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Audition CS 5.5 and the future of Audition

Apr 14, 2011 12:18 PM

  Latest reply: therealdobro, May 15, 2012 10:48 AM
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 19, 2011 10:47 AM   in reply to _durin_

     

    I generally do not comment on big corporate forums, but this time I decided to participate. I hope my opinion will be taken into account.

     

    The matter is that Audition is often used by DSP engineers who do not deal with music/radio/broadcasting/etc, but work with sound and audio analysis in scientific purposes in process of DSP algorithms development, and in audio quality validation for different industries (voice communication, speech codecs, automotive, pro-/consumer, etc).

     

    These people silently use this tool and never appear at music communities/forums/etc., so Adobe team may not know about them. But you can see these people in every audio department of every company somehow involved in audio.

     

    Adobe Audition (and previously Cool Edit) is the only and the ultimate tool for these professionals. Such scientific features of Audition as filtering, signal/noise generation, extended spectral analysis, sample-precise editing, etc . are not replaceable by any other software. Other software editors are not suitable for these operations since they are designed mostly for music and simply do not have such extended tools that are absolutely necessary for the purposes described above.

     

    Lack of such tools as tone generation, noise generation, scientific filtering and others will not allow these engineers to upgrade. By the way, many of them are still using Cool Edit Pro because it is faster than Audition.

     

    I hope Adobe team cares about all its users and will take my scribble as a note in further development of Adobe Audition which is the greatest audio software.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 19, 2011 11:45 AM   in reply to Alex Radzishevsky

    Alex, as a long-time user of the software and member of related communities, I think I'll stick my nose out here to thank you for breaking your silence. and making a great point (and politely!).  Did you see the other thread concerning the release?  Durin invited feedback from the user community directly, as well as through a survey.  Perhaps you could get the word out to as many users you know as possible to let their voice be heard through this survey link:

    http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/auditionfeedback

     

    Meanwhile, AA3, or even 1.5, are great products for many things, and there's nothing wrong with sticking with them if they get the job done!  However, it's been a long time since I've done a job in 1.5 that I thought was faster.  But I know there are definitely some slicker spots.

     

    Good success to you, and thanks again for posting your point of view.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 19, 2011 11:59 AM   in reply to MusicConductor

    I also think Alex has made a very important point. Those of us who test and maintain audio hardware also need the reliable test tools that the software traditionally provided.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 20, 2011 4:47 PM   in reply to _durin_

    Hello,

     

    Will the new Audition 5.5 be able to take advantage of any I/O card installed on the system (Blackmagic, AJA, Matrox, etc) that will allow the video to playout to a client monitor?

     

    Thanks

    Ray

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 21, 2011 4:15 AM   in reply to Ray Tragesser

    Unfortunately no it won't. This has been on the requested feature list for some time as many of us working in sound post need external video playback.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 21, 2011 6:14 AM   in reply to ryclark

    Thats a real shame that Audition will not be able to playout video through a dedicated I/O card. That effectively eliminates it for any serious client session work relating to video post-production. Unless you like them looking over your shoulder at a small video clip on the screen. This is one of the main reasons why I never used Audition for much more than a Swiss army knife for file processing. The program is very nice and offers a tremendous bang for th buck. Not sure why Adobe is really advertising round tripping to Premiere Pro if there is no support for the same I/O hardware that is likely to be already installed on the system and being used with Premiere Pro. Hence the "Pro"

     

    Hopefully this is a high priority for version 6. If it is please contact to beta test that functionality.

     

    Ray

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 25, 2011 9:30 AM   in reply to _durin_

    Hi Durin - you describe Audition CS5.5's speed, arising out of its ability to take advantage of multi-core systems.  Nice.  But is it a 64-bit application now?  I'd like to get a Lexicon plugin (currently 32-bit) to use with Audition, but Lexicon are planning to release a 64-bit version fairly soon.  I'm wondering about compatibility, now and in the future.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 25, 2011 1:51 PM   in reply to _durin_

    Hi Durin,

     

    I was wondering if you could answer a few questions, please.

     

    1) There are some third-party plugins (Vongengo is one example) that are available in 64-bit.  Does one need to use the 32-bit plugins?

     

    2) Regarding the following

    * A large existing userbase on older and legacy hardware who are unable or unwilling to upgrade their systems at this time.

    * The increased testing hit which would draw time away from feature development for this release

     

    As we get closer to feature parity (and beyond!) to Audition 3, and as our users on older hardware are given time to prepare, I would expect us to release Audition as a native 64-bit application.  It will require updated agreements with many of the partners we license with as well, so it's not as simple as "flipping the 64-bit switch in the compiler."  It will allow Audition to sit a little bit better in the Production Premium suite, and if we approach virtual instrument sequencing in the future, 64-bit memory access allows for loading ENORMOUS sample libraries into RAM.

