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"No professional uses Premiere!"

Apr 22, 2011 8:51 PM

That  is what the owner of a production company said to me when I spoke to  him at their freelancer cattle call. Somehow Final Cut is much more  "professional." I posted this to get the attention mainly of the  marketing people at Adobe. It looks like they are in fact pushing hard  with CS 5.5; emphasizing the Mercury engine and the dynamic link. But  you are going to encounter people who think Starbucks has the best  coffee because of the image (and the price) even though McDonald's  coffee was voted the best in a survey (not to equate Adobe with  McDonalds, just pointing out how people rely on perceptions rather than  reality).

 

I  have always been mind-boggled by editing job ads that list as their  requirements Adobe this, Adobe that, Adobe, Adobe, Adobe...Final Cut!

 

???????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Some  people even think the end result looks better coming from a Mac than a  PC! What, are Mac's pixels somehow better (higher resolution per pixel -  lol?).

 

I  love the dynamic link. No more pre-rendering and accumulation of video  files. Also, Final Cut can't deal directly with a number of file formats  while Premiere is much more versatile.

 

If  you read comparative reviews of Premiere and Final Cut, it boils down  to personal preference with no clear winner. But I think the scales will  be tipped with CS 5.5 - but you'll have to slap the ignorant around a  bit and really SHOW them. Make them actually TASTE the coffee!!

 

Now  I've had my share of problems with Adobe products, but with others as  well. Software in general will not always run perfectly on every system.  But the instant the stubborn encounter one problem, they will say,  "See!"

 

Far  as job qualification goes, I have an aptitude for adapting to any  interface or upgrade (shameless self promotion). When I did work with  Final Cut, my impression was I couldn't understand why employers see  this as so different from a user's perspective? That is what employers  should be looking for - people who can advance and adapt along with the  technology. Finding someone who matches their present laundry list of  apps doesn't guarantee they will be able to handle the next upgrade or  re-tooling.

 

Any similar experiences or observations?

 

Bruce B.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 23, 2011 6:52 AM   in reply to earlyfilms01

    Yeah, I've dealt with this B.S. since 2002. The broadcast journalism school had Media 100 suites for our newscutting and FCP suites for the rest of the production classes. I got sick of waiting in line to cut my edits, and having to rush against the clock...edit sessions were 2 hours max, and the school closed at 8pm. Nevermind taking the time to ride into campus to cut the projects and having to store everything on portable drives (which were small and expensive at the time).

     

    I looked into buying my own FCP system but I quickly found out the costs (I was so naieve, i didn't even realize it was a Mac-only application). Someone tipped me to Premiere which was just recently released as v6.5. Truth be told, this person gave me an illegal copy of Premiere (hey, it was the days of Napster, we were stupid and didn't realize this stuff was supposed to cost money).

     

    At any rate, I installed Premiere on my decently-outfitted Dell computer with plenty of storage and that was that. To me, it was actually more functional than FCP and faster, and it didn't require a $4,000 computer system. I did purchase the software after my first edit, just so everyone knows that's on the record, and I've purchased every version ever since.

     

    It was hilarious to me that a few of my peers refused to work on Premiere because, as they said, "all the pros are using FCP and you're going to need to know how to use it if you want a job." Of course, I always pictured myself as eventually being indepedent - which I am - and so that means I get to pick what I want to use. Nonetheless, they all slaved away back and forth to the edit bays, whereas I could just stay up til 2am cutting a student project and be done with it in one session and without any external storage.

     

    9 years later, nothing much has changed. The BBC bought 2,000+ seats of Premiere Pro CS5, and when I tell my friends over at a major Atlanta broadcaster (where they run FCP and a few Avids) they scoff, like it's no big deal. I guarantee if the BBC bought 2,000 seats of FCPX they'd be telling me all about it.

     

    Even more interesting, this major broadcaster here in Atlanta actually has a few copies of FCPX on their test beds, and now the word is that they're ditching FCP and either moving back to Avid...or to Premiere Pro. One of the guys actually said this: "yeah, it's starting to look like we're either going back to Avid or - yuck! - Premiere [sic]."

     

    I didn't address the "yuck" comment, but that sort of sentiment runs rampant through the FCP faithful who haven't even worked in Premiere Pro and couldn't tell you anything about it except that they don't like it. Somehow they just KNOW that it's terrible...even though, as you mentioned, everything else they work with is Adobe...Illustrator, Photoshop, After Effects, Dreamweaver, Flash.

     

    The worst thing - and I'll end with this - is that they will all complain about this that and the other when it comes to the current FCP suite ("motion is crap" and "dvd studio pro is useless" and "FCP is so buggy" and "Quicktime gamma is horrible and unworkable"). This is akin to some kid on the playground saying "my mom is such a jerk." You can bet that if another kid says "yeah, she really is...your mom sucks" that you will find this same person coming rapidly to his own mother's defense. Point is, FCP users have no shortage of complaints about their own software of choice, but if any outsider says anything about it or recommends Premiere Pro as a solution, it's all smirks, scoffs and BS.

     
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    Apr 23, 2011 7:05 AM   in reply to earlyfilms01

    Pretty much all the freelancer jobs I look at in my own market are also asking for FCP experience.

     

    Yet another reason for me to hate Macs.

