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Nikon D7000 mov file canot play RT with MPE

Feb 3, 2011 3:38 AM

Please need help. My nikon D7000 mov file(H.264/MPEG-4 AVC) canot be played RT in MPE. my system specs is i7 2.8ghz, 12GB RAM, Geforce GTX 285, editing mode and presets is DSLR 1080p 23.98 which is same on D7000 file. MPE enabled. When i import the native file from camera, indeed i copied all file to hard drive which is also RAID0 configured, then import to the bin and when i place in the timeline it struggle to play RT just after 20sec. I have heard a lot about RT playback in MPE for DSLR files, where i am going wrong what is the way to have right workflow, i do not want to transcode the original file.

3581 Views 27 Replies Latest reply: Jim Simon, Mar 9, 2012 9:19 AM

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1. Harm Millaard,

Feb 3, 2011 5:33 AM in reply to hectordsilva

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PC or MAC?

On PC get rid of that MOV container, because the QuiRcktime codec cripples PR to use 32 bit mode.

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2. Jim Simon,

Feb 3, 2011 9:03 AM in reply to hectordsilva

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For the record, hardware acceleration doesn't help at all with simple playback. Only certain effects and such are accelerated. The CPU is still the biggest factor in smooth playback with such heavily compressed files.

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3. hectordsilva,

Feb 5, 2011 9:11 AM in reply to Jim Simon

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Hi, its PC on windows 7 64bit.
For an editor, the 1st requirement is RT playback of media. I have read from adobe, edit DSLR file natively and can edit RED 4K file with couple more layes.
But in my case an simple QT H.264 small size file is struggling to play.

HI Jim (For the record, hardware acceleration doesn't help at all with simple playback. Only certain effects and such are accelerated. The CPU is still the biggest factor in smooth playback with such heavily compressed files).
But this same file plays back smoothly on windows media player, my step is to work on original file & avoid transcoding to maintain quality and time.
Well i say again for editor the 1st thing RT palyback is imp., i understand to render if i use FX or compositing.

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4. Harm Millaard,

Feb 5, 2011 9:15 AM in reply to hectordsilva

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See #1.

Get rid of that QT format.

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5. Ann Bens,

Feb 5, 2011 9:50 AM in reply to hectordsilva

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Have you updated Premiere to 5.0.3.

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6. Jim Simon,

Feb 5, 2011 10:02 AM in reply to hectordsilva

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this same file plays back smoothly on windows media player

That's often true, but it doesn't really matter. Premiere Pro is the editor, that's the one you need to play it smoothly. And for that, you are largely dependant on the CPU.

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7. hectordsilva,

Feb 6, 2011 2:54 AM in reply to Jim Simon

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yes its been updated to 5.0.3. Thats right my CPU usage jumps upto 80%, but i would'nt understand, how the same clip plays in WMP smoothly without heavy CPU usage and struggle in PP CS5. How this file donot need to take care of QT file or the QT container, how it manages to paly perfect in Media player. There is no way to integrate this this 2 prog. so atleast i can play in RT.
Thanx

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8. Harm Millaard,

Feb 6, 2011 3:23 AM in reply to hectordsilva

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Compare fuel consumption of a car to the CPU load on your PC.

Now, if you drive your Porsche to the shopping mall, adhering strictly to the speed limits, your fuel consumption will be pretty low. That is what WMP does.

Now, on the other hand, take a test driver, who has to really test that same Porsche on the Hockenheim racing circuit and putting the car through all its paces, accelerating to top speed, drifting through corners, braking heavily and accelerating again. The fuel consumption with be way higher. That is what PR does.

In your case, you have a very complex codec, you have destroyed the 64 bit nature of PR by using a QT MOV wrapper, so you have, to stay in the analogy of the Porsche, effectively disabled all the gears except the first gear, and you wonder how come that the test driver gets around the circuit faster than you do. You have in fact degraded your Porsche (PR) to function as a 50 year old Beetle.

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9. ExactImage,

Feb 6, 2011 6:46 AM in reply to Harm Millaard

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I can understand your frustration when the movie plays well in one app (media player) and not in PP.

The easiest way around this is to turn the playback quality to 1/2 and set the playback size to 50%. If it still doesn't playback full speed then set the playback resolution to 1/4.

