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Which GPU for CS5.5?

Apr 21, 2011 3:32 PM

Here's some interesting information.

 

"I asked Adobe to confirm my findings and the following statement: "When using an approved NVIDIA card, CS5.5 performs better using cards with more CUDA cores." A few days later I received a short but to-the-point email confirming that my statement is accurate."

 

Seems CS5.5 takes better advantage of the CUDA cores in a card, and additional cores now means some significant improvements.

 

http://www.eventdv.net/Articles/News/Feature/Review-Adobe-CS5.5-Produc tion-Premium-74852.htm

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 21, 2011 6:27 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Jim,

     

    If you take a look at the official Adobe system requirements for Premiere Pro CS5.5, you will find that the officially supported GPU list has been expanded to now include all of the Fermi-based Quadros (both desktop/workstation and mobile) from the Quadro 2000 to the Quadro 6000, plus two new high-end GeForces (GTX 570 and GTX 580). Surprisingly, two older mobile pre-Fermi Quadros have also been added to the officially supported list. These are the GPUs that now no longer require the "cuda_supported_cards.txt" hack when CS5.5 is installed.

     

    As a result, the default "cuda_supported_cards.txt" file in the Windows version of CS5.5 should now look like this:

     

    GeForce GTX 285

    GeForce GTX 470

    GeForce GTX 570

    GeForce GTX 580

    Quadro CX

    Quadro FX 3700M

    Quadro FX 3800

    Quadro FX 3800M

    Quadro FX 4800

    Quadro FX 5800

    Quadro 2000

    Quadro 2000D

    Quadro 2000M

    Quadro 3000M

    Quadro 4000

    Quadro 4000M

    Quadro 5000

    Quadro 5000M

    Quadro 5010M

    Quadro 6000

     

    All other GeForce and Quadro GPUs will require the hack.

     

    The GeForce GTX 570 or 580 would become the best choice for prosumers working with relatively simple AVCHD-based projects with relatively few layers, while the high-end Quadro 5000 or 6000 would be best for semi-professional editors working with many video layers.

     
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    Apr 22, 2011 6:28 AM   in reply to RjL190365

    RjL190365 wrote:

     

    The GeForce GTX 570 or 580 would become the best choice for prosumers working with relatively simple AVCHD-based projects with relatively few layers, while the high-end Quadro 5000 or 6000 would be best for semi-professional editors working with many video layers.

    Randall

     

    Is this your theory or do you have any rumors or facts to substantiate it?  For instance my GTX 580 has more cores than any Quadro that I have looked at (yes it does have less video memory and that could be a factor, then there is a 3 GB version).

     
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    Apr 22, 2011 7:38 AM   in reply to Bill Gehrke

    Bill,

     

    It may have something to do with the driver optimization. I was merely providing rough guidelines in my previous post.

     

    And there has not yet been any results from CS5.5 yet because it has not yet been officially released. However, if I remember correctly that when the original CS5 first came out the GeForces were artificially limited to four layers maximum. The available drivers for GeForces are also limited to 8-bit color versus 10-bit color in the Quadros.

     
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    Apr 22, 2011 9:39 AM   in reply to RjL190365

    The Driver optimization is strictly based around plugins for animation/3D programs such as 3DS Max or Maya. They have nothing to do with CUDA acceleration such as the MPE acceleration. Matter of fact most who have CUDA based programs get the Geforce cards for that since they are faster and cheaper than the Quadro cards. Also Nvidia writes the drivers for both Quadro and Geforce cards. So the argument that the drivers for Quadro cards are more stable is really funny.

     

    Eric

    ADK

     
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    Apr 22, 2011 1:46 PM   in reply to RjL190365

    BTW the current Geforce drivers are not limited to 8 bit color. HDMI 1.3 and the HDMI 1.4 standard which the 400 or 500 cards support give Deep Color which is 10 bit color or greater support. The problem is Adobe has not updated their player to include the HDMI 1.3 or 1.4 standards. They just updated their player for the Displayport 10 bit color. Has nothing to do with the Geforce or Quadro drivers.

     

    Eric

    ADK

     
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    Apr 22, 2011 2:01 PM   in reply to ECBowen

    Thanks for the clarification, Eric.

     
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    Apr 22, 2011 4:04 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Jim,

     

    I guess it is time to reveal my testing of CUDA cards even though it will probably be obsolete information in May some time when the new CS 5.5 is released.