    2) Wouldn't the odds of the userbase being willing to upgrade increase with a compelling feature set?

    3) Since Premiere Pro is 64-bit and some third-party plugins are 64-bit, what kind of integration can AA CS 5.5 users expect with PrPro running 64-bit plugins and AA CS5.5?

    4) For users that might need to keep AA 3.0.1 for certain functions when they upgrade to CS 5,5, are there any ramifications between moving back and forth between 5.5 and 3.0.1?  Has any testing been done on this and is there a recommended workflow?

     

    Thanks,

    Steve

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 25, 2011 2:43 PM   in reply to _durin_

    Hi Durin,

     

    Many thanks!

    Steve

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
    5,602 posts
    Oct 26, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 25, 2011 3:01 PM   in reply to _durin_

    _durin_ wrote:

    4. The only problems you should run into when using Audition 3 and CS 5.5 simultaneously would be if both apps were attempting to access the same ASIO device.  Audition 3 allows you to run multiple instances of the application, but CS 5.5 does not.  You can, however, open multiple sessions at once so this should be less of a concern.

     

    I should point out that I haven't tried this directly with the rest of the CS, but the usual situation with ASIO and more than one app running is that it is only a problem if the apps are trying to access the same ASIO streams on a device - having two apps addressing the same card generally works fine, as long as the sample rate is the same. The no-no is trying to address two sound devices with ASIO - that it can't manage at all. So for instance with my E-Mu 1820m, it's only the ASIO streams that are actually allocated and in use that you can't use with another app.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 25, 2011 4:52 PM   in reply to SteveG(AudioMasters)

    Hi SteveG,

     

    Thanks.  Also, one thing that I don't think I made clear in my questions - perhaps either you or Durin or anyone else who knows can answer.

     

    When I was talking about workflow between AA 3 and 5.5, what I had in mind was that one probably would close one of the AA's before doing some work (one example is the AA 3 Scientific Filter).  Since the Effects Rack has been replaced, I thought that maybe VST-based effects, depending on when and where they are executed, might have unintended side-effects if one goes back and forth between versions.  Of course, I don't know the answer.  But, I thought it would be a good idea to the answer in advance.

     

    Steve

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
    5,602 posts
    Oct 26, 2006
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    Apr 26, 2011 2:20 AM   in reply to Steve C2

    They shouldn't be any interaction at all between two versions of Audition running at the same time - and if I get a chance later on I'll check that this is indeed the case. As long as the two different versions of AA don't try to access the same ASIO streams, they should both run fine simultaneously, assuming your audio device can cope with that. Dunno what that would do to your processor load though - and there would be no guarantee of any sort of a decent performance!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2011 11:06 AM   in reply to _durin_

    Sigh.

    As a developer myself, I understand that seemingly simple features can be very complex under the hood - especially if we've done our job as UX designers - but there was such a clamor for clip grouping here that it's hard to understand why it didn't make the cut.  That and the lack of control surface support scotches my upgrade plans. 

     

    Durin, the gist of a lot of your posts on this thread is that we should regard this release as a preview or a taste of things to come.  Without asking you to commit, can you give us some idea of when an interim *feature* (vs bug fix) release might be expected?  A year or so from now?  Just wondering how long I have to keep my struggling PC running...can't run AA3 under VMWare on the Mac because unfortunately I have a Firewire audio interface.

     

    Anyway, I appreciate all the thought and creativity that went into this first Mac release and hope there will be a future release that works for my sort of workflow.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2011 11:43 AM   in reply to _durin_

    Thanks, Durin.  Guess I already made my votes clear on features for release 6.

    And now the wait begins.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2011 11:50 AM   in reply to _durin_

    Dear Durin,

     

    though you didn't comment on this my reply, I still keep hoping that it will be taken into account. I think the number of Audition users that I'm talking about in my message cannot be ignored by Adobe.

     

    Thank you,

    Alex.

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
    5,602 posts
    Oct 26, 2006
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    Apr 26, 2011 12:06 PM   in reply to Alex Radzishevsky

    Alex Radzishevsky wrote:

    I think the number of Audition users that I'm talking about in my message cannot be ignored by Adobe.

