I just put together my wish list for Lightroom 4.
http://davidnaylor.org/blog/2011/01/wish-list-for-lightroom-4/
What do you think? Did I miss anything important out?
Fix the cropping tool! It is currently very hard to make fine adjustments with the crop tool since both the border and the image moves. Keep the image still and make the border a 1 px dashed line, please!
I'd oppose that one, and replace it with crop while zoomed.
Fixed auto sync behaviour. If I select a number of photos in the film strip, activate auto sync and hit + + + + to increase the exposure by 0,4 stops I want the exposure for each photo to be increased relative to whatever it was before, not relative to 0.
I'd oppose that one too, and replace it with relative adjustments available in Develop as well as they already are in Quick Develop.
David Naylor's wish list, replicated (if I may be so bold...:)
My response:
1. That would be great.
2. I dont use picker for white balancing. Maybe I should sometimes...
3. I dont use slideshow module (but for those who do, it seems like a worthwhile improvement). I might use it if it didn't abort when Lightroom loses input focus (like when you click on another app).
4. Who could argue?
5. That would be great, and some other better color adjustment tools.
6. My biggest problems with crop tool are:
a. having it lose the crop when changing aspect ratio or re-adjusting angle.
b. having to readjust after rotation to maximize for width (would love a 'maximize width' checkbox or something - for custom aspect ratios only).
7. Two big thumbs up. And, doing something with auto-sync so its not so easy to use by accident - i.e. make it more clear when its on and when its off and when multiple photos are being adjusted, and when only one, and how to turn it on and how to turn it off... And, make all the relative adjustment increments minimal. I dont want to adjust highlight recovery in units of 5! Or temperature by 310 degrees at a time.
8. --
9. 'Twould be nice.
10. 'Twould be nice.
Summary: I'm with ya, that most of my desires for Lr4 are for improvements in the Develop Module.
Off the top of my head: fixing highlight recovery at the top of my list, followed by better color adjustment, locals, auto-masking... (of course a real distraction removal brush...)...
I agree with your desire for Panorama Stitching and HDR within Lightroom rather than having to send it to Photoshop and back. I'd prefer to stick with the original DNGs through the whole workflow and not have to convert it to TIFF to achieve these effects.
I would also add a couple of features that most other photo managers have: Geotagging and face recognition. I have been collecting track logs with a GPS logger since 2007, with the hopes of one day geotagging all my travel images. While there is good software out there that does this (Geosetter), it seems like a task Lightroom should handle. Geotagging and face recognition are already features built into Aperture, Picasa, and even Adobe Photoshop Elements. There is no reason Lightroom couldn't integrate them as well.
And I would also like to see Picasa Web added as a publishable site (like Flickr). Or better yet, a public API so that any web developers can integrate with Lightroom, rather than a set number being chosen by Adobe.
Keith Achorn wrote:
I agree with your desire for Panorama Stitching and HDR within Lightroom rather than having to send it to Photoshop and back. I'd prefer to stick with the original DNGs through the whole workflow and not have to convert it to TIFF to achieve these effects.
Not to knock your wishes, but exactly how would you expect a DNG raw file (or files) to be stitched for panos or combined into an HDR to behave? You realize that in order to do the blends (particularly panos that blend the layers with layer masks) you need RGB files, not raw files?
While it's certainly "interesting" to contemplate, I'm not sure a "maintain a raw file as a DNG" would work for panos. On the other hand, there might be some traction for combining multiple exposures into a single container that maintained the raw files. But, exactly how would you expect this to work?
I think Panoramic Stitching and HDR would be possible in the same way that other advanced features of Lightroom are performed: using RAW files and instructions. I have been impressed that Lightroom is able to perform incredible noise-reduction, lens corrections, and use adjustment brushes without needing to convert the file to a TIFF (as Photoshop would). Ultimately, I don't have the technical background to know if a single DNG file can store the information of multiple RAW files, but I bet it is. The real question may be whether Adobe is willing to move these advanced feature to Lightroom, which would decrease the needs of some to also buy Photoshop. I hope that Adobe recognizes the great potential of Lightroom to expand in the growing photography enthusiast market, who want these features but can't afford another $700 for PS.