     

    In my editing system I tested the following graphics cards with Adobe Premiere Pro CS5 version 5.0.3. And yes I do have all those carrds.  Remeber all the timings are +/- 1 second because of the 1 second Windows 7 clock resolution.  All were of course tested with PPBM5.  Of note see the 84 second Rendering Timeline score with the ATI board.  Well all the tests with software MPE were also 84 seconds.

    MPE-Study-2.jpg

     
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    Apr 22, 2011 5:24 PM   in reply to Bill Gehrke

    Bill,

     

    Thanks for the CS5 5.0.3 results with various GPUs. That 9500 GT is really hobbled by its slow, low-bandwidth DDR3 graphics memory: The MPEG-2 DVD encoding performance with the 9500 GT is nearly three times slower than with even an ATi/AMD GPU. What's more, the H.264 Blu-ray encoding performance is more than two times slower with the 9500 GT than with an ATi GPU.

     

    By extension, the really sluggish performance also applies to the GT 220 and to a lesser extent the GT 430 and the DDR3 versions of the GT 240 and GT 440.

     

    And I was surprised with the results from the GTX 550 Ti: Despite fewer CUDA cores and 192-bit memory bit width (specifically, the GTX 550 Ti has one 512MB chip and two 256MB memory chips, for a total of 1GB on a 192-bit bus), it actually outpaced the older GTX 260 Core 216 despite the latter's 448-bit memory bit width because the GTX 550 Ti uses DDR5 memory versus the lower-bandwidth DDR3 memory on the GTX 260.

     

    So while the GTX 550 Ti is a better BFTB than the GTX 260 and most of the higher-end GeForces, your testing also shows that equipping such a high-end editing system with a really cheap GeForce such as a GT 220 would have thrown that entire system off balance. (Or put it this way, equipping an expensive editing rig with such a cheapo graphics card is like putting more and more mucus inside someone's chest.)

     
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    Apr 22, 2011 6:05 PM   in reply to RjL190365

    Do not forget that the 9500 GT has a PCIe 1.0 bus.  I am not sure exactly when they upgaded to the PCIe 2.0 bus.

     
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    Apr 22, 2011 7:31 PM   in reply to Bill Gehrke

    Bill,

     

    Do you really have a 580 that will clock (GPU) to 1.2GHz?

     

    And if that is not a typo, which one are you using?

     

    Thanks,

     

    Jim

     
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    Apr 23, 2011 8:49 AM   in reply to JEShort01

    Jim

     

    My GTX 580 is an EVGA that is factory Superclocked.  Here are the screen grabs on top the factory settings and bottom the slider bars pushed to the top settings with EVGA Precision overclocking tool.  Remeber that it made no difference to the PPBM5 results.  It would be interesting.if some one could find a difference that could give us a clue for an improved benchmark.  I will rerun the test when I have CS 5.5

     

    EVGA-OC.jpg

     
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    Apr 23, 2011 9:33 AM   in reply to Bill Gehrke

    Bill,

     

    Wow, that's a high clock; I'm surprised and impressed! It seems both EVGA and the new GPU design used in the GTX 580 are really doing well in your system.

     

    My MSI GTX 480 Hydrogen is a reference design (not a special design like MSI's Hawk, Talon, Lightning series etc.), but even with a full water jacket I doubt it could make it over 900! I run it at 850 with stock voltages, and as you say CS5 really doesn't need much GPU, and I'm not a gamer, so I don't have a need to get more out of it.

     

    Regarding CS5.5, it will be interesting to see how the GPU is utilized. The only article I've see where someone commented on CS5.5 with MPE, the results were significant, but also confusing. I'm talking about this article, which you've probably seen already:

     

    http://www.eventdv.net/Articles/News/Feature/Review-Adobe-CS5.5-Produc tion-Premium-74852.htm

     

    Thanks,

     

    Jim

     
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    Apr 23, 2011 10:45 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Jim,

     

    When I read NewEgg reviews of GTX 580 cards, the users generally talk about overclocking their cards and it is never over 1GHz.

     

    That's all.

     

    Regards,

     

    Jim Short

    (another Jim S!)

     
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    Apr 23, 2011 1:40 PM   in reply to JEShort01

    Jim and Jim

     

    During PPBM5 there never is a long stretch of GPU usage and never have seen anything (yet) approaching 100% loading.  Here is another EVGA Precision screen shot.  The top view is the H'264 encoding run and the bottom shows the last of the H.264 run and the shorter (20-24 seconds) most current segment is the MPEG2-DVD run In this case I manually observed the maximum GPU usage for the H.264 it was 51% and for the MPEG2-DVD it was 67%.GPU-med-OC.jpg

     
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    Apr 25, 2011 11:35 AM   in reply to Bill Gehrke

    So for those of us getting up to speed what does this add to the plus and minus list for for the following choises of Graphic Cards for a Premiere CS5.5 system with some use of AF and PS?

