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Your disk copy of image was changed since last opened or saved (Mac OS)

Jan 3, 2012 12:33 PM

  Latest reply: Chris Cox, Oct 21, 2012 1:00 PM
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 20, 2011 10:35 AM   in reply to BlueRox

    InDesign does have some known problems where it holds files open and modifies files when you don't think it would.

    And Photoshop and InDesign share almost no code.  They even use different OS APIs (Carbon vs Cocoa) in CS5.

     

    But beyond known bugs in other applications, we have never reproduced the problem.

    We've spent a lot of time investigating, and are pretty sure that Photoshop is doing the right thing and detecting external modifications correctly.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 20, 2011 11:51 AM   in reply to Marian Driscoll

    No i have not posted on the apple site, and frankly, why would i? what would they do about it? they don't make Photoshop. there are no other problems with our system, all the other programs work fine w/ Snow Leopard. Photoshop has problems. It is irksome that adobe has the people posting on this forum doing backflips with reinstalls and then continually posts responses to try to diminish the problem, like "we've never reproduced this" and my personal favorite, "What is it about your system that causes this problem, when millions of other systems don't experience the same problem?". Maybe because all those millions don't have time to post on an adobe forum where questions are rarely answered to anyone's satisfaction. Has adobe installed CS5 w/ Snow Leopard on a Mac? If not, then they aren't trying. The issue popped up right away when we did it. No mystery there.

     
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    Sep 20, 2011 12:53 PM   in reply to BlueRox

    I remember when they used to teach the scientific method in schools. Now people are fighting to be able to teach about Jesus lizards. The absence of reason in this forum discussion is not surprising.

     

    If Photoshop worked fine for you in 10.5 and now does not work in 10.6, what evidence do you have that it is not Apple's fault? The variable in your test appears to be Apple. Could it be possible that Apple's new OS broke something that worked fine before? Could it be possible that you have a different system setting for some background process in the newer OS? Could it be possible that you have a new process in 10.6 that was not running in 10.5?  Could it be possible that you have a different network setup? Could it be possible that the majority of users do not have this problem and that you have something quirky on your system that needs to be identified?

     

    That, frankly, is why you should not limit your reasoning. 

     

    kate@pick2.com wrote:

     

    ...Has adobe installed CS5 w/ Snow Leopard on a Mac?...

    No. Never. They only run their software on an Amiga 4000 computer.

     

    Oy. What kind of silly question was that?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 20, 2011 1:25 PM   in reply to Marian Driscoll

    Marian, are you experiencing this problem? Do you work for adobe? are you trying to solve this problem? why waste time "reasoning" that apple will fix an adobe product? the issue is happening with an adobe product, that is the only evidence available. only reason i posted today was that when looking to solve same issue others were experiencing i hoped that mentioning the InDesign part might help us all. but Chris pointed out that was not something they want to consider as pertinent. i don't agree, but what can you do. and re my silly question, how would i know they run software on an Amiga 4000 computer? when our clients want something to be used on a pc, i set up a testing environment so i can experience exactly what they do so they won't have any frustration with what we give them as a finished product. they don't know all the tech stuff, and we take great pains to make sure they don't feel stupid if they do have a problem. we apologize even if it's not our fault, and we work to fix it. that's just customer service, and empathy for people's busy lives and work stress. is this forum just a place to demonstrate superior arcane technical knowledge rather than solving a problem that is interfering with some of our jobs?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 20, 2011 1:35 PM   in reply to BlueRox

    Kate, you really need to read this entire thread to understand.

     

    You may also want to read this one too.

    http://forums.adobe.com/thread/370206

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 20, 2011 1:35 PM   in reply to BlueRox

    We've been installing and running Photoshop CS5 (and previous versions) on Snow Leopard since before Snow Leopard was released to the public.

    Again, we have never reproduced this problem.  There is something different about your system that makes it show the problem -- while millions of other users running the same OS and application don't see such a problem.  But we don't know what is different about your system.  We've tried all our guesses, and customer suggestions, about what might cause the problem - and yet we still can't reproduce it.

     

    Why does Photoshop show this error?  Because Photoshop is one of the few applicaitons to check for such things.  Should we stop warning you about changes to your file just because a few people have problems on their systems: no.

