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New Nikon D3, D300, and D700 "Camera" v3 beta profiles

Jan 20, 2011 9:14 AM

  Latest reply: MadManChan2000, Jul 24, 2012 1:36 PM
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 28, 2011 3:52 PM   in reply to MadManChan2000

    Are theses profiles relevant to ACR in CS3? Thanks for any replies. Tony.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 10, 2011 9:23 AM   in reply to Flyshow

    Can you easily explain how to do this so that I can create camera profiles for my Canon G11? 

     

    Would this help with matching colors between my G11 and my Nikon D700 if, let's say, I'm shooting with both cameras at the same location?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 10, 2011 2:34 PM   in reply to j8kerussell

    Just beware.

     

    I don't know how many models gynngee has done this with (and had "perfect" results), but if it were always that simple, Adobe would not have different files to implement the same profile on different cameras. Different cameras may have different sensor response characteristics, so how well this works will depend on how similar the two camera sensor response characteristics are, and maybe some other things I don't know about...

     

    Regarding more officially supported ways of doing it:

     

    One easy way to get the same look on different camera brands is to choose an Adobe profile (i.e. Adobe Standard or ACR 4.X...).

     

    The other way is to use the DNG profile editor (read the doc).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 10, 2011 4:41 PM   in reply to Rob Cole

    To match two cameras, at least to some degree, you use a color-checker and Adobe or X-Rite software to create a custom dual-illuminant profile, and/or set of profiles for different lighting conditions, based on the Adobe Standard profile for each of your cameras.

     

    To create a custom profile you buy a Color Checker Passport from X-Rite which includes the software or use a larger, standard-sized Color Checker also available from X-Rite and then use the DNG Profile Editor from Adobe Labs.

     

    ColorChecker Passport:

    http://xritephoto.com/ph_product_overview.aspx?ID=1257

     

    DNG Profile Editor:

    http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles

     
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  • John Blaustein
    524 posts
    Aug 11, 2002
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    Jul 10, 2011 4:51 PM   in reply to ssprengel

    Datacolor / Colorvision also has a new camera profiling package called SpyderCheckr:

     

    http://spyder.datacolor.com/product-cb-spydercheckr.php

     

    John

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 10, 2011 5:17 PM   in reply to John Blaustein

    Looks good.  Thanks for the heads-up.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 10, 2011 7:33 PM   in reply to John Blaustein

    Just to be clear, the Datacolor doesn't provide a DNG Profile as a result, it produces a set of modifications of the HSL sliders in the form of Presets. Not the same thing at all and depending on your needs, less optimal than having a real DNG Profile. You must limit your adjustments of the color rendering to the HSL panel so it eliminates the use of HSL in other presets (otherwise you overwrite your HSL settings).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 10, 2011 8:28 PM   in reply to Rob Cole

    Most of the false profiles I did personally were done Pre DNG Profiler or CC Passport. In fact I refer to them as presets. They were presets using a Macbeth card and a combination of the Tone curve , camera profile and HSL tabs in ACR . Being a Nikon- Fuji user my main objective was to try to produce fuji -portrait -fuji - velvia look with my D200 -D2x cameras. I found reproducing the ACR interpretations of the Fuji more successful than reproducing the colors given by the Fuji software. None of them were perfect. But as presets I found it easier to address color problems on an image to image basis. The big problem colors from memory was Blue - Cyan and Orange - Brown . With skin tones on a Fuji the shadow is a lot redder and more saturated than the Nikon ( being more yellow and muddy). When this was addressed the oranges went way to red. Later after Dng profiler was released I had a couple of goes but from memory it had different issues. I still occasionally use these presets on my D2x's & D200 but if final output if within the confines of the S5 I will use one of my S5s, those files are like putty.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 10, 2011 9:20 PM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    The DNG Profile Editor/X-Rite Passport software and the Datacolor HSL presets would seem to complement each other, so I'd likely use both.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 10, 2011 10:02 PM   in reply to ssprengel

    ssprengel wrote:

     

    The DNG Profile Editor/X-Rite Passport software and the Datacolor HSL presets would seem to complement each other, so I'd likely use both.

     

    I would suggest you look a bit further...dealing with a Preset vs a DNG Profile is different...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 10, 2011 11:51 PM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    I would use Adobe Standard in place when computing multiple Datacolor HSL presets for various lighting conditions.

     

    I would also Adobe Standard as the basis of a dual-illuminant DNG Profile Editor profile and have this custom profile in place when creating multiple Datacolor HSL presets for various lighting conditions.

     

    Then I would use Imatest and my eyes to see which was preferable.

     

    I realize the Adobe Standard profiles have hue-twists in them and the DNG Profile Editor-generated ones do not, so it's possible one scheme would be preferable over the other.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 16, 2011 1:29 PM   in reply to MadManChan2000

    Hello,

    are this Camera Profiles usable also on a D3X. Maybe not, I tried to install in the camera profiles folder under camera raw but they are not shown with files made by my D3x...