When ever you pause it will go back to full res (subject to that being your chosen setting).

Failing that - RENDER it

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10. hectordsilva,

Feb 6, 2011 10:17 PM in reply to hectordsilva

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OK Thanx, i got the point of Porsche & Beetle, PP is not allowed to use its power to the core. Now lets get back to work. If i have to convert or transcode native file using adobe media encoder, what preset would be best for quality & same time plays well with preimere. I tried most of option, out of which MPEG2 only plays well(scrubbing, JKL usage etc) but i have read MPEG2 usage GOP which degrades. I have lots of option in QT like DNxHD, uncompressed AVI, but as U mentioned i will avoid QT for its 32bit limitation.Well can i know, whats the PP its own native file format to work on PC, e.g. Apple has prores, while AVID has DNxHD, so what is for PP.
Also, has U suggested to reduce the resolution & size, i prefer full quality. full screen since it gives me the feel of edit & to decided if the need to keep the shot or delete.
So finally keeping my same system(PC) what will be the best workflow to convert the files of D7000.
Thanks U all

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11. Ann Bens,

Feb 7, 2011 3:22 AM in reply to hectordsilva

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Have a look at NeoScene from Cineform.

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12. MikieZZ,

Feb 11, 2011 2:21 PM in reply to Harm Millaard

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Harm -

I also have a D7000 and would like to know if you have a recommended proceedure for getting rid of the MOV container?

Thanks,

Mike

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13. Jim Simon,

Feb 11, 2011 2:38 PM in reply to MikieZZ

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Ideally you'll want to edit the original camera media. If that camera shoots MOV files, edit them. If you want to not use MOV, write to Nikon and let them know that MOV is a Mac-centric, often problematic and somewhat limiting container for their video format. Suggest they use something else.

Or, try another camera.

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14. Steve Landon-Smyth,

Apr 12, 2011 11:50 AM in reply to hectordsilva

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Hello,

Excuss my ignorance, but what do you refer too with "MPE"?
I was a bit worried when I first read this thread as I too have a Nikon D7000 (D7k) and need to edit the h.264 MOV files.
I know your example is using a PC, but I wanted to share my experence editing these files on a Mac Book Pro (MBP).

System config = MBP 17", 2.3GHz Quad-core i7, 8GB SDRAM, 512GB SSD
Software = Adobe CS5 Production Premium (Bridge, Premiere Pro), Quick Time player
Camera = Nikon D7000
All software and firmware on all components = up to date.

File ingest = Connect D7000 to MBP via USB, Import pictures from camera via Bridge
File preview = Fist in Bridge, then opened full preview in Quick Time
New project and new sequence in Premiere = use Premiere canned HDSLR preset 1080p24 (23.98)
Drag MOV file into sequence window.

That's it. Everything worked fine for me. (Adobe CS5 Production Premium, Nikon D7000, Apple Mac Book Pro) = Rocks!

Sounds like your machine is fast enough. Make sure your RAID drives are all 7200rpm or faster. If your project files are on same HD as OS, you may be experencing contention, which in turn could slow down our system. My SSD drive is super fast. Also make sure you're not running any other Memory intensive apps on your system. The apps do not have to be running to use up valubale system resourses. Many Windows apps load tons of DLL's in memory which run all the time. Apps like SQL Server or many DAW's on the market.

Let us know how things turn out.

Good Luck!

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15. Bill Hunt,

Apr 12, 2011 12:05 PM in reply to Steve Landon-Smyth

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Welcome to the forum.

MPE = Mercury Playback Engine. For more detail, see the links in this ARTICLE.

The MPE will ONLY be available with CUDA-enabled nVidia cards.

Hope that helps, and nice to see that the Nikon material is working well for you.

Good luck,

Hunt

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16. Todd_Kopriva,

Aug 18, 2011 12:24 PM in reply to Bill Hunt

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For others coming to this thread, here's a workaround for the playback problems with Nikon D7000 footage:
"Nikon D7000 footage stutters on playback in Adobe Premiere Pro CS5.5"

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17. 50 Hungry Lions,

Mar 7, 2012 11:03 AM in reply to Todd_Kopriva

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Todd

This issue is still ongoing with nothing but a workaround. Is it really that hard of a fix? CS6 will be coming out this year, is this issue going to be fixed before that or are we going to have to buy cs6 to fix it? It has been 10 months at least since Adobe was made aware of this problem. How does it take that long to fix this issue?