     
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    Apr 23, 2011 7:15 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    For what it's worth, I have sent my demo in to jobs before that required FCP experience. After they loved the reel, they asked about FCP..."didn't see it on your resume"

     

    I just told them I don't use FCP, that to me it doesn't matter what software somebody uses to create, so long as the product is great.

     

    They agreed in both instances, and I got the job.

     

    Haven't been turned down yet for not using FCP. Not like it's hard to learn.

     
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    Apr 23, 2011 12:32 PM   in reply to Christian Jolly

    Christian,

     

    It used to be the same, after PS was ported for the PC. The designers in the Denver Area (and beyond) were all on Macs, and the majority felt that if an Image ever touched a PC, there was some sort of negative ju-ju now, and forever, attached to that Image. I just did not tell them, that my PC could read and write to a Mac-formatted SyQuest disc, and they never knew. When they wanted to drop by, and watch me edit, I always had an excuse, so they never got to see my PC cranking out their Images.

     

    Amazing how centric some can get. As you point out, it is but a tool, and it's the art behind the tool that should count. Some just do not see it that way.

     

    Heck, I do not care if my mechanic uses Snap-On, Craftsman, MAC, or some other spanner - so long as the car gets fixed!

     

    Hunt

     
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    Apr 23, 2011 12:42 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    that mac vs pc stuff with photoshop was related to the "post script" fonts for mac vs "true type" for pc...with some good reason for commercial printing.

     

    also the postscript stuff was used then for imagesetters ( making color separations from quark and photoshop )... so part of the problem back then was indeed a quality issue and the diff between commercial quality and "small business / home " quality ( postscript vs HP standards re: fonts and color spaces etc ..... what we now refer to as cmyk vs rgb in a lot of cases )

     

     

    ps..

     

    also, at that time , using something like quark with photoshop required ( with cmyk space  and non-scalable postscript fonts ) some knowledge of dot screens, angles, shapes of dots and dot gain etc etc....  which pc people ( home and small biz apps ) didnt know about generally....

     

    sooo, we have to take this evolution with some degree of sincere factual stuff .....not just a passion for some platform etc

     

    pps... I once worked on a hybrid silicon graphics machine in a commercial house that was called the " SNAKE MACHINE " !!!! NO KIDDING !

    ( joking )

     

     
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    Apr 23, 2011 12:51 PM   in reply to able123

    and...getting back to the orig subject ( rare for me in the forums during BEER THIRY !!!! ( YES, ITS BEER THIRTY ! ) ) ....

     

    I just asked Bill ( check your personal emails you slacker ! ) to help me make a video mask for something that will augment an already roughcut previous scene ..... that was already introduced to the director / exec producer of something produced for network ... not edited yet etc....   where I will recommend premiere pro for on set daily roughcuts and dailies previews ( if he gets back to me via agent and I dont get sued from here to mars for taking the liberty with certain material )

     

    ( shaking in boots now as this could either be very cool , or could end my career on film crews )

     

     
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    Apr 23, 2011 2:04 PM   in reply to able123

    Here's hoping for the former.

     
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    Apr 23, 2011 2:32 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    thanks Jim

     

     

    you would think that anything that makes things "better" and faster etc would be OK....and if I can introduce cs3-5 into workflow why the heck not ??

     

    have a great weekend !

     
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    Apr 23, 2011 3:49 PM   in reply to able123

    In my cases, this was a time, before PS had much in the way of Type handling. Everything was done in Raster, Filled Selections for Type - all that work was done in Quark, PageMaker, or similar program. I was ONLY working on the Images. It wasn't until what, PS v 4.0, that PS got Vector Type?

     

    Hunt

     
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    Apr 23, 2011 3:50 PM   in reply to able123

    I just asked Bill ( check your personal emails you slacker ! ) to help me make a video mask for something that will augment an already roughcut previous scene .....

     

    Thanks for the nudge. Check you Inbox - "you've got mail... "

     

    Couple of questions, and then I should be able to knock it out tomorrow.

     

    Hunt

     
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    Apr 23, 2011 4:33 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Yeah, I forget when it happened that adobe stuff went to pc and it came with an "adobe type manager" thing that you could use your postscript fonts with ( as well as the true type scalable fonts ).. all in all the market changed then , going to home businss, small business and home stuff ( RGB ) based stuff...and the imagesetters using postscript got more advanced ( instead of making color separations on film they started making the plates for offset press )...  I kinda lost touch with all that when that happened...

     

     
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    Apr 23, 2011 4:46 PM   in reply to able123

    I do not recall if ATM came with PS, as I had it already with PageMaker, which was picked up from Aldus.

     

    Back in those days, I added a PostScript board to my B/W only laser printer, and the danged thing costs as much as the printer, but did bump up my RAM in the printer to about 256 KB. For an other printer, I went the software PostScript route, but it was such a hassle, that I soon gave up. I was doing very little with type anyway.

     

    Hunt

     
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    Apr 23, 2011 5:11 PM   in reply to able123

    robodog2 wrote:

     

    Yeah, I forget when it happened....

     

    Holy cow, a capital letter!  Dude, I knew you could do it.  Keep 'em comin' man.

     
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    Apr 23, 2011 9:08 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    JSS1138 wrote:

     

    robodog2 wrote:

     

    Yeah, I forget when it happened....

