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Turn Sideloading Back On!

Jun 22, 2011 11:40 AM

The decision to remove sideloading is a huge blow. So every time I want to test my documents which range from 20-50mb I have to rely on the connection of my upload Internet speed to update the document...

 

Also, the decision to launch new tools without having the Apple store app ready is beyond incredibly ridiculous. I updated the tools without knowing this and spent an hour restoring the old tools.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 22, 2011 11:42 AM   in reply to Narkeeso

    welcome to the Thunderdome. my work has been stalled for over a week now because of both those issues you addressed.

     
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    Jun 22, 2011 12:27 PM   in reply to Matthew Cain

    Adobe's decision to kill sideloading is nothing but greedy and maddening to us users.

     

    -- Jeff

     
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  • Bob Bringhurst
    3,415 posts
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    Jun 22, 2011 4:21 PM   in reply to Narkeeso

    Sideloading .folio files is turned off for good. Publishers want to protect their content from being re-distributed. However, the DPS team is working on a solution that lets you add folios to a connected device through the use of an option in InDesign. Until that device preview option is in place, you have to go through the cloud.

     
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  • Bob Bringhurst
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    Jun 23, 2011 12:04 PM   in reply to jeffyerkey

    With sideloading, do you want the ability to distribute and sideload .folio files? Or do you want to be able to preview folios on an iPad without going through a server? In other words, if you could attach an iPad to your computer and choose an option in the Folio Builder panel that says something like "Preview on Mobile Device," would that work for you?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 23, 2011 1:03 PM   in reply to Narkeeso

    As discussed several times, sideloading will not come back. Adobe is working on solution to allow local viewing of folios but you'll have to be patient.

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 23, 2011 1:19 PM   in reply to Narkeeso

    On a larger scale the solution works great.  I no longer have to worry about people coming to meetings with different versions of the folios just because they didn't check their email (we often sent the exported folios to emails).  Clients traveling with their ipads and not their computers have had an easy time just downloading the folios for preview and giving notes.  So previewing wise the updated workflow creates efficiency, consistency, and simplicity across the platform.

     

    When the solution first was introduced i did notice some lagging in the design portion of workflow.  I traced the issue back to designers wanting to preview every little step they took on the ipad immediately after creating it (this only happened with one or two designers most were able to use the tools as intended in an efficient manner). As i explained to those few designers-- In the workflow, Ipad previewing is the step we take before sending a publication to APP creation and/or review.  If this was a print campaign - you wouldn't go running to a printer after every block of text you layout to see how it looks? i believe that same principle applies here.  The Desktop Content viewer is in place to give you as much preview as possible in a quick and easy manner.  So in some cases its a matter of how your actually using the tools.

     

    The argument i hear the most about brining back Sideloading is people saying " i wanted to use sideloading as my distribution method" -- But of course it was that exact method of pseudo-distribution that created Red Flags for publishers expecting some level or security for their publications.  I believe the "application to connected device" previewing option sounds like it will be a great compromise to those publishers concerned about security and designers wanting a quicker and/or offline preview method.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 23, 2011 2:02 PM   in reply to Bob Bringhurst

    Bob

     

    The latter. -- A preview technique for me only.

     

    -- Jeff

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 23, 2011 1:43 PM   in reply to Bob Bringhurst

    I would like to share thre work with my students.  For them to be able to access the content from a drive or "Preview on Mobile Device

     
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    Jun 23, 2011 1:56 PM   in reply to RenaldoLawrence

    So you want to use the content viewer as a distribution method rather than a preview method?

     
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    Jun 23, 2011 2:05 PM   in reply to Narkeeso

    Well said, Michael!

     
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  • Bob Bringhurst
    3,415 posts
    May 29, 2007
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    Jun 23, 2011 2:18 PM   in reply to Narkeeso

    Turning off sideloading to prevent the redistribution of folios IS the real story. I can't think of another reason it would be turned off. It would be great if we had an offline device preview feature in place when we turned off sideloading, but unfortunately, the team wasn't able to implement it in time.

     

    My guess is that the new offline device preview feature will be available in August, but please don't hold me to that. Until then, you have to go through the cloud to preview folios on mobile devices. The sideloading of .folio files will never be turned on again, not even temporarily.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 23, 2011 2:25 PM   in reply to Bob Bringhurst

    Bob, you wrote:

     

    "Turning off sideloading to prevent the redistribution of folios IS the real story."

     

    For the record, can you point us to a detailed Adobe post or please outline for us herein, the logic surrounding this decision -- and be detailed. I am not getting it.  -- And it sounds like others are not either.

     

    To us, it appears as if Adobe is just plain being *bleeping bleeps* about this.  It makes zero sense.

     

    -- Jeff

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 23, 2011 3:11 PM   in reply to Narkeeso

    "It would be great if we had an offline device preview feature in place  when we turned off sideloading, but unfortunately, the team wasn't able  to implement it in time."

     

    If having sideloading available for a few months, before now, was not a problem then why not wait until you did have a solution?