     

    We're not trying to diminish the problem - just explain why we can't wave a magic wand and fix your system.

     

    And because this problem only affects a few people, the odds of it being a bug in Photoshop itself are pretty low.

    Usually when issues like this come up, everyone has some third party plugin, or system utility installed that causes the problem -- and they forgot about installing those things.

    Once someone figures out what factor/software caused the issue - then we can work with other customers affected to see if they have the same cause, or possibly a different cause.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 21, 2011 2:28 PM   in reply to caligula1

    I don't know if this will help or not, but upgrading Suitcase Fusion 3 to ver. 14.1.1 did the trick for me...finally!!!

    And I also agree with everybody, it is extremely frustrating!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 21, 2011 6:04 PM   in reply to steve_zimmer

    Thanks for posting Steve! This Suitcase update appears to have fixed BOTH the Photoshop saving issue and InDesign graphics linking issue. Yay!!!

     
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    Sep 21, 2011 6:55 PM   in reply to BlueRox

    Interesting contrast to post #98 and #101.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 22, 2011 6:09 AM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Through application of the scientific method we have observed that the fine folks that make Suitcase know how to fix Photoshop and InDesign problems better than Adobe. 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 23, 2011 11:47 AM   in reply to Marian Driscoll

    Ha! Funny stuff here. Upgrading from Suitcase 14 to 14.1.1 caused the problem on my system. Computers are evil. We know this!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 23, 2011 3:41 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    @Chris Just letting you know that one more person is getting this message when saving. Plus clipboard issues from Illustrator to Photoshop.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 23, 2011 3:48 PM   in reply to joseph_is

    What "clipboard issues"?

     

    And the times we've seen this when saving it was due to third party plugin bugs (like Suitcase), bugs in the OS file system code (SMB to a server), or bugs in the server itself (XiNet mostly).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 23, 2011 3:59 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Re: Clipboard - http://forums.adobe.com/thread/906012

     

    Any suggestions on troubleshooting the saving issue?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 23, 2011 4:49 PM   in reply to joseph_is

    Suggestions: give us more information.

    Are you saving to a file server? If so, stop that.

    Are you saving to a different file system (non-MacOS)?

    Are you using any kind of utility to modify the Finder, save dialogs, or other file system behavior?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 27, 2011 8:24 AM   in reply to caligula1

    Several people here get the same problem.

     

    I can consistently recreate the 'The disk copy of "filename.psd" was changed since...'. I am using a 3 month old iMac 27" i7 and CS5.5. The only additional software is for a Wacom pad, Suitcase Fusion 3 and Transmit FTP.

     

    It makes no difference if I am saving over the network or to my own hard drive.

     

    I haven't been able to make it happen if I create a new file, work on it and then save, only if I open old files which pre date CS5.5.

     

    Does anyone have any more ideas? I don't mind pressing 'OK' one extra time, but I don't want to lose work!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 27, 2011 4:28 PM   in reply to JezDown

    As mentioned above, Suitcase had a bug in their plugin that would modify files after they were written.

    Try disabling the Suitecase plugin for Photoshop.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 28, 2011 4:09 PM   in reply to caligula1

    I've read all the post hoping some constant would show up in them but nothing. I've been having the same problem for 2 months. I keep saving anyway. I am not on a server, I do use Time Machine (which I have for much longer than the problem). I use Photoshop CS5 on Lion. I do use Suitcase and that is up to date. The Lion System is the only change I've made to any preferences on my entire Mac including software preferences for more than two months. It just showed up one day. Another quirk is that some Photoshop docs are having pixelation problems. I've done a system ulitilization check on all my disks and no problems there. My only guess is there's a communication problem between Adobe Photoshop and Apple's new system. It's a guess because not all of us are so saavy to understand the errors. But, I would like to add me to the list of people who are still begging for a solution. It's not so uncommon as some above posters have suggested.