     

    Holy cow, a capital letter!  Dude, I knew you could do it.  Keep 'em comin' man.

     

     

    Oh, I dunno, I think he uses some --

     

    "YES, ITS BEER THIRTY ! YES, ITS BEER THIRTY ! YES, ITS BEER THIRTY ! YES, ITS BEER THIRTY ! YES, ITS BEER THIRTY ! YES, ITS BEER THIRTY ! YES, ITS BEER THIRTY ! YES, ITS BEER THIRTY ! YES, ITS BEER THIRTY ! YES, ITS BEER THIRTY ! YES, ITS BEER THIRTY ! YES, ITS BEER THIRTY ! YES, ITS BEER THIRTY ! YES, ITS BEER THIRTY ! YES, ITS BEER THIRTY ! YES, ITS BEER THIRTY !"

     
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    Apr 23, 2011 9:51 PM   in reply to jeremy d.

    i sincerely hope you guys dont have very scary dreams about

     

     

    SSSSSSSSSSSSSSnakes !

     
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    Apr 24, 2011 7:08 AM   in reply to able123

    It's the same in the recording studio world. Professionals use Pro Tools. Only amatuers use anything else. Of course, that's complete BS, but I understand how it got started, which I suspect is very much the same for FCP.

     

    I've been a Microsoft software developer for over 20 years, starting with the dark days of DOS 3.1, so I'm pretty familiar with PC capabilities over the years. For ages, Macs were light years ahead of Windows PCs for anything multimedia. Want to do some production on these newfangled personal computers? The word on the street was consistent: you need a Mac. PCs simply don't have solutions. Thing is, back then, it was true.

     

    Pro Tools ran on Macs for this reason, and they also had proprietary hardware (still do) that let you offload all the intensive crunching to rack mount processors dedicated to this purpose. Without that, even early Macs would have choked and died from the load. So, back then, if you wanted to do professional recording studio work on a computer, you needed Pro Tools. There simply wasn't another viable solution. And certainly not from the Microsoft world, where even Windows 3.1 was just a coat of paint on a computer running DOS as the operating system.

     

    There's also a second chapter to this story. In the early days of personal computers, there was an initial battle between Apple and Microsoft for dominance of the desktop, and Apple had their head handed to them very, very early in the game. Microsoft owned the business world, and by extension much of the personal world. DOS (yes, DOS), was the defacto standard. Apple couldn't even get arrested. As an aside, this is why I'm a Microsoft developer rather than an Apple one - no religion, I just went where the work was.

     

    Since they were clearly outgunned in the business world, Apple tried a different tactic - they went after academia and the arts. They gave lots of computers to colleges. Because of the aforementioned shortcomings of the MS world, they went after recording studios and yes, the TV / movie industry. They had the advantage of offering functionality MS couldn't touch in the entertainment world. In the idealistic environment of college youth, they had the advantage of being "not Microsoft." So they established a base in these areas and effectively locked MS out of the game by a) being better and b) being first.

     

    Fast forward to the present day. Windows PCs, having lifted every useful design element they could from Macs and coupled with modern processors, are caple of doing any and everything that their Apple counterparts can. But Apple is the established big dog in these areas and has been for decades. While the prejudice against PCs is no longer justified, it once was. However, even that doesn't matter. Apple has a long tradition, and thus much loyalty in these arenas. Today, it has nothing to do with which is better. It's all about religion. And any student of history will point out how dangerous it can be to disrespect someone else's religion.

     

    Because I have decades of MS experience, I have a MS network of machines. Could I buy a Mac and FCP (or Pro Tools)? Sure. But as others have mentioned, I'm not looking for a job as an editor, I'm a freelance content producer, so why should I? For the record, in my recording studio I use Nuendo and Sonar and it turns out I'm not missing any functionality I'd have were it a Pro Tools shop. I should know. I once had Pro Tools installed as well.

     

    If you're interested in the end result, it simply doesn't matter whether you use Macs or PCs. However, if you want to get a job in the audio / video industry, the tools you use absolutely matter. It's not important that Adobe products are just as capable as FCP. All that matters is that prejudice, whether you like it or not, is a reality. Ignore it at your peril. That doesn't mean you can't get a job without FCP. What it means is that you're in for a pitched battle. Either buy FCP and add it to the list of your skills, or be prepared to contact many, many more people before you find a job.

     

    No, it's not fair. And yes, it really shouldn't matter. But it does. Adjust your plans accordingly. Those who choose to ignore reality will eventually find themselves impaled upon it.

     
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    Apr 24, 2011 8:41 AM   in reply to Christopher Duncan

    Chris, your take on the history and evolution of this stuff ( pc mac ) etc is right on...or at least exactly what I saw happening too.

     

    Now, just for the heck of it, my latest foray into "editing" has me potentially getting in touch with dir / exec prod re: using csX to do some manipulation of dailies and maybe roughcuts during shoots in the future ( and some info wrangling ( assets ) )...

    I can't imagine I'm the only one doing that.... so everything once again just comes down to just using tools that do the jobs.

     

     

    on another subject... I need to make about 8 short clips ( about 1 sec each ...maybe .5 sec ) of scrambled video like when you turn on, off and on again a cheap video camera and replay stuff....that noise you see between turning off and on ...

