", it thinks the file is the opposite type?

     

    Sheila

     
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    Nov 19, 2010 12:35 PM   in reply to Sheila Carlisle
    In FM 9 that no longer is necessary, because changing the dropdown menu "Save as type" will automatically change the filename extension shown just above.

     

    Not quite Sheila.

     

    If you Save As an fm file, you can change the dropdown to mif and the file name changes accordingly.

     

    HOWEVER, if you Save As (or Save) a mif file, the dropdown defaults to fm. If you change the dropdown to fm, the file name remains the same. If you change the dropdown to mif, or course the file name does not change. BUT if you then change the dropdown to fm, the file name changes to .fm. Go figure.

     

    Hence, when I save mif to fm, I have got in to the habit of just deleting the .mif and then saving as fm. Very inconsistent.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 17, 2012 2:10 PM   in reply to Amanda Wood

    Hi,

     

    I have FrameMaker 10 and my colleagues and I are experiencing a similar problem.  It happens very randomly, but when it happens it is when we update the book or when we try to print. Right now, we are getting around that issue by creating a copy of the entire FrameMaker file folder prior to updating/ generating.  It's a work-around so we would appreciate a more concrete solution.

     

    Thanks!

    Akari

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 28, 2012 5:23 AM   in reply to Akari@Coherent

    @Akari - your issue sounds more like a network issue than a FM one. Do you have sufficient rights to the network location where the FM files are? Do you experience disconnection issues with the drives?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 18, 2013 12:51 PM   in reply to Jeff_Coatsworth

    I experienced the same problem as Akari in FM 10 and I was not on a network. I was working locally and saved my book changes as I normally do, then regenerated the book. During the regeneration process, FM could not continue regenerating as it could not find a file contained in the book. I checked and double-checked my source folder; the file in question and its backup file were completely missing. This was an active file, too (I'd just made extensive changes to it) and a whole days' work was obliterated in an instant.

     

    After that happened, I instilled Akari's work-around.

     

    I just started using FM 11 and am curious to know if anyone has experienced this issue with FM 11?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 20, 2013 5:34 AM   in reply to Amanda Wood

    Have to say that I have never had this happen to me & my FM files are (and have always been) located on our network servers from TCS version 2 to 4. I have noticed some issues with locked files (.lck) being left after closing out FM, but I suspect that's an issue with Windows servers, not FM.

     
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    Jun 20, 2013 7:27 AM   in reply to Amanda Wood

    Yep, completely unacceptable, but the common thread here is most likely your environment, not FM. In 20 years of Fm, I've not once ever experienced what you have seen nor have I had clients experience it.

     

    I suggest you "sit on" your IT folk until they explain how this could happen and explain how they'll keep you from losing work in the future.

     
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    Jun 20, 2013 7:35 AM   in reply to Amanda Wood

    Amanda, I noticed something in your original post...

     

    3. Closed FM file

    4. Opened MIF file.

    5. Edited the color definitions.

    5. Clicked save button to save the mif file back to the source fm file.

     

    It sounds from the above like you are opening the MIF in Fm, then saving that file to a .fm file.

     

    Sorry for the explicit instructions here, but...

     

    A MIF file is a text file. Although you may use Fm as a "text" editor, you must be very careful to save the MIF, or txt file back to a Text Only doc via the Save As feature.

     

    I highly recommend using a separate text editor like NotePad (free, of course or NotePad++ (OpenSource) to avoid mistakely saving the text file back as an Fm binary file. Once the file is modified, open the MIF file as you would any other Fm or Word file in Fm and you should be fine.

     

    Apologies if you already knew this, but as written, your steps in the original post would wreak havoc on the files in question.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 26, 2013 8:45 AM   in reply to Amanda Wood

    We are using FrameMaker 9, and two members of our team have experienced the sudden deletion of files while updating the book (Edit > Update Book).  I can copy the files to my local drive, and update the book, but when I try to update the book files saved on the network, the files disappear.  We have been working off of the same network drive going back to FrameMaker 7.2, and this is the first time we have ever experienced this issue. 

     

    Also, not every book file does this.  We have been unable to determine why some books will update correctly and why some books will have files disappear during the updating process.

     
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    Jun 26, 2013 8:46 AM   in reply to Satira17

    @Satira17 - tell us more about your network & o/s involved. Do you have admin rights to the folders on the network where the files disappear?

     
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    Jun 26, 2013 8:52 AM   in reply to Jeff_Coatsworth

    I don't know what specifics you need to know about the network, but we are running Windows 7 64 bit.  We have the same rights to all folders.  i.e.  I have the same rights to folder where book Title X is saved as I do to the folder where book Title Y is saved.  Moreover, both of these books are saved on the same network drive.  The path for both would look like this:

     

    Z:\Technical Publications\Title X\Title X.book

     

    Z:\Technical Publications\Title Y\Title Y.book

     

    Book Title X will have files disappear during updating and Title Y will not.

     
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    Jun 26, 2013 9:12 AM   in reply to Satira17

    If you checked the Security properties of the z:\ folders, do you have “Full Control” or something more limited. What o/s is running on the server that z:\ is located on?