Lee Jay wrote:
Fix the cropping tool! It is currently very hard to make fine adjustments with the crop tool since both the border and the image moves. Keep the image still and make the border a 1 px dashed line, please!
I'd oppose that one, and replace it with crop while zoomed.
Fixed auto sync behaviour. If I select a number of photos in the film strip, activate auto sync and hit + + + + to increase the exposure by 0,4 stops I want the exposure for each photo to be increased relative to whatever it was before, not relative to 0.
I'd oppose that one too, and replace it with relative adjustments available in Develop as well as they already are in Quick Develop.
Crop while zoomed would be a great thing. The main thing is we get finer control with the crop tool. Working with scanned negatives for instance where some photos have ended up with thin black borders, it is very hard to make precise adjustments with the current tool. My current workaround is to lower my mouse sensitivity (have a quick button on the mouse for that) and then do the cropping. But I shouldn't need to do that ...
About the relative adjustments, I think it would be counterintuitive if pulling the exposure slider on one photo to 1,0 would make another photo go from 0,3 to 1,3. The keyboard shortcuts feel more relative in nature, IMHO. =)
areohbee wrote:
7. Two big thumbs up. And, doing something with auto-sync so its not so easy to use by accident - i.e. make it more clear when its on and when its off and when multiple photos are being adjusted, and when only one, and how to turn it on and how to turn it off... And, make all the relative adjustment increments minimal. I dont want to adjust highlight recovery in units of 5! Or temperature by 310 degrees at a time.
Yes, the auto-sync state could be clearer. But when I adjust temperature with the keyboard it is either in steps of 50 or 200, depending on if I hold shift or not... Are you getting steps of 310??
Keith Achorn wrote:
I agree with your desire for Panorama Stitching and HDR within Lightroom rather than having to send it to Photoshop and back. I'd prefer to stick with the original DNGs through the whole workflow and not have to convert it to TIFF to achieve these effects.
I would also add a couple of features that most other photo managers have: Geotagging and face recognition. I have been collecting track logs with a GPS logger since 2007, with the hopes of one day geotagging all my travel images. While there is good software out there that does this (Geosetter), it seems like a task Lightroom should handle. Geotagging and face recognition are already features built into Aperture, Picasa, and even Adobe Photoshop Elements. There is no reason Lightroom couldn't integrate them as well.
And I would also like to see Picasa Web added as a publishable site (like Flickr). Or better yet, a public API so that any web developers can integrate with Lightroom, rather than a set number being chosen by Adobe.
I'm a tagging maniac, so yes, geotagging would be very nice. I guess face recognition would be pretty nice too. =)
Highlight recovery is 5 (single-arrow) in both quick-develop and develop via keyboard. I'd like this to be 1 in both cases (maybe have keyboard modifier for turbo recovery to satisfy those who like it more heavy handed..., or vice versa: keyboard modifier for the lighter touch)
Temperature is 310 (single-arrow) in quick-develop and 50 in develop via keyboard. I'd like them to be 50 in both cases. Again, keyboard modifier would be ok for those who want hypercooling or incendiaries... or vice versa...
davidnaylor83 wrote:
I just put together my wish list for Lightroom 4.
http://davidnaylor.org/blog/2011/01/wish-list-for-lightroom-4/
What do you think? Did I miss anything important out?
I would think you are about a year too late! I imagine Lr4 is pretty well defined by now. So start listing stuff for LR5. ![]()
bob Frost
bob frost wrote:
I would think you are about a year too late! I imagine Lr4 is pretty well defined by now. So start listing stuff for LR5.
bob Frost
That may well be the case. Then label this my LR5 wish list! =)
Edit: Actually, I doubt that, considering how much usually differs just between the different beta releases.
My wishlist:
1. I'm surprised no one mentioned layer adjustments. I was pretty impressed with the way Bibble 5 makes adjustments. You draw a selection, set feathering (already more precise than the adjustment brushes) and within that selection/layer you can alter anything. You can even have different WB or NR settings in the same picture. I find that insanely powerful. On the other hand, Bibble will never have me as a customer since they keep refusing adding DNG support.