     

    any ideas ??  ( dv ntsc 720x480 16:9 "upper field first" ( is weird but true ) ) --- Im using cs3

     

     

    AND ITS BEER THIRTY !

     
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    Apr 24, 2011 11:51 AM   in reply to jeremy d.

    Jeremy,

     

    I have seen some too - SCARY SNAKES!!!!

     

    Hunt

     
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    Apr 24, 2011 12:45 PM   in reply to able123

    Rod,

     

    Check your FTP site in about 15 mins.. You should have an MPEG, plus a screen-cap of the Effects that I used. I did not adjust the Keyfrmes, so it's all Linear. Also, I did not have the SFX external hooked up, but think that if the Audio is attenuated and an SFX of static comes up, during the middle of that Clip, it will go a very long way to "selling" the Effect.

     

    Hunt

     
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    Apr 24, 2011 1:34 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    No professional uses Premiere Pro?

     

    Huh.

     

    Someone had better tell the guy holding the award in this picture:

    http://bifa.org.uk/2010/awards/best-technical-achievement/entries/mons tersgareth-edwards

     

    That award---along with several others---is for a film edited in Premiere Pro.

     
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    Apr 24, 2011 1:57 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Hey, he must be some guy - award, PrPro and Moët.

     

    Hunt

     

    PS - I am glad that I suggested that the OP also post here, as I knew that there would be some worthwhile comments following.

     

    PPS - I also warned him about the Rolling Rock and Scary Snakes, so don't think that I lured him in here, without warning.

     
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    Apr 24, 2011 5:27 PM   in reply to able123

    Rod,

     

    Yeah, hopefully all they care about is the end result. As for static, sounds like Bill's got you covered!

     
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    Apr 24, 2011 8:24 PM   in reply to Christopher Duncan

    Yes to Todd, great discussion.

     

    I think the best word to respond to this 'No Professional Uses Premiere!" statement is simply "FALSE".

     

    If you label that comment as "false", you don't call the speaker a liar or anything inflammatory, but calmly rebut it on an objective basis.

     

    For example, I'm making my way through the Peachpit Video2Brain interactive videos on Premiere Pro and After Effects, the latter featuring Todd Kopriva.

     

    Throughout these 20 hours of incredible instructional videos, the instructors are working on various "medieval gladiator pitched battle" material as a platform for teaching a myriad of tips and techniques in these two applications.  The name of the undertaking is apparently called "Palladin" or something like that.

     

    Just ten days ago, something raced by me on the TV screen, some quick, catchy ad about a hot new cable TV show. 

     

    It had this same footage and characters as these instructional videos did.  What Todd and others had been working on during these instructional videos was a very ambitious cable tv project for a major entity.

     

    So it is simply false to say that no professional uses premiere. 

     

    1.  It is being used to win awards on feature films as Todd points out.

     

    2.  It is also being used on major network television studio broadcasts, as the anecdote above demonstrates.  (I wish I remembered the name of the show....).

     

    So unless they want to challenge those two projects set forth above as "unprofessional", I simply have zero idea what the heck they are talking about.

     

    Matt

     
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    Apr 25, 2011 2:09 PM   in reply to able123

    i sincerely hope you guys dont have very scary dreams about

     

     

    SSSSSSSSSSSSSSnakes !

     

    I kind of hope I do. I like scary dreams.


     
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    Apr 25, 2011 2:11 PM   in reply to able123

    robodog2 wrote:

     

    Chris, your take on the history

     

    Now, just for the heck of it

    I can't imagine

     

    Ooh!  Ooh!  Three of them in the same post!

     

    Everybody now:

     

    Rob!  Rob!  Rob!...

     
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    Apr 25, 2011 6:08 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    I rarely pass on silly stuff sent over emails by friends who think I will be amused, amazed or humored by various things out there.

     

    Luckily I only have one friend who does that despite my asking him not to ( for security reasons mostly ).

     

    But this is something I've thought about a few times when I've seen little "Smart" cars on the road around here.  For one thing, I don't know why little cars that run on electricity or gas and electricity have box shapes to them sometimes.  Like, what happened to aero-dynamic design ?  Just because it's electric doesn't mean it has to look like a phone booth or a box, right ?

     

    But here's one that doesn't look like a box or phone booth.  The 2nd photo is from some place near New Orleans and happened at less than ( LESS ) 10 MPH.  Yikes !!!!

     

    smart car1.jpg

     

    smart car2.jpg

     

     
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    Apr 26, 2011 7:41 AM   in reply to able123

    Now that was a post easy to read.  Proper capitalization for every sentence.  Proper punctuation and spelling.  Very nice.

     

    Thanks, dude.  Keep at it.

     

    (I sure hope no one was in that car at the time.)

     
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    Apr 26, 2011 8:42 AM   in reply to able123

    I see a whole bunch of those little suckas around Mayfair. They are very popular in the London city-center.

     

    The other day, a really big Rolls Phantom was heading up Mounds St, and thre was this "clicking" noise. The driver got out, examined the tires, went to the boot and got out a large screwdriver. He began poking any prying at the front tire, and extracted two SmartCars from the treads. The clicking stopped, and he drove away.