     

    Thanks

    Cristiano

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 17, 2011 11:43 PM   in reply to MadManChan2000

    Thank you!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 6, 2011 7:36 AM   in reply to MadManChan2000

    I draged the "Camera v3 beta" folder to (Win7): C:\ProgramData\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles.

    There are 2 other folders: Adobe Standard and Camera

     

    Within LR / ACR are just standard Adobe settings, nothing about "Nikon ...v3.dcp"

    Tried different places, but still the same ...

     

    What am I doing wrong?

     

     

    PS: After unzipping filenames showed up in green instead of just black (Windows Explorer). Changeing this did not help either.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,455 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Nov 6, 2011 8:10 AM   in reply to Sucher888

    Given your mention of the color difference, is it possible you dragged a zip file into the CameraProfiles folder?  Windows Explorer attempts to make zip files look like folders, so there could be confusion there, but Adobe will not read information out of zip files directly.

     

    Try making a subfolder under CameraProfiles called Custom.  Then try dragging the .dcp files specifically into that folder.

     

    I'm assuming your camera is one of the ones noted.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • John Blaustein
    524 posts
    Aug 11, 2002
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    Nov 6, 2011 8:13 AM   in reply to Sucher888

    It sounds like you are doing nothing wrong.

     

    These beta profiles only support the D3, D300 and D700.  I assume you are using RAW (NEF) files in LR, and that in LR > Develop Module > Camera Calibration, you are clicking the Profile dropdown list.  The beta profiles use the same names as the Camera profiles, but the beta profiles have v3 after the name.

     

    John

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,455 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Nov 6, 2011 8:18 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    One more thing...

     

    When I add profiles for my own camera, I don't put them in the location listed above, I put them here:

     

    C:\Users\NoelC\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles

     

    This is more flexibly expressed in the general case as the following, which can be pasted into the Windows Explorer address bar:

     

    %USERPROFILE%\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 6, 2011 8:28 AM   in reply to John Blaustein

    Oh, I guess the problem might be this: mine a D300s and this will not work?

     

    I found somewhere else a dcp file for the D300s and this works.

     

    Is there a change to "switch" the D300 files with the DNG-Editor?

     
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  • John Blaustein
    524 posts
    Aug 11, 2002
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    Nov 6, 2011 8:33 AM   in reply to Sucher888

    No, the beta profile for the D300 will NOT work for the D300s.

     

    Would you mind posting the link to the D300s .dcp file that you found.  I'd like to try it.  Thanks.

     

    John

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 6, 2011 8:35 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    No, I just unzipped it somewhere on my hard drive and it turned out to be green writing.

    But changing it was easy within Explorer.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 6, 2011 8:42 AM   in reply to John Blaustein

    That's curious. Those profiles should work for the D90 as well since the sensors are the same. The D3 and the D700 have the same relationship as the D90 to the D300. Since I do have that folder in Camera RAW I thought about renaming the D300 to d90 to see if it works.

     

    Noel, whay two loactions for the same data? Seems then that ACR has to then search both locationss if data is in both?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 6, 2011 8:42 AM   in reply to John Blaustein

    Here you go for the D300s files:

    http://caarn.de/angepasstes-kameraprofil-in-lightroom-und-camera-raw/5 27/

     

    It`s German and the links are easy to find in the middle of the page.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 6, 2011 8:49 AM   in reply to Hudechrome

    As far as I know these files are not selected by file name, but by data/settings/description in the file.

     

    But I am still wondering if the D300 / D300s thing can be changed with some kind of DCP editor?

     
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  • John Blaustein
    524 posts
    Aug 11, 2002
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    Nov 6, 2011 8:48 AM   in reply to Sucher888

    THANK YOU!

     

     

    Sucher888 wrote:

     

    Here you go for the D300s files:

    http://caarn.de/angepasstes-kameraprofil-in-lightroom-und-camera-raw/5 27/

     

    It`s German and the links are easy to find in the middle of the page.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 6, 2011 8:53 AM   in reply to Sucher888

    There is a D90 version there as well, which I installed. The only difference from Adobe Standard is a shift in white balance, so far as my eye perceives.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,455 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Nov 6, 2011 8:56 AM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Hudechrome wrote:

     

     

    Noel, whay two loactions for the same data? Seems then that ACR has to then search both locationss if data is in both?

     

    They would certainly search both locations whether or not you put files in there.

     

    I don't claim to know what Adobe's motivations are/were, but I personally find it a Good Thing to keep the folders Adobe installs things into pristine.  Updates always just seem to go better when separation is maintained, not to mention I find it easier to keep track of my own files.

     

    And it's been a long time since one could notice the difference between one or two disk operations.

     

    I just did some disk benchmarks after installing some new drives in one of my servers...  At 700+ IO operations per second it would be hard to say looking in 2 places is slowing things down unacceptably in any practical sense.  The impact would be a few milliseconds.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 6, 2011 9:25 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    A millisecond here, a millisecond there, pretty soon it adds up to serious time!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 6, 2011 9:30 AM   in reply to Sucher888

    It works for D300S with a little extra work.