     

    Please keep us informed.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 28, 2011 5:54 PM   in reply to eubean525

    Have you tried disabling Suitcase? Maybe they haven't really fixed the bug.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 28, 2011 6:54 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Font management is a necessary evil. Disabling is not an option to fix this problem. What do you recommend as an alternative to Suitcase? Thanks.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 28, 2011 8:20 PM   in reply to BlueRox

    I don't use Suitcase and it was still happened here. Not convinced that's

    the bug. Also working all locally.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 28, 2011 9:35 PM   in reply to BlueRox

    First, you need to try disabling suitcase to see if it is the cause.  Then we can talk to the makers of suitcase to get their bug fixed.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 28, 2011 9:36 PM   in reply to joseph_is

    joseph - yes, there could be other causes, but we need your help to figure out what is causing it on your machine.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 28, 2011 10:16 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Chris - A few things that might help: 1) I'm using dropbox, but do not have

    any Ps files running off it. 2) I've been running Spotify. I quit the

    program and haven't noticed the disk copy warning since. 3) I've been

    heavily using and updating smart objects between Ai and Ps. I noticed most

    occurrences if the disk copy warning on those days of back and forth between

    programs.

     

    Should I run some tests using Spotify?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 28, 2011 11:46 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Like I posted earlier I have the exact same issue in Photoshop, I've never used Suitecase though.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 29, 2011 3:56 AM   in reply to Erik De Monsters

    And i don't use Spotify either. Never did used it or installed it.

    Next, i don't use ps files betweine Adobe programs. Just in bridge/photoshop and i still have the issue

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 29, 2011 7:29 AM   in reply to Chris Cox

    It's odd, because the Suitcase update Steve recommended appeared to have fixed the problem until several days later when working on Photoshop files from another source, problem recurred. However, only got prompt once on each Ps file and InDesign was not affected, as it had been earlier.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 30, 2011 1:23 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Chris, you have got to be the least helpful company rep on a forum that I have ever seen. First of all, your comment "If it were really widespread, we would have seen it ourselves, or heard about it from more customers" is wrong on so many levels. A) If you haven't seen all of the errors that Photoshop responds to, then your development team is not doing their job designing their testing rigs. B) It should only take one unhappy customer for you to want to help and make changes when necessary. There is no magic "well, when enough people complain, we'll look into it," number. That's a lazy excuse.

     

    I work at a commercial photography studio with about 12 seats of PS, and we have all encountered these errors. We have a range of Mac Pro towers from 2008-2011, some machines work from a server, and several work exclusively on local files. I haven't posted on the forums until now because I'd already seen how unhelpful you are, and looked elsewhere for help. Today was just the last straw.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 30, 2011 3:12 PM   in reply to james_mckenzie

    James - please read the entire thread before responding.  Your insults are completely off base.

     

    We have looked into this problem. We've spent a lot of time on this, and found nothing except a third party plugin bug. We've suggested things to look for, asked for more information, and so far not received any information to reproduce problem or isolate the cause.

     

    And yes, if it was a widespread problem, we would be hearing from a lot more people.  We've been developing this software for a while, and know how the customer response differs between rare and widespread problems.

     

    If you are seeing this problem on several of your systems, you need to answer: what is different about those systems from a clean OS install and a clean Photoshop install?  Why are those machines different from the machines of the millions of users who are not seeing this problem?  Many users say "nothing", until they remember that plugin, or utility, or OS setting, or haxie, or whatever actually caused the problem.

     

    Yes, we'd love to help every customer solve their problems.  And for problems we can identify in some way - we help.  But if the problem only happens on a few machines, and we can't reproduce it, and the customer can't help us figure out how to reproduce it -- then we're stuck.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 30, 2011 3:46 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    I read the entire thread, I simply chose to hit reply on one of your earliest and least useful responses.

     

    To give you more insight into our machines... As I stated before, we have a range of machines. All of them, at one point, were fresh clean installs. And most of them, during troubleshooting at one time or another have had clean OS installs, and clean CS installs. Of course, they're all different in some way-- different users, different models, etc. But no one at the studio really uses any plugins, no Extensis Suitcase, etc. What we do use are pretty standard Mac OS features, like Time Machine.

     

    Several of our users (our retouching department) work from a server, which of course, you don't bother trying to support AT ALL. I understand that there are a zillion variables in server deployments, but at some point you really need to face the fact that your high-end users work on servers and working locally is a ridiculous proposition for an efficient workflow, as well as a nightmare for asset management.