     

    Hunt

     
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    Apr 27, 2011 1:02 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    re: pro work with premiere ...I have to admit that I'm leaning toward wanting to see some LUT functionality with the product without plug ins or 3rd party programs.

     

    I guess you can work around alexa prores 4444 C log stuff using avchd or something and then use fast color correction ( rgb ? ) settings to get some kinda rec709 thing...but if a DP did camera tests and on the day of tests ( with DIT guy there ) made a LUT for all his dailies ....it would be nice to plug that into premiere right off the bat....

     

    apparently thats one reason avid and fcp is being used for those dailies now and NOT premiere pro...as the LUT is custom made and NOT trying to replicate a common color space.

     

     
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    Apr 27, 2011 1:15 PM   in reply to able123

    this sorta explains some of what I mean...scroll down and look at sxs card recording, prores , and c log gamma ...

     

    show I just worked on recorded "master" as prores c log on sxs cards ( network tv )....

     

    just saying, luts would be nice to start ( say if it was recorded raw ), and some kind of handling of prores might be nice ??

     

    http://thefilmbook.com/top/techne/arri-alexa-prototype.php

     

    anyway, Im gonna go visit the post house ( tour etc ) soon...so will let you know what I find out.

     

     
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    Apr 27, 2011 2:44 PM   in reply to able123

    Oh damn.  Old habits die hard I guess.

     

    Well, those proper capitals were nice while they lasted.

     
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    Apr 27, 2011 3:01 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

     
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    Apr 27, 2011 6:39 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Jim,

     

    We all appreciated them, but then I declared Wine-thirty, and somehow, it just did not matter anymore.

     

    Hunt

     
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    Apr 28, 2011 10:02 AM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Arri and Panavision ( and probably other manufacturers ) sometimes have useful information on their website under " downloads"...

     

    In this case there are a couple at Arri ...re: formats (lots of formats ) and frameleaders ( kinda like focus charts with cool info )...

     

    If you right click on a link for pdf files and use " save link as" option you'll be able to download the pdf to computer ( rather than load the pdf into browser's pdf reader ) -- on pc.

     

    You can then put files like these onto a flash memory stick and put in pocket and you'll always have various little tidbits of information available to you when you might need it on a set or whatever...

     

    There are apps for smart phones that do a lot of this , supply info re: lens substitutions and all sorts of stuff...but that is often either slow or not available with bad phone reception in some buildings etc.

     

    Anyway, here's some cool stuff ....  go to "downloads" for all files avaiable.

     

    http://www.arricsc.com/download/pdf_frameleader.html

     

    Frameleaders

     

    Frame leader charts have become a very popular method of showing the lab/transfer house where the specific film format will be placed on the film. The camera assistant shoots several feet of a Frame leader chart, either in the rental house or on set, and sends this footage to the lab along with the production footage. The lab then knows the exact size and position of the format on the film negative.

     

    The ARRI CSC Frameleaders for 35mm, 16mm and Digital include all groundglass markings available at ARRI CSC. The pages can be printed and used as template for shooting a Frameleader. They also can be customized online with the names of your Production Company, Product, Director/ DP etc.

     


    ARRI CSC Frameleader 35mm (6.6 MB)
    ARRI CSC Frameleader 16mm (2.5 MB)
    ARRI CSC Frameleader Digital (1.9 MB)
    ARRI CSC Frameleader Complete 35mm, 16mm, Digital (9.9 MB)

     

     
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    Apr 28, 2011 10:38 AM   in reply to able123

    Excerpt from "Videoguys" site...

     

    Top 5 Storage Rules
    You have a lot of choices for drives to store your digital video files. A stand-alone SATA hard drive is fast enough for editing Standard Definition (SD) footage using DV or MPEG2 compression. But, if you're working with uncompressed SD footage or HD footage, we recommend more robust storage solutions. Before we get into our FAQ, we'd like to review Videoguys' Five Rules of Video Storage:

    2007best-1.gifYou can never have   too much storage.

    DV compressed video   requires 13GB per hour of footage, ProRes 422 requires 66GB per hour. While   this may not seem like a big deal to you today, it sure was not so many years   ago. Back in 1998 a 9GB SCSI drive would cost you over $1500!! And if you   wanted to create great looking video, you had no choice but to invest that   kind of money. Today's SATA drives are faster, more reliable and most   importantly offer far greater capacities at a fraction of the cost. You can   find 1TB drives (1,000 GB) for under $100 online.

    2007best-2.gifIt's the throughput   baby!

    Seek times and peak   transfer rates mean nothing for video production. All we care about is   sustained throughput. We don't care about the highest specs of the drive. We   only care about the minimum. If the sustained data rate of the drive dips   below the required transfer rate for our video, the result is jerky playback,   messed up audio and dropped frames. Given today's technology, there is no   excuse for this. When in doubt, get better storage then you think you will   need.

    RPMs are a good   indicator of a drives over-all performance. For video work we recommend   drives rated 7200 RPM or faster. We have found that many 5400 RPM drives do   not have the sustained throughput required for NLE work.

    2007best-3.gifA single drive will   get slower as it fills with data.