     

    1. Decompile DCP-file with dcptool (freeware) to XML

    2. Open XML with Notepad or Wordpad

    3. Add "S" (without " ") to D300 in the 2. last line: 

        <UniqueCameraModelRestriction>Nikon D300</UniqueCameraModelRestriction>

    4. Save XML and compile with dcptool too DCP again

     

    Anyway: Results come close to View NX, but not as brilliant ...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 6, 2011 9:31 AM   in reply to John Blaustein

    John, these D300 dcps will works as well with a little extra work!

     
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  • John Blaustein
    524 posts
    Aug 11, 2002
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    Nov 6, 2011 9:50 AM   in reply to Sucher888

    Thank you.

    Sucher888 wrote:

     

    John, these D300 dcps will works as well with a little extra work!

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,455 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Nov 6, 2011 4:46 PM   in reply to John Blaustein

    Given that a given profile is specific to a particular camera, and it seems likely there are differences even between siblings in two models from the same manufacturer released around the same time, I'm curious about whether you actually get color you like with it/them after hacking to work with a different model than they were designed for.

     

    I fully understand and agree that Adobe's own profiles (at least for the cameras I've had) leave something to be desired.  Still, it seems a stretch that a profile developed for a different camera could deliver better color than what you get out of the box for your camera from Adobe.

     

    Am I wrong about the differences between particular models being significant?

     

    Thanks for the tip on the free "decompiler", Sucher888.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 6, 2011 5:40 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Better is a subjective word. Different and useable is more to my thinking.

     

    The profile from the German site is a case in point. Most of the time if I use Adobe Standard, I tweak the color and keep the shading. The D90 profile has the same shading but "better" color. Yet, there are times I try Adobe Standard and go "Wow!

     

    The profile labeled flash is FAPP, identical to the daylight version.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 7, 2011 12:07 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel Carboni wrote:

     

    Given that a given profile is specific to a particular camera, and it seems likely there are differences even between siblings in two models from the same manufacturer released around the same time, I'm curious about whether you actually get color you like with it/them after hacking to work with a different model than they were designed for.

     

    I think this is a special case, as the D300s replaced the original D300 after 2 years, and was a minor revision to accomodate video, which had become popular since the D300 was introduced. Apart from the additional Quiet Shutter facility, I don't think much else was changed. Even the D90, which was introduced between the two, uses the same sensor.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 7, 2011 7:18 AM   in reply to Yammer

    Yammer P wrote:

    Even the D90, which was introduced between the two, uses the same sensor.

    Welll, who'd a thunk! (Hitting my forehead with my hammer hand)

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,455 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Nov 7, 2011 7:41 AM   in reply to MadManChan2000

    I don't want to be argumentative, and I know nothing about Nikon, but are we really sure these cameras use the same AA/IR block filter, same sensor filter compositions, same amplifiers and A to D conversion, and same raw data processing?

     

    A small variance in any of these things could make a big difference in the color characteristics.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 7, 2011 7:57 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Not argumentative, but realistic. My guess is that things like noise control and other basic corrections done at the root level might be different, but it makes little sense to have the same sensor for at least three cameras that preculdes the use of common filters and profiles. I will grant you points around the converter and possibly the amp.

     

    However, Nikon did not do that for the D700, (AFAIK!).

     

    Perhaps decompiling the D300 and doing the same change as was done between the 300 and 300s might be in order. It's about time I learn about doing this kind of work. I have the d/l. (Yikes! )

     

    On another front, I suddenly have the Nikon View NX looking like it's double profiling, or something. (My SO uses it on the other computer). So I have my work cut out for today.

     

    Later.......

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 8, 2011 1:51 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    > I don't want to be argumentative, and I know nothing about Nikon, but are we really sure these cameras use the same AA/IR block filter, same sensor filter compositions, same amplifiers and A to D conversion, and same raw data processing?

     

    compare Nikon D300 Adobe Standard.dcp and Nikon D300S Adobe Standard.dcp... they are identical...

     

    C:\ProgramData\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles\Adobe Standard>fc /b "Nikon D300 Adobe Standard.dcp" "Nikon D300S Adobe Standard.dcp"

    Comparing files Nikon D300 Adobe Standard.dcp and NIKON D300S ADOBE STANDARD.DCP

    0000000E: 0B 0C

    000000B4: 00 53

     

     

    so there are several possibilities here:

     

    1) simply a sloppy job (Adobe just copied data from D300 profile to D300s profile ... companies do that... PhaseOne copied once .icc profile from Pentax K7 /samsung sensor/ to Pentax K5 /sony sensor/ and did the same for some other cameрas in C1 v6.x)

     

    2) no difference really or differences are not detactable using standard Adobe profile creation technology/tools (colochecker, DNG Profile Editor, etc)

     

    3) differences are considered miiniscule based on how ACR/LR are working codewise during raw conversion using .dcp profiles

     

    so what do you think

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 8, 2011 8:10 PM   in reply to MadManChan2000

    Will they too need an exposure offset of -0.5?

     
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