2. Better perspective adjustment tools. Having to "guess" horizontal/vertical/rotation is not fun. Have a look at DXO and its keystoning tool. It's relatively simple to implement and a huge timesaver.
3. Focus check, Capture One style. That should be simple too. Bonus points for the ability to filter images by focus (rejecting out-of-focus images would become a snap)
About face recognition, I tried it in both Aperture and Picasa and I wasn't impressed. When you have a really big collection of photos, it's quite a pain. I guess it can be made to work by setting tresholds - tag only faces that take more than 20% of the screen and are in focus for example.
Gaspyy wrote:
1. I'm surprised no one mentioned layer adjustments. I was pretty impressed with the way Bibble 5 makes adjustments. You draw a selection, set feathering (already more precise than the adjustment brushes) and within that selection/layer you can alter anything. You can even have different WB or NR settings in the same picture. I find that insanely powerful.
+1: stackable locals, or layers...
Gaspyy wrote:
Bibble will never have me as a customer since they keep refusing adding DNG support.
Didn't save your original raws? - Oops... Bet you dont make that mistake anymore (or do you....?). For those of you who don't know, Bibble does support camera-generated DNGs, just not Adobe-converted DNGs.
Gaspyy wrote:
2. Better perspective adjustment tools. Having to "guess" horizontal/vertical/rotation is not fun. Have a look at DXO and its keystoning tool. It's relatively simple to implement and a huge timesaver.
DxO is nice in that regard, but its not a big deal to me.
Gaspyy wrote:
3. Focus check, Capture One style. That should be simple too. Bonus points for the ability to filter images by focus (rejecting out-of-focus images would become a snap)
That would be a very useful feature, although I'm not sure I'd trade better control over color, and better locals with better masking... to get it.
Gaspyy wrote:
About face recognition, I tried it in both Aperture and Picasa and I wasn't impressed. When you have a really big collection of photos, it's quite a pain. I guess it can be made to work by setting tresholds - tag only faces that take more than 20% of the screen and are in focus for example.
These sort of convenience features are not where I hope Adobe spends their effort. Not that convenience isn't important, but just not as high a priority for me as what seem to me to be the more "meat & taters" features...
R
I imagine the panorma function could function as follows:
Once the user has selected the raw images and hits the "create panorama" button, lightroom converts the raws to rbg in the background, stiches the panorma and creates the necessary masks for seamless blending. It then stores the coordinates of the stiched individual pics and the masks in the catalogue. It also saves the rgb file as a preview in the ACR cache, just like a rgular raw preview file. Every time the user selects the "panorama file", lightroom re-renders the basic raw files, applies the previously generated panorama coordiantes and masks to the rendered files and displays the stiched image. For develop function the individual raw files of the panorma are syncronised, so all adjustments are exectued equally on all pano files.
hsdufhsjkdf wrote:
I imagine the panorma function could function as follows:
Once the user has selected the raw images and hits the "create panorama" button, lightroom converts the raws to rbg in the background, stiches the panorma and creates the necessary masks for seamless blending. It then stores the coordinates of the stiched individual pics and the masks in the catalogue. It also saves the rgb file as a preview in the ACR cache, just like a rgular raw preview file. Every time the user selects the "panorama file", lightroom re-renders the basic raw files, applies the previously generated panorama coordiantes and masks to the rendered files and displays the stiched image. For develop function the individual raw files of the panorma are syncronised, so all adjustments are exectued equally on all pano files.
Sounds great!
I would like to see further improvements to the import module (let me know if you can do some of this stuff):
Rory
Everything mentioned would be nice. But I think the point is not to overload LR with (undoubtly) useful features, but to provide flexible platform for others who wish to add features. Like Photoshop.
I'm extensively using HDRs, panoramas and focus blending, but I have special and very good software for them, and it's a waste of LR Team time to try to match with specialized programs. Palliatives are not the solution.
So my wishlist is:
The most important things imho are the first three.
Yeah, I know I'm asking a lot of coding, but we're in «Features Requests», isn't we? Trust me, building above-listed core features will empower LR workflow much better than yet another ugly implementation of HDR.
I'm not trying to turn LR into Photoshop Lite, but surely there are couple of useful PS things LR could implement not loosing it identity.