    A hard drive is a   spinning disk. Back when we all had turntables and records, this was very   easy to explain. If you placed a penny on the outer edge of the record, it   would travel a much greater distance in a single rotation then a penny placed   near the label on the inside of the LP. More distance over the same period of   time equals greater speed. Using this analogy today just gets me a strange   look by most people. But the reality is still the same: A single drive will   get slower as it fills with data. Even with todays SATA technology we have   seen that once a drive reaches 75% of capacity, the sustained data rate   starts to drop off considerably.

    Drives are so big,   affordable & fast today that this rule at times does not even apply. You   can buy a 1TB drive for under $100, that's big enough to store over 15 hours   of ProRes 422 or 75 hours of DV/HDV video. Even though we don't want you to   fill the drive beyond 75% capacity - that still leaves you with enough room   for several hours of video!

    2007best-4.gifUse a dedicated drive   for your video projects and media.

    With today's powerful   processors, lightening fast memory, super 3D graphics cards and huge SATA   hard drives; you can capture, edit & playback single stream DV video with   your system drive. That said, we still urge you to get a dedicated hard drive   (7200 RPM or faster) for all your video clips. This will produce the best   results - especially for video projects over 1 hour in length. If you are   going to be editing HD footage we still recommend a dedicated RAID for all   your video and media. That will give you the best results.

    2007best-5.gifgraid3-backsmall.jpgRAIDs are GREAT for   video!!

    RAID stands for   Redundant Array of Independent Disks. That means that 2 or more drives are   grouped and formatted together in order to provide greater storage and   performance. There are several different types of RAID, which we outline in   greater detail in the FAQ section of this article. Setting up a RAID is very   simple and easy to do. If you are putting together a new machine for video   editing we recommend selecting a motherboard with a built-in SATA RAID controller.   Not only will this work great, but we've found they often include very easy   to use RAID configuration software. If you have a laptop or you do not want   to open up your computer you can ad an external RAID solution like our G-Tech   G-RAIDs.


    Now that you know our Five Rules of Video Storage, let's dig in and answer some very important video storage questions!

    How should I configure the storage for my video editing workstation?
    For video editing, the Videoguys recommend the following RAID storage configuration:

       1. SATA Boot drive (500GB or larger)
        2. Pair of Identical SATA drives striped in a RAID0 configuration 2 x 1,000GB = 2TB (1,000GB) or an external RAID 0 or RAID5
        3. (optional) 4th SATA drive (500GB or larger) for encoding to. Plus use it for back-ups, digital photo library, MP3 library, etc.

    Why can't I just set up my computer with one big RAID-0 for all my storage?
    We do NOT recommend setting up your computer with a single RAID 0 array as your boot drive and video storage. This will actually give you poor performance for video editing. The constant reading and writing of small bits of data to the boot drive works against the need to read & write large continuous video files. Add in the overhead of the RAID controller and you get potential bottlenecks. For video editing you always want to have a separate drive or RAID array dedicated to your video files.

    What about SCSI?
    Years ago we only recommended SCSI hard drives for video storage but now, with SATA drive technology, that is no longer the case. While SCSI drives are faster, more reliable and better then SATA drives, they are also much more expensive and, for video work, they are not worth the premium. You get much better price / performance with a SATA RAID then a SCSI drive.

    How much storage do I need for making standard definition DVDs?
    Lets break it down:

    • If you are starting with DV footage, you      need 13GB per hour of video.
    • This means a 2 hour DVD is 2 x 13 = 26GB      of footage.
    • Add in the extra unused footage and it's      more like 3 x 13 = 39GB.
    • Figure that you'll be adding some extra      graphics and audio tracks. Let's say another 2GB for these.
    • Now you need room for the MPEG2 footage      for the DVD, that's 4.7GB more.

    Add it all up and it comes to almost 50GB of high speed video storage to make a 2 hour DVD!!

    How much storage do I need for HD?
    That depends on the compression you are using. HDV footage takes up about the same amount of space as DV, 13GB per hour, while ProRes 422, DNxHD or DVC Pro HD takes up about 4 times as much space,  over 60GB per hour. Uncompressed HD footage requires around 500GB per hour - almost 50x the storage capacity of compressed HD footage. Plus, uncompressed HD also requires substantially faster sustained throughput. A single stream of uncompressed HD footage requires over 100 MB/sec!! At first glance, uncompressed HD video capture cards are inexpensive, but once you add the cost of the necessary storage you'll realize that editing uncompressed HD is actually very expensive.

    Below is a simple chart to help make this easier to understand:

    Format

    GB/Hour

    Hours/TB

    DV

    13

    75

    HDV 720p

    11

    90

    HDV 1080i

    13

    75

    DVCPro HD

    60

    17

    XDCAM EX

    19

    52

    ProRes 422   1920x1080

    66

    15

    ProRes 422 HQ   1920x1080

    99

    10

    Cineform Low

    36

    28

    Cineform High

    58

    17

    Avid DNxHD 145   8-bit

    61

    16

    Avid DNxHD 220   10-bit

    100

    10

    Uncompressed SD   8-bit

    80

    12

    Uncompressed SD   10-bit

    97

    10

    Uncompressed HD   720p 8-bit

    396

    2.5

    Uncompressed    HD 720p 10-bit

    497

    2

    Uncompressed    HD 1080i 8-bit

    432

    2.25

    Uncompressed    HD 1080i 10-bit

    558

    1.8

    What are the different RAID configurations and how are they used for video storage?