     

    Furthermore, our users (our photographers, mainly) who work mostly on local drives run into these errors as well. The reason I was troubleshooting today was because of a fresh install of CS5 (albeit not a fresh OSX install, but honestly, do you expect me to reinstall the OS for every CS upgrade? Not happening). The photographer was working on a local file, and consistently getting the 'file changed' errors. The only other processes running on his system were basic OS operations (mds, time machine).

     

    The basic problem I have with your methods is you seem to think that PS seeing the file change and reporting it is a 'good enough' feature. But it's not. If Photoshop sees that change, why can't it determine what changed it and decide whether it's a problem or not? What is happening in practice is that your alert system is crying wolf all day long for things that are probably completely innocuous. And I do not accept your defense of 'something else is doing that, it's not our problem.' It's lazy. Try harder.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 30, 2011 5:03 PM   in reply to james_mckenzie

    When Photoshop sees that the time stamp is changed - it has no other information. The OS provides information about the file, but nothing about the history of changes to the file.

     

    So we're telling you that we found a potential problem, and we're telling you everything we know about it. The OS simply doesn't provide more information (at least not without major modification).

    And the application can't determine if that is a problem or not.  Maybe it's harmless (backup software, Suitcase, server time offset), and maybe it's a problem (virus, other user) -- the application has no way of knowing that. The user has to determine what happened to know if the time difference is a problem or not.

     

    We've done our part of the troubleshooting.  I'm telling you what we found, and what we have to assume is the cause: something outside of Photoshop. So far there is no evidence that the problem is in Photoshop itself.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 30, 2011 5:15 PM   in reply to james_mckenzie

    Thanks James, you are right. Maybe they need some fresh horses  ....

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 30, 2011 6:31 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    First, you certainly have not done your part, because your users are angry, and because what you call good programming and good error reporting your users see as a problem. And even if there aren't a million of us complaining (which is a ludicrous way to gauge your problems, by the way), we've still spent thousands upon thousands of dollars on your software over the years and we deserve tom have our problem addressed wholeheartedly.

     

    Next, if you are telling me that backup software can be causing these errors (even Time Machine, which is integrated into the Mac OS you write your code for? Shame on you), you have FAR from done your part. Because you're basically telling me that to fix my problem I have to disable one of the features that is actually doing it's part to keep my files safe in order to let your software (which has no idea what its reporting) work smoother. That tells me you're not doing your job well at all.

     

    Finally, have you even considered that your way of handling saves and reporting time stamp changes is a fundamentally flawed system? I don't understand why it hasn't sunk in that there are hundreds of other pro-grade applications (from databases to 3D modeling software to OTHER PHOTO EDITING SOFTWARE) that NEVER show these kinds of messages, NEVER corrupt files and even work flawlessly on servers. Don't tell me that their software is inferior because they are overlooking potential problems.

     

    I'm calling you out, Chris. Step up your game.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 1, 2011 10:21 AM   in reply to caligula1

    I just thought that I would chime in here as I only just started having this problem myself. I get the error message when working in Photoshop with no other programs running on my machine. Also, if I save a file and leave it open in Photoshop overnight and then come back to it and hit the hot keys to save, I do not get this message. It only happens if I am actively editing the file in question. In my mind, this means that it has nothing to do with the system because why would the system behave differently depending on whether or not I am actively editing a file?

     

    Oh and I should add that I do not use Time Machine. I have never used it on this machine and it is "Off" in my System Preferences with no destination drive selected for it. It simply doesn't run on the machine that I am using and never has. I backup directly to a rugged LaCie drive using SuperDuper!.

     

    I am using a 2.66 GHz Intel Core i7 Macbook Pro with Lion and Adobe Photoshop CS5 Extended v 12.0 x 64. This started happening within the last week and I'm wondering if it has something to do with upgrading to Lion as this is the first I've used Photoshop since upgrading.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 1, 2011 11:13 AM   in reply to james_mckenzie

    No matter how much money you spend on a car -- the car maker can't do anything about the quality of the roads you choose to drive on.

     

    The Photoshop team has spent quite a bit of time on this issue, and found nothing in our code, and so far nothing in the OS.

    All we've found are external causes (plugins, server bugs, etc.).