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18. BrightlandCo,

Mar 7, 2012 2:20 PM in reply to hectordsilva

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This bug also affects the new Canon 5D Mark III .mov files. The workaround also works, thanks for the tip, Todd. Batch renaming files while a workaround, makes it impossible to play the files with Windows Media Player without renaming them back, etc. The other workaround is to use CS5- does not have this bug. Would it be possible to provide a fix by March 22? (5D Mark III launch)? Otherwise, shoot me an NDA so I can access your source code - this looks like a quick fix.

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19. medeamajic,

Mar 7, 2012 2:53 PM in reply to 50 Hungry Lions

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I think the camera manufactures need to ditch the stupid .mov extensions. Have you bitched at them yet or just Adobe? I will admit Adobe should try to make it work but so should the camera manufactures

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20. BrightlandCo,

Mar 7, 2012 4:25 PM in reply to medeamajic

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MOV is a Quicktime container, MPG is an MPEG container- different file formats, not just extension. The workaround is a hack (and relies on the file loader to inspect the binary content to make the right decision). The only way to deliver H.264 with uncompressed audio (AFAIK) is in the MOV container (MP4, MTS, require compressed audio). It's technically possible with AVI, but currently unsupported.

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21. BrightlandCo,

Mar 7, 2012 8:18 PM in reply to hectordsilva

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Add the Nikon D4 to the list of cameras affected by this issue (tested).

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22. Jim Simon,

Mar 7, 2012 9:44 PM in reply to BrightlandCo

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(MP4, MTS, require compressed audio)

MP4 can actually contain Uncompressed 16 bit audio. M2TS can contain LPCM.

But the best solution, in my view, is for camera makers to start using the MXF format in the manner for which it was designed - one file for video, audio, timecode and other metadata. Fully renamable or movable without breaking any functionality.

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23. medeamajic,

Mar 7, 2012 10:27 PM in reply to Jim Simon

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I agree that the camera manufactures should try harder to make things easier. I am not saying that Adobe shouldn't try harder as well. As they saying goes it takes two to tango : )

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24. BrightlandCo,

Mar 7, 2012 10:51 PM in reply to Jim Simon

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Jim Simon wrote:
MP4 can actually contain Uncompressed 16 bit audio. M2TS can contain LPCM.

LPCM in MP4? Any tools to create it? From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_container_formats it appears there are two lossless formats, but it doesn't show LPCM. Looks like both TS and M2TS support LPCM. Any tools which can losslessly rewrap the MOV video & audio (last I checked ffmpeg only supported compressed audio for MP4)? In any case, another time wasting task that shouldn't be necessary.

Since CS5 works OK, it's clear something got broken in CS5.5. Hopefully the bug will be fixed before the 5D3 hits the street (as a developer- it sounds like an easy fix; QA testing might give some managers pause, though it should be possible to revert the patch if issues are found in the field).

For a pro-sumer camera (that's how the 5D3 is classed), the MOV container is fine. The extra flexibility of MXF for pros is a negative for a consumer product due to the extra complexity of separate files. Being able to select in camera which output format to use (MOV or MXF) could make everyone happy. Can any app read H.264 in MXF?

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25. Jim Simon,

Mar 8, 2012 10:09 AM in reply to BrightlandCo

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For a pro-sumer camera (that's how the 5D3 is classed), the MOV container is fine.

I would disagree. MOV is a Mac-centric, problematic, and currently limited 32 bit container. It's use should be abandoned entirely in favor of MXF. By hardware makers, by both PC and Mac users, by broadcast facilities and post houses, by stock fotoage companies, etc.

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26. BrightlandCo,

Mar 8, 2012 11:28 AM in reply to Jim Simon

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MOV is not going away any time soon; one would figure Canon would have used an MP4 container if it supported LPCM. I haven't found any tools which can use LPCM in an MP4 container. Do you know of one? An MP4 spec which shows the necessary info to set up the headers, and stream, etc., for LPCM in MP4?

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27. Jim Simon,

Mar 9, 2012 9:19 AM in reply to BrightlandCo

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MOV is not going away any time soon

Probably true, but regrettably so.

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