     

     

    How many is that?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2011 12:16 PM   in reply to SteveG(AudioMasters)

    I didn't count everyone of them personally yet, but according to my experience (working as audio engineer and developer in voice communication industry) - they are thousands. You can visit any company that deal with voice communication, audio sw/hw validation, etc. and you can see most of the engineers using Audition or its predecessors.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2011 1:01 PM   in reply to _durin_

    Durin,

     

    I agree that adding this feature may help Adobe to better understand its customers and their needs.

     

    You can consider my above message about "silent army of users" as written report.

     

    The users I'm talking about are using Audition in audio development and audio validation process.If it can help, here is a brief list of features that are used by them on a daily basis (including myself, each and every day): spectrogram view, spectral analysis, statistics, scientific filters (high pass, band pass, low pass with configureable filter type, cutoffs and order), tones generation (especially with different start/end points, for example to generate sweep tones), noise generation (BTW, could be extended, I think), sample rate/bit resolution/channels conversion, mixing, subtraction, sample-precise editing, batch processing (can be definitely improved by adding scripting). All these functions make Audition absolutely not replaceble by any other tool. MatLAB and Audition - is the ultimate tool chain.

     

    If you say that scientific filters and tone generation are not available in 5.5 - it means that I personally will not be able to use it. The same with many of those who I'm telling you about.

     

    I hope you got my point, and I hope it will help you to make your product only better.

     

    Alex.

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
    5,602 posts
    Oct 26, 2006
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    Apr 26, 2011 4:17 PM   in reply to _durin_

    _durin_ wrote:


    And of course, it won't work on systems that are detached from the internet. 

     

    Which is, of course, most of the serious DAW users.

     

    I'm still not convinced about some of these numbers of users in areas that aren't generally considered to be major markets. Since Adobe control all the sales of Audition directly, they must surely have some sort of an idea as to where they've been sold...

     

    If we assume for a moment that the proportions of users who frequent forums (and we are talking long-term here) represent anything even vaguely like the usage spread, then I'd say that whilst game developers and people who work in the comms industry certainly show up, they certainly weren't anything like a major group. From what we see, it's radio users, podcasters and individual users doing restoration work and sometimes multitrack audio recording who form the backbone of users. One hidden group that we do know about (and they keep quiet about this deliberately, because it's embarassing to them for some strange reason) are the people using Audition for Mastering purposes - it gets used quite a lot for that, one way or another.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2011 7:53 PM   in reply to SteveG(AudioMasters)

    Ha! That's because part of the mystique of being a mastering engineer is in having a ton of expensive, specialized gear that the hoi polloi either don't know about or can't afford, and Audition doesn't fall into that category - it's too affordable. 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2011 8:58 PM   in reply to _durin_

    Hi Durin,

     

    My guess, from recent news is that If you do not collect the lattitude and longitude of the pc or, if you do, refrain from storing it in an unencrypted file, you might not get complaints.  JK.

     

    Steve

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
    5,602 posts
    Oct 26, 2006
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    Apr 27, 2011 1:41 AM   in reply to therealdobro

    therealdobro wrote:

     

    Ha! That's because part of the mystique of being a mastering engineer is in having a ton of expensive, specialized gear that the hoi polloi either don't know about or can't afford, and Audition doesn't fall into that category - it's too affordable. 

     

    That's certainly one reason. The other one they mutter about is that it doesn't seem right to use an app for mastering that had its origins in shareware. The one thing that they will admit though is that if you are doing sample rate conversions, Audition is as good as it gets. Especially if you are doing a lot of them, as in sample library creation, because you can batch them. Or at least you could - I haven't tried this on the new version. But that does remind me of something else that hasn't been mentioned up to now - there's a new dither option now as well. More details later, unless Durin gets there first...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 29, 2011 7:21 PM   in reply to _durin_

    This was not a previous feature, but I would love to see a way to use one track as the source for the launching of effects on another track. More to the point, being able to do things like gated reverbs (for killer drums), or distortion effects on a guitar triggered by a snare... Just a thought.

    Similar (but entirely different ) I would like to see the ability to add expressions like in Aftere Effects. This way, if the above feature was not made available I could write an expression to do it... If amplitude == such and such level raise input level to such and such for such and such amount of time.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 29, 2011 8:12 PM   in reply to MYX

    I think some VST effects can do that already.  I'm pretty sure that Drumagog can gate or duck other tracks when setup right on both tracks but it would be a nice built in feature for audition...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 29, 2011 8:30 PM   in reply to RonNovy

    I've been interested in ducking for a while, but too slow to pick it up.  Good thing, if Audition can't do it anyway.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 30, 2011 8:41 PM   in reply to _durin_

    Without midi and rewire, Audition loses much of its appeal. I don't understand what problems you had with it in 3 because I use 3 all the time with Reason rewired in to the multitracker and midi VSTis sequenced into the mix. Sometimes it was a little buggy and would crash and lose all its VSTs but they came back after a reboot. I was really looking forward to the new Audition and now the 30 day trial won't even be on my machine 24 hours because I can't use it without midi or rewire.Having help and the manual only available online is useless, too. My production machine isn't networked and is a pure music composition DAW.