    • str0.jpgRAID 0
      RAID 0      is two or more drives striped together for maximum throughput. The      computer sees theses drives as one single, large drive. With RAID-0 you      get 2x the drive capacity of the smaller drive. So two 250GB drives give      you 500GB of storage. (Note: we strongly recommend using identical drives      – same model and capacity – for any RAID).
      • Advantage: Maximum throughput
      • Disadvantage: If one of the drives in a       RAID-0 should fail, you would lose all your data.
    • mir1.jpgRAID 1
      RAID 1 is often      called mirroring because both drives have the same exact data on them.      This is done for protection. If one drive fails, you still have all your      data on the other. This means the total volume of storage in the RAID-1 is      only as big as a single drive. (2 x 250GB drives in RAID-1 gives you 250GB      of usable storage).
      • Advantage: Data protection.
      • Disadvantage: We don't recommend RAID-1       for video. You end up with less capacity and when you add on the overhead       of the RAID, your throughput speed is actually less then a single drive       alone.
    • 001.jpgRAID 0+1
      RAID 0+1      is one way to get all the throughput benefits of RAID-0 and the data      protection of RAID-1. You would need 4 drives for this, with two pairs of      drives striped together as RAID-0, then the two RAID-0s mirrored.
      • Advantage: Combination of maximum       throughput and data protection.
      • Disadvantage: Cost of four drives for       configuration with overall storage capacity equal to just two of the       drives.

    • par5.jpgRAID 5
      RAID5 is our      top recommendation for video editing! A RAID 5 set-up      allows you to use parity bits that spread the risk of drive failure among      the other drives in the RAID. Keeping with my previous illustrations 4 x      250GB gives you 750GB of usable storage with even faster throughput then      RAID-0 and data protection.
      • Advantage: Combination of maximum       throughput and data protection without sacrificing half of the overall       storage capacity.
      • Disadvantage: Cost of four drives and       please keep in mind that 4 or more disks create lots of heat, so you       really need to take a solution like this outside of the computer.       External housings and connections will add to the cost.

    Which storage system should I use?
    As of January, 2011 the Videoguys' Techs have agreed on these storage recommendations based on the availability and prices of current products:

    • If you want the lowest possible cost, get a pair of      identical 7200RPM SATA drives (1TB or larger) and stripe them together      yourself. This increases the throughput of the drives and lets you use the      entire capacity. This is called a RAID-0 stripe. Striping together a pair      of 1TB drives will give you 2TB of screaming fast storage. You      can stripe them together using your operating systems Disk Management      utility. For even more performance get a PCIe SATA RAID controller card      with 3rd party RAID software utility and set up a RAID5 with four 1TB      drives to give you 3TB of lightning fast, redundant storage.
    • In the long run an external hard drive solution is      the better value for most digital video editors. While you will pay a      little more for an external storage solution you will find it worth every      penny.
    • No hassle opening up your computer to install them.
    • No excessive fan noise from the extra cooling      required by multiple hard drives in your case
    • No worries about the heat they generate deteriorating      other components in your machine.
    • You can "sneaker net" your data between      multiple computers – which means physically walking it from one machine to      the next.
    • They work with laptops and workstations.
    • You can easily migrate your media to a new      video-editing computer when the time comes to upgrade to a new one.
    • We also strongly recommend external storage in any      environment with a multi-purpose PC. You need to protect your precious      video memories and all the time you spent working on your video. If you      have to use the family computer for video editing wouldn't you feel better      knowing that you could simply turn off the external drive or safely remove      it while the kids used the computer?

    If you want to add an external storage solution to your PC or Mac; workstation or laptop; then we recommend the following solutions:

    • If you are using standard-definition DV footage and      making simple videos less than an hour long you can use a single external      drive solution. In order of preference we recommend connecting that drive      to eSata, FireWire 800, FireWire 400 or USB 2.0.
    • If you are working with videos longer than an hour,      or if you have some very creative and complex ideas, or if you are editing      HD footage; then you'll want an external RAID solution like the G-Tech      G-RAIDs.
    • While USB3 external drives and RAIDs are now      shipping, our best advice is to skip USB3, and get the new Intel      Thunderbolt based drives when they become available in late 2011.

    G-RAIDs come pre-configured in a RAID-0 stripe for maximum throughput and they're specifically designed for video editing with excellent cooling and air flow. Heat is the enemy of any hard drive and constant video storage will surely create a lot of heat. G-Tech has taken this into account on all the G-RAID solutions including the newest G-RAID 4. G-RAID 4 allows you to connect to your computer via eSATA (in addition to USB2, FW400 & FW800), which is much faster then FireWire and even more reliable.

    • If you are doing complex HD productions and you want      to have protection against drive failures than we recommend the G-Tech      G-SPEED eS. The G-SPEED eS connects to your PC or Mac via the G-Tech eSATA      PCIe RAID card and allows you to use the Videoguys top recommended RAID-5      the next level of storage. Many times that will include rack-mounted      solutions. configuration
    • If you are doing broadcast level uncompressed HD work      then you need
    • If you need to support multiple levels of      uncompressed HD you are getting into more expensive storage, requiring expensive      controller cards like NAS or FibreChannel. These cards can cost up to and      over $1,000. If you need allow access to your files by more then one      editor, you to add special networking hardware, software and expertise.