     

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133360&cm_re= gtx-_-14-133-360-_-Product GTX 580

     

    or

     

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16814133271  FX 3800

     
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    Apr 25, 2011 11:51 AM   in reply to Baker Park

    Baker,

     

    The GTX 580 in the above link is much newer than the FX 3800. The FX 3800 dates from the time of the old GTX 260; in fact, the FX 3800 is basically a non-Core-216 GTX 260, with its 192 CUDA cores. The GTX 580, on the other hand, is the current top-of-the-line single-GPU GeForce. Thus, all else being equal, the GTX 580 should perform better. Neither card requires the txt "hack" if you got CS5.5.

     
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    Apr 26, 2011 4:04 PM   in reply to Bill Gehrke

    Bill,

     

    I worry that one day they will find you body, crushed beneath a mountain of video cards, that fell off an overhead shelf.

     

    Thanks for the chart.

     

    Hunt

     
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    Apr 26, 2011 10:05 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Will the current PPBM5 be usable with CS5.5, so that we can use a comparison of run results to answer some of these questions?

     
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    Apr 26, 2011 11:18 PM   in reply to Burk Wagner

    Yes.

     
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    Apr 27, 2011 9:57 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Hey Gang, been out of the loop for a while, sounds like the hardware fun is still raging! 

     

    OK, simple question that y'all can answer much easier than me Googling: I have the EVGA GTX 470, and I can sell it for $220. The GTX 570 is $339 after rebate. For 50% more cash would I be getting 50% more chutzpah in real life?  For reference: i7-950/24GB/PP CS5/yadda yadda yadda.

     

    I know, I know, this is probably an old question by now...

     
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    Apr 28, 2011 12:23 AM   in reply to PaulieDC

    Paulie,

     

    You will be hard pressed to notice any difference in performance. IMO it is not worth the extra cash. Those $ 120 may be better used for 2 additional hard disks.

     
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    Apr 28, 2011 12:52 AM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Excellent Harm, I was hoping to hear that. Actually, I'll save that $120 and put it towards the $399 PPCS5.5 upgrade.   Thanks for the fast reply (as usual!)  Paulie

     
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    Apr 28, 2011 10:37 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    When it's released I'm gonna use Audition CS5.5 to write/record/mixdown a new song called "Jim and Harm Saved Me Buckets of Cash".

     
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    May 6, 2011 5:34 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    I have a question related to this topic, also, I know I type a lot, I just want to give as many details as possible, if you don't want to read my wall of text, please read the last line at the bottom, I tried to make it short down there. Thanks!

    I'm not sure if I should make a thread for it but I figured I would start by replying here.

     

    I recently ordered parts for a new computer that will mostly run premiere pro and after effects cs5.5. That includes the intel i7-2600k cpu and the gpu I chose was the GTX470 because I couldn't afford going with the 570.

     

    Today I got my parts but they made a mistake with the GPU, I got the EVGA GTX560 Ti.. Looks like the store I bought my stuff from simply switched the older GTX 470 for the newer 560 Ti in their codes or something (the new card even is at the same price of the GTX470) so I got the wrong card without them even knowning they made a switch...

     

    I know the GTX560 Ti is probably better for most people, but since it has less Graphics Processing Clusters (GPCs) and less Streaming Multiprocessors (SMs) and less CUDA Cores I'm wondering if I should keep the GTX560 or get a refund (well, it's their mistake after all) and buy something else.. I might get the GTX570 after all. The reason I ordered the GTX470 in the first place was because it was on the Adobe list of supported cards for the Mercury Playback Engine... I'm worried the 560 is not what I need.

     

    TL:DR: I have a GTX 560 Ti, does it work with Mercury Playback Engine, is it a good card for After Effect and Premiere Pro CS 5.5 Or should I go with a GTX 470?

     

    Thank you

     
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    May 6, 2011 6:12 PM   in reply to jblanteignee

    I have posted this before, the GTX 550 Ti works fine so the 560 Ti should even be better as it has twice as many cores

     

    MPE-Study-2.jpg

     

    Message was edited by: Bill Gehrke

     
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    May 7, 2011 7:44 AM   in reply to Bill Gehrke

    Thank you for your reply.

     

    However, I'm wondering if the GTX560 is faster or slower (even though it's an older generation card) than the GTX470 for my use of the card. (Premiere Pro and After Effect CS5.5 playback, render, etc) Since I actually bought a GTX470 and recieved a 560, I want to get the best card.