     
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  • Bob Bringhurst
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    May 29, 2007
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    Jun 23, 2011 3:18 PM   in reply to Narkeeso

    Several publishers have already chimed in on this. They don't want users to download their July issue, extract it from their iPad, and post the .folio file for others to sideload. They want a secure workflow in which they sell content through stores or subscriptions.

     

    It's unfortunate that we didn't have offline device previewing in place before we turned off sideloading. It's a high priority.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 23, 2011 3:25 PM   in reply to Narkeeso

    That being said our companies personal story (i believe i expressed it in another thread):

    During our experience for example we had our 12th issue offered for interactive PDF.  We were quickly notified of its illegal distribution within a month.  When we contacted the service the file was being distributed on, they informed us that the file had been downloaded over 5,500 times.  This is a little over $27,000 (@$5 an issue) in sales we lost within that month.  I will say the act did generate some new readers, but piracy spreads like a virus, once we would get it taken off of one website, five more would pop up.  After the 15th issue we stopped offering the magazine in PDF format. So moving forward with DPS ... Security was a MAJOR concern. 

     

     

    I agree if people want to be evil they will find a way to somehow exploit the system, however riding the system of sideloading was an easy fix to a HUGE loophole.   So if a small publication is losing a min of $27,000 a month in sales -- you can image a large publication loses. Sideloading, as it was, was a major concern for publishers - esp the ones that are paying big bucks for the solution and using it directly for what it was intended to do. 

     

    Sideloading was not part of the official tool set when it was released- so it wasn't anything they took away-- it is more or less assumed if you use prerelease software there is a chance a feature may/maynot appear in the official product.  -- And Adobe is working on an offline solution -- which is Great!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 23, 2011 7:24 PM   in reply to Narkeeso

    Acrobat.com is/was down from 5PM - 8PM PDT for Service Maintenance.

    Adobe does an Ok job by announcing these downtimes when you login to Acrobat.com as well as: http://www.adobe.com/support/acrobatdotcom/ Ive also recommended to my own clients to follow the Acrobat and Acrobatdotcom Twitter feeds.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 24, 2011 4:48 AM   in reply to Narkeeso

    let me illustrate the problem with the "cloud" here:

     

    http://www.activityschoolbus.com/images/prek_theme_fog.jpg

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 24, 2011 4:49 AM   in reply to David Ben

    Yea I just want some way I can get the content to my students if I don't

    have their machine available.

     
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    Jun 24, 2011 8:03 AM   in reply to Bob Bringhurst

    Hi Bob

    Absolutely yes, all we want is to test our content on the iPad, without having to go through the cloud first.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 24, 2011 8:18 AM   in reply to Bob Bringhurst

    effing big publishers, what a load of bullsh*t, every publisher in the world tells you that for every magazine bought, it is read by 4 other people or more and they actually sell their advertising on that basis, so they can't control how many people read their print mag for free, but they want to be anal about the digital world.

     

    How many people are really that bothered about extracting a mag and then giving it to a friend? I dont even know how to do it! and thats because I couldn't be bothered!! So OK, then some youngster finds out how to do it and posts it on a blog somewhere, would it have that big an impact? again magazines currently have many readers that don't pay for it.

     

    Jeez, give me a break!!

     

    Alistair

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 24, 2011 9:32 AM   in reply to mobly

    I agree. Who among us would actually take the time to first download the Adobe Viewer, figure out how to hack and extract last month's "Martha Stewart Living" -- and sit back to bake muffins?  I have been in digital publishing since Aldus PageMaker -- and I certainly could not figure out how to do this!

     

    Piracy figures and perceived lost income proceed from a false assumption that every hacked download is (for example) $4.99 lost.  Not true.  The vast majority of illegal downloaders, if they did not have access to the illegal copy, would NEVER buy that same content!  Do you think 20 million people would have rushed out to buy Rambo 5 on DVD?

     

    Adobe is letting large-scale publishers lead them around by the nose.  It's unfortunate.

     

    -- Jeff

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 24, 2011 9:39 AM   in reply to jeffyerkey

    Do they really have a choice? Do you tell your biggest customers to take a hike when they want something?

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 24, 2011 9:45 AM   in reply to Bob Levine

    You always have a choice. That choice begins by logically and effectively building the case with the client why the way it is is the best way for the entire ecosystem end-to-end.

     

    If that fails, take it to your lawyer :-)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 24, 2011 10:15 AM   in reply to Narkeeso

    Perhaps if DPS had been a bit more developed, Adobe would have been in a stronger position to say no to their largest customer.

    However, saying that, considering the timescales, DPS is still and excellent product; it just needs a few more months to iron out some wrinkles.

     

    Talking of making things more open, well, IMHO, HTML5 will give us that. It wont be long before all page layout programmes like InDesign, Quark etc

    will be underwritten in HTML5, or be exportable as HTML5, and hey presto one file type, straight to print or the web. It doesnt take much to work out does it?

    Upload your print HTML5 files to the cloud, the images get converted on the fly, or indeed no longer need converting, and the iPad views them just as easily as the printing press. So maybe the App stores wont have as long a shelf life as we think? Things change too quickly for that :-)

     

    Hmm, where is that patent form .....

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 24, 2011 10:30 AM   in reply to mobly

    Upon having