    We hope that this article gives you a better understanding of the various types of video storage and what you need for your own projects

    Videoguys recommends G-Tech as our preferred storage partner
    Heat is the enemy of all drives and Lacie and many other external drive vendors do not properly ventilate or cool their units. In addition the quality control on the drives these other vendors use in their drives are simply not as tight or rigorous as those used by G-Tech.

    G-Tech drives are designed for good air flow and heat dissipation. Their Raids are also fan cooled. Their quality control is excellent. We've been selling GTech storage for over 5 years and the long-term reliability has been superb. We've been banging on a G-Speed eS unit with our DIY6 rig for almost 6 months now. It simply works and works. In a RAID5 you get throughput speed and redundancy.

    G-Tech just introduced GRAID ver 4 with quad interface. Now you get USB, FireWire 400 & 800 and eSata. If your Mobo has an eSata port, this is a really nice solution. G-RAIDs are RAID0, so you don't get any redundancy.

     

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2011 10:41 AM   in reply to able123

    sample image from 2 posts up...format guide...

     

    sample format.jpg

     

     

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2011 9:17 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt
    then I declared Wine-thirty, and somehow, it just did not matter anymore.

     

    I'm not much of a drinker myself.  I always appreciate proper writing.  Makes things easier to read.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 3, 2011 8:55 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    ITS BEER THIRTY !

     

    YIPEE !

     

    had an easy day at work and got home early... kinda unusual in this biz...so its time to celebrate.

     

    spoke to a DIT guy on movie set yesterday re: some editing and digital camera ( pro cameras ) stuff... and I mentioned I use premiere pro cs3, and am learning stuff about editing etc...which is why I keep asking him questions....

     

    He said ( he's a nice guy ) .." ask away ! "

     

    He also said, " premiere is a GREAT product...and said he has CS5.

     

    however, he was using fcp on set with hd sdi from cameras to his DIT station ( 2 monitors ) where he was helping DP get the right lighting and exposure for the shots ( using a rec709 lut from camera )..

    there was also a video guy on the job, recording SD from the cameras ( 2 ) for playback.

     

    there isnt much time to just sit and "chat" on jobs...and things are moving fast etc ...so its not like I can just keep asking these guys questions and have them teach me things, you know ?  But my feeling is that being able to use luts is a big deal ...a really big deal .....for whatever is going to be used on sets for DIT ....

     

    megaplayground ( nyc post house and a new upcoming place for digital camera shoots )...is using fcp and avid...check there site out.

     

    so, my opinion .....adobe needs to talk to the camera manufacturers ( like arri for alexa and their prores output ) and get luts  happening on the fly ....with presets ....

     

     

    K, off for another glass of frosty beer

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 12, 2011 1:21 PM   in reply to earlyfilms01

    The college where I work started out with Premiere 6.0 in their film tech lab for our film students. The students and profs all complained and insisted on getting FCP. Problem was, the college not only didn't own any Macs, but the IT Director refused to allow Macs onto his network because they would "break" it. I'll admit, at the time, I was one of the students clamoring for FCP... but only because Premiere 6.0 was definitely lacking when compared to the FCP that was out at the time, but also because the PCs running 6.0 were Pentium 2s with 512MB of Ram, integrated video card, and single 10GB hard drive. Well, I digress...

     

    Two years ago they broke down and got rid of 6.0 and the horribly outdated computers and outfitted the entire lab (12 systems) with 24" iMacs with FCP. And then they bought several new cameras whose native footage doesn't work in FCP. You know what their solution was? Yep... buy CS5 and install it on all the Macs. So now they just struggle with how poorly Adobe operates on iMacs, and have wasted a ton of money on the iMacs and the FCP software. At that point I was already a convert to PrPro (I was on CS4 at the time, having used it religiously since CS3... I got out of the business temporarily between 6.0 and CS2) and tried to get them to replace their aging PCs with 6.0 with better PCs and CS5, but was ignored. Oh well. Now I get to "troubleshoot" things for them when PrPro won't launch properly or when they have trouble with other things--been forced into the mac world, as it were.

     

    I had to laugh last week, too, cause my graphic designer who works right above my office swears by Mac... he uses all Adobe products, and nevermind the fact that they work just as well (or better) on the PC--he's a Mac man to the core. He's got a Mac Pro and the video card died on it about three weeks ago. Could our IT department pop a new card in there? Nope... they had to send it off to Mac Authority forty miles away. Did he get it back the same day? Nope... it came back four days later with a new video card and a software "bandaid" of some sort that they promised would hold things together until they had time to reinstall the entire OS and all his programs--apparently something they did in swapping out the video card basically corrupted the whole machine. They also ended up "losing" most of his data (it's all still there, but his shortcuts and file structures are totally screwed up) and all his programs had to be re-authorized before they could be used. They sent it back to Mac Authority yesterday to get rebuilt. And all because he's on a Mac. Were he on a PC it would have been a simple matter of swapping out the card by our IT folks and he would've been on his way. Three weeks later he's still crippled and sending me stuff to do for him on my PC. And when I tell him to get a PC, he starts mocking and scorning... Oh well!

     
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