     

    Very disappointing. Audition 3 was a very serviceable, easy to use multitasking software that I did my recording, mixing and mastering in. I'll keep using 3 until something better comes along.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 30, 2011 9:13 PM   in reply to wavecapsule

    Complaining about the same thing in 5 threads does make it clear that you're not satisfied, wavecapsule.  And Durin has already made it clear that staying with AA3 will be what some are going to prefer, but they're all ears to hear your reasons why.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 2, 2011 4:47 PM   in reply to _durin_

    Hello Durin,

     

    Thank you for your involvement with the forum.

     

    I have been using Audition since CE2K.

     

    I can see from the various comments that the move to CS5.5 fits people less or more according to their perspective.

    I pre-ordered the new version immediately, but as yet haven't actually received it, so my comments are based on what has been presented here.

     

    I use 2X other software editors, Pyramix, and Protools.

    Primarily for music production.

    So, in spite of the inconvenience, it is possible for me to shift between these and Audition 3, if there any required missing features in CS5.5.

    Like some of the others here, I am slowly moving towards incorporating Video editing and production into my studio.

     

    So for me, the positive aspects of this change are ....

     

    OMF Import and Export.

    Integration with Premiere.

    Overall RMS level average per track.

     

    What I miss ,..

    Generate Silence.

    I use this as a quick and simple method to clean and create correct spacing between CD Tracks.

    Also, if Premiere Elements integrated with Audition, it would be a good way to test the waters before extending to the cost of Premiere Pro.

    Although I don't use midi a lot, I enjoyed the implementation of it in Audition, and was looking forward to the development of any deficiencies.

     

    All the best,

    Onward and upwards.

     

     

    Bye for now,

    aomahana.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 2, 2011 5:39 PM   in reply to aomahana

    aomahana wrote:


    What I miss ,..

    Generate Silence.

     

    Edit > Insert Silence... will achieve you the same results.   Please check it out when you get your hands on the release.

     

    aomahana wrote:

     

    ...

     

    I use 2X other software editors, Pyramix, and Protools.


    ...

     

    So for me, the positive aspects of this change are ....

     

    OMF Import and Export.


    ...

     

    Please let us know how the OMF exchange works with Pyramix.   We've done intensive in-house testing on sending OMFs to/from Pro Tools, but not as much with Pyramix.  I spoke to one of the engineers at Merging while at AES this past fall about OMF interchange with Pyramix, so feel free to ask your support representative at Merging to also do some in-house testing with interchange with Audition.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 5, 2011 3:53 PM   in reply to David Polk

    It was with great expectations that my studio was looking forward to up-grading to Audition CS 5.5.  But I have the same issue as my Chicago colleague on the not retaining clip grouping (an editing issues).  You are Adobe, you just about invented the concept of grouping in the graphic world!  I can't tell you how many times that I have used the clip grouping feature to "lock down" some very complex edits.  But,  an even bigger issue is having no control surface support (production/work flow) in AA CS 5.5.  I work in a studio where the DAW is controlled by an   Alpha Track transport  from the booth and all edits and adjustments are from a control room.  This allows talent to start/stop recording their own tracks and allows the engineer to focus on any adjustments.  This process has had a very positive impact on our production work flow and has saved us time and money. Because of our dependence on this transport control strategy we cannot up-grade to 5.5 at this time.  As an aside, I spoke to Frontier Designs, the OEM of Alpha Track, and they had had no contact with Adobe and were finding out about CS 5.5 along with the rest of us.  Don't you guys cooperate with the hardware community as part of your beta program?  Sorry for a bit of a rant on this, but I'm just disappointed that my studio can't have access to all of the great features that you described in CS 5.5 because of AA 3.0 features that were not included in your build for CS 5.5.  I continue to be a loyal Adobe supporter but no longer a happy one.

     

    Jim L

    Chicago

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 5, 2011 4:09 PM   in reply to Quash45

    Those are exactly my two issues.  No clip grouping = more mistakes and a great deal more tedium; no control surface support = impossible to use AA in my studio setting.  I am my own engineer, and I cannot perform from behind my desk.  Having the Tranzport at my fingertips makes it all possible.

     

    Durin, need any more votes? 

     
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