     
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    Jun 27, 2013 7:14 AM   in reply to Jeff_Coatsworth

    Our permissions are more limited than Full Control, but again, the permissions are the same for both folders.  If the problem was UAC related, it should happen to both books. 

     

    Also, our IS dept. says the Z: drive is on a standard 2008 R2 file server.

     
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    Jun 27, 2013 7:49 AM   in reply to Satira17

    Have you got the network file locking turned on in FM? I forget if you said so or not..

     
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    Jun 27, 2013 8:01 AM   in reply to Jeff_Coatsworth

    The Network File Locking check box is selected.  When I searched the help system for those three words, none of the results really seemed to apply to that option.  Can you explain what this preference does?  Is it as simple as this enables FrameMaker to create the .lck file when it is open?

     
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    Jun 27, 2013 8:03 AM   in reply to Satira17

    Creates a .lck version of the file when you open it; if someone else tries to open it, they get a warning message about somebody currently editing the file. Win servers sometimes leave these files around when nobody is accessing the files and they have to be manually deleted.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 6, 2013 5:08 AM   in reply to Jeff_Coatsworth

    Hello to everyone,

     

    This issue has just happened to me for the first time today after using FM for several years and in various versions, I have never seen this before.

    So I'm using FM 11 on Windows 7, I'm working locally, network file on network option is checked (by default, I haven't played with that). I'm not converting the files into other formats.

     

    The files I'm working on disappear randomly, so I have to copy-paste them from the network (I always make a copy of my work directories on my archive disk) as I go during the update/book generation process. So far the .book file hasn't disappeared though.

     

    I really don't understand. Does anyone have any idea ?

     

    Thanks in advance

     
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    Sep 6, 2013 5:38 AM   in reply to CTA_VO

    Since this only seems to occur when updating the book - have you tried opening all the component files first before updating? Book updates do a silent open in the background and sometimes run into issues that aren't reported in the UI. I'm wondering if something like this is causing the program to fail to save the opened file.

    You may also want to check the folder permissions on the network drive & your anti-virus scanner - some of them are very aggressive.

     
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    Sep 6, 2013 5:56 AM   in reply to Jeff_Coatsworth

    I did try opening all the files in the book prior to updating, but it did not help.  If I remember correctly, it would return an error stating the file no longer exists or couldn't be found. 

     
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    Sep 6, 2013 6:11 AM   in reply to Satira17

    Same here. Also I haven't changed folder permissions or anything.

     

    This behavior has suddenly appeared today, without any change in how I manipulate files or anything.

     
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    Sep 6, 2013 6:20 AM   in reply to Satira17

    @Satira17 - that was already too late - the file was already gone; I meant opening all files before updating & verifying that they were all there first; then updating

     
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    Sep 6, 2013 6:22 AM   in reply to Jeff_Coatsworth

    I am 100% positive my files were there before I started working on them.

     
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    Sep 6, 2013 6:24 AM   in reply to Jeff_Coatsworth

    @Amanda & @CTA_VO - sounds like you may have found the problem - the introduction of this Windows DFS may be the root cause. @CTA_VO, check with your IT dept to see if they've just implemented it. @Amanda, if you can use a server that's not got it turned on & your files are stable, then you've deinitely found the issue. Report it to Adobe when you confirm the cause.

     
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    Sep 6, 2013 6:28 AM   in reply to Jeff_Coatsworth

    No, I know what you meant.  I opened all the files.  Everything was there.  I tried to update, and it eventually would return an error stating the file was no longer there or could not be found.  The file did not disappear until I updated . . . even if it was open before the update was initiated.

     
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    Sep 6, 2013 6:29 AM   in reply to Satira17

    So if you’re getting that message & you still have the file open in FM (because you opened them all & kept them open, right?) then the issue has got to do with the server/network failing somewhere.

     
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    Sep 6, 2013 6:37 AM   in reply to Jeff_Coatsworth

    Yes, I left them open.  As previously stated, "I can copy the files to my local drive, and update the book, but when I try to update the book files saved on the network, the files disappear.  We have been working off of the same network drive going back to FrameMaker 7.2, and this is the first time we have ever experienced this issue."

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 6, 2013 6:45 AM   in reply to Satira17

    In my case, there is no network issue involved:

    - I worked locally

    - I open the book locally (so I checked that all my files were there)

    - then I open the files that need an update,

    - then I close all my files (everything is done on my hard disk),

    - then I update my book,

    - and then bam ! this file and this file cannot be opened because it doesn't exist or something like that ( I have lost up to 5 files at a time with this issue).

    I contacted my IT to check about this DFS , but this is not something they have implemented in our system. And again I do all my work locally. It is only at the end of my work day that I make a copy of my work on the network drive.

     
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    Sep 6, 2013 6:52 AM   in reply to CTA_VO

    @CTA_VO - so if this is happening all on your local c: drive, then there's got to be something funky going on with your machine that's causing you to lose files!  Better give us some more info on your set up - FM version, O/S, project location, admin rights, RAM, anti-virus, etc.

     
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    Sep 6, 2013 6:54 AM   in reply to Satira17

    @Satira17 – so you only have an issue when the update takes place on the FM files on the network, right? Not if they are copied local & updated there like @CTA_VO?

     
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