     

    I understand that you're unhappy.  But the problem does not seem to be in Photoshop itself, and we can only fix Photoshop.  We've done our part (really, we've gone far beyond our part trying to help track down the causes).   And we can't even reproduce the problem without external factors known to have bugs in them.

     

    <sarcasm>

    And yes, we have wondered why we bother with so much error checking when some customers complain that Photoshop actually informs them about real problems.  It would be so much easier to ignore the problems and just hope your documents don't get overwritten or corrupted, and might sometimes save without errors.  I mean, imagine how much easier it would be building airplanes if you didn't have to worry about safety, comfort, or any of that "surviving the trip" stuff.

    </sarcasm>

     

    Yes, OSes have bugs.  And many times application developers can't work around those bugs in the OS and have to wait for the OS developers to fix the bugs in the OS.  If some part of the OS has bugs that get in the way of your work - yes, you may have to turn off that part of the OS, or ask the OS developer to fix the bugs.

     

    If you want us to do more research, then we need a way to reproduce the problem.  That means that you are going to have to do some troubleshooting on your system (one of the few that sees the problem) and tell everyone else what is different about your system that makes the problem happen.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 5:19 AM   in reply to Chris Cox

    I often see that the get info via Bridge/PS for the created date is not the same as what the OS (10.6.8) get info shows. I haven't noticed any variation in the modified date. Where does PS pull the timestamp from?

     

    thanks

     

    j

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 6:40 AM   in reply to james_mckenzie

    james_mckenzie wrote:

     

    ...I'm calling you out, Chris. Step up your game.

    I'm calling you out, James.

     

    Have you considered posting your log as Caligula1 did in post 61? Were you truly interested in giving full details about your problem?

     

    Chris is blind to your machine until you show it. Show it if you have game.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 6:54 AM   in reply to Marian Driscoll

    You're all going off like a bunch of school kids and I understand the frustration of both sides. The fact is, for no reason other than having switched over to Mac OS Lion, I'm getting the aforementioned message that we are all harping about on 2 of my Macs. My third Mac, which is still in Tiger system does not ignite that message to the very same files that are doing it on the Lion Macs. Not one update other than Lion has been made on either of my Macs.

     

    Instead of yelling at each other, maybe Apple and Adobe can speak to each other and iron this out. In the meantime, please can the condescension and, at least, recognize that the problem is occurring.

     

    This is what we, as innocent users who have no ability to correct the errors, are seeing:

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 7:02 AM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Car makers also don't say things like "we don't support driving on a highway, you should drive on local roads only" either. So a bad analogy all around, I'd say.

     

    The big problem here is that the error message does the user no good. He sees it and says "nope, I didn't change that file" and ignores the message. Which is, in a practical sense, exactly as good as a false positive, because he becomes conditioned to ignore the error message. Furthermore, Photoshop doesn't even know if it's a problem, it's just seeing a difference in a timestamp, right?

     

    I understand the reluctance to remove that error message. You're afraid that if you do, people will start having more corrupt files, and you no longer have an "I told you so" to throw in their face. You act like it's really coming from a place of "hey, we're just trying to protect you." But it's not. You're just covering your own neck.

     

    How about adding another filter to the timestamp game? If Photoshop detects a timestamp change AND the filesize is different, THEN you can give me a message...

    How about a secret file save operation? When you detect that change, why don't you (not warn us) save a copy of it anyway, and if the save operation works, that becomes the new file.

    All I want to see is uninterrupted saves. I'm not asking for a cure for cancer.

     

    I've got a way to reproduce the problem. Come hang out at our studio for a day.

     

    In the meantime, what particular logs would you like to see to help either reproduce or deduce the root of the problem? I already told one of the retouchers to let me know when he gets that error so I can get some info, but I want to make sure you have the info you think will help.

     
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    Oct 3, 2011 7:21 AM   in reply to eubean525

    Al, there is no yelling. No one is denying the problem. The constant message is that users need to explain what is different on their systems. Relatively few people are seeing this problem and each person has a different issue.

     

    This is not the only thread on this topic. Search the forum for similar discussions and additional remedies. This is not a Lion thing. It could have happened on your Tiger box too.

     
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