"I'm not trying to turn LR into Photoshop Lite, but surely there are couple of useful PS things LR could implement not loosing it identity."
LR may not want to do this but we can bet it's competitors do. If LR isn't carefull it'll turn into Aperture or Capture One lite.
Speaking of Aperture, I'm starting to hink it's basic framework makes more sense long term. For instance:
Being able to group folders and collections together. In LR it's redundant to have to look in two separate locations to find photos, and it frustrating that there are things that only work in folders and not collections. It's also annoying having collections only arrangable alphabetically. Please allow us group and order our "projects" as we see fit.
I don't hate LR's modular approach, but really, keystrokes and shortcuts should be consistent across the program. Having to note what module one is in before being able to do a module-specific key command is maddening.
---
I'd also like someone to figure out a good way of coding/grouping images that belong together, ie, panos, HDR, focus stacks, etc. And please make it work acorss folders/collections/modules, etc.
Surely LR needs serious refactoring and usability tuning. Different keystrokes in different circumstances are called «modal error» in usability and one should avoid it in interface design whenever it possible.
The question is: whether Adobe will give up all those things in favor of Photoshop, as mentioned above by Keith Achorn.
s.mahn wrote:
I'd also like someone to figure out a good way of coding/grouping images that belong together, ie, panos, HDR, focus stacks, etc. And please make it work acorss folders/collections/modules, etc.
I use stacks for this kind of thing, but not attending to stacks in collections is a huge glaring omission. Lucky for me, folders are my primary basis for organization - I mostly use collections for to-do lists and export lists..., and since all my export plugins are "stack position aware" its not such a big problem, but its still a problem, or at least it was:
DevMeta supports stack position as metadata, so you can always use it to limit collections to top-of-stack. This is a very handy workaround.
Rob
Yes the export into CS5 and loosing LR adjustments is a pain you have to create a new Tiff each time.
You can open image as smart object in PS and then add layers. LR ajustments will be preserved. But there are limitations: if you have to make heavy retouch like cloning or morphing, you have to rasterize smart object. Personally I can't imaging completely seamless and reversible LR-PS workflow.
I would like to see GPU acceleration in LR4. I have tried Capture One 6 and it reacts in realtime to any slider movement. Much faster than without OpenCL and faster than ACR/Lightroom. ACR/Lightroom is "ok", but not as smooth/fast onscreen as Capture One. And if you have a live preview on a secondary monitor, it gets really slow and does not react very fast to slider movements. I can remember comments from Adobe that the GPUs are bad at some operations and of course I believe them, because they are the experts and I`m not. But since I saw how much speed improvement Capture One got by OpenCL, I guess it could help LR/ACR as well. BTW, I`m using a Quad Q6600 at 2,8 GHZ, 8GB RAM and a GTX 470 (which is not much used by LR
)
Another feature request: I`m using a Wacom tablet. If I make small corrections for example to exposure, I have to move my pen by a millimeter sometimes. I need a way to do that correction with a greater pen movement. I know that the Intuos 4 has a precision mode, which does just that as far as I know. But I have an Intuos 2.
I want soft proofing so bad, I didn't even upgrade to lr3, because the changes they did make meant so little in comparison to it.
Please Adobe, if you're reading this...SOFT PROOFING PUH-LEEZ!
Additionally, it would be very useful to be able to embed watermarks that are visible to printing services, but not visible when viewing files on screen. I don't know if that's even possible, but it would help photographers who want to provide the files to our clients, but don't want them to have unlimited usage. They can enjoy the photos on their computers, they could print too, but the printing services would be limited by whatever copyright limitations the photographer places on the invisible watermark. For example, I might put something like:
copyright 2011 Iconic Photography, Vancouver, Canada
This image may be reproduced to a maximum print size of 8" x 12"
Contact Iconic Photography at iconicphotography@emailservice.com for more information.
This would prevent clients from making their own albums or wall prints. Whaddaya say Adobe?
I think Alex nailed the essence, I'd like to see this as no 1 priority:
"But I think the point is not to overload LR with (undoubtly) useful features, but to provide flexible platform for others who wish to add features. Like Photoshop.
So my wishlist is:
* Real and flexible plugins API. Not restricted, as in current state."
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