     

    I'm also considering upgrading from the 560 to a 570 if the performance with the softwares I use is really worth it... I wonder if there are benchmarks with Premiere Pro and AE.. All I can find are game benchmarks because those are gamer cards..

     

    Thanks

     
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    May 7, 2011 8:29 AM   in reply to jblanteignee

    jblanteignee wrote:

     

    Thank you for your reply.

     

    However, I'm wondering if the GTX560 is faster or slower (even though it's an older generation card) than the GTX470 for my use of the card. (Premiere Pro and After Effect CS5.5 playback, render, etc) Since I actually bought a GTX470 and recieved a 560, I want to get the best card.

     

    I'm also considering upgrading from the 560 to a 570 if the performance with the softwares I use is really worth it... I wonder if there are benchmarks with Premiere Pro and AE.. All I can find are game benchmarks because those are gamer cards..

     

    Thanks

    1.  AE has very little to be gained from more expensive graphics cards.

    2.  Here are the number of cores in the graphics cards that you are questioning:

    GTX 470  448

    GTX 560  384

    GTX 570  480

     

    They all are very close in possibly what is the determining factor in Premiere's MPE performance.  I definitely vote for the newer 500 series boards as the are quieter and cooler.  From my other benchmark data you can see that there would be very little to be gained from upgrading to the 570.  Spend your money on the more important things like faster CPU and more RAM memory

     

      I wonder if there are benchmarks with Premiere Pro and AE..

     

    My previous post was of course Premiere Pro Benchmarks (PPBM5)

     

    Message was edited by: Bill Gehrke

     
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    May 7, 2011 5:46 PM   in reply to Bill Gehrke

    Oh thanks a lot, this enlighten me.. I believe I'll keep the 560 has the hassle to get my money back and get a new card, in time and extra money invested is simply not worth it..

     

    Also, thanks for the link, I'll add my results in there.

     
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    Jun 28, 2011 12:08 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    I'm having a little trouble understanding the results chart that Bill posted. I'm in the market for a card that will help with Adobe CS5.5 and I'm not sure which card to get. On the MPEG-2, H.264, and Render Timeine charts - I'm guessing the lower the number, the better? Is all of that rendering time?

     

    It's funny because if so the GTX 550ti is competing with the 570 and 580, but the price is less than half of those cards. Which one of these cards would get me the best speed/performance ratio, the GTX 500ti? I'm still curious as to why that one looks like it performs so well considering it has half the cores...

     

    Having half the cores seems like it would be half the performance but this chart is showing otherwise. Why is that?

     
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    Jun 28, 2011 2:50 PM   in reply to ECBowen

    So Eric if I got a normal Geforce say 570-580 and went out thru the displayport and had a 10 bit monitor I could monitor in 10 bit?

    -Carl

     
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    Jun 28, 2011 5:42 PM   in reply to thared33

    thared33 wrote:

     

    I'm having a little trouble understanding the results chart that Bill posted. I'm in the market for a card that will help with Adobe CS5.5 and I'm not sure which card to get. On the MPEG-2, H.264, and Render Timeine charts - I'm guessing the lower the number, the better? Is all of that rendering time?

     

    It's funny because if so the GTX 550ti is competing with the 570 and 580, but the price is less than half of those cards. Which one of these cards would get me the best speed/performance ratio, the GTX 500ti? I'm still curious as to why that one looks like it performs so well considering it has half the cores...

     

    Having half the cores seems like it would be half the performance but this chart is showing otherwise. Why is that?

    I am not sure where you would find a GTX 500 Ti

     

    Yes the lower the number shows the better performance (faster encoding time).

     

    Are you really asking which card will give you the best speed/cost ratio?  That is subjective to your budget.

     

    From my testing with a limited number of boards (unfortunately neither of these boards) I would guess that the GTX 560 Ti (384 cores)@ ~$230 or the GTX 560 (336 cores) @ ~$200 would be my performance/buck choice.

     
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    Jun 29, 2011 7:40 AM   in reply to C_BRAUN

    Right now Adobe only draws out 10bit color in Open GL and the Geforce cards don't pass the query. You still require a Quadro card for this.


    Eric

    ADK

     
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    Jun 29, 2011 11:00 AM   in reply to ECBowen

    Testing the GeForce GTX 550 Ti 1024MB in Adobe Premiere Pro CS5, CS5.0.3, CS5.5:

     

    http://www.efxi.ru/file/premiere_cuda2.files/image015.gif

    http://translate.google.ru/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.efxi.ru%2Fmore %2Fpremiere_cuda2.html&sl=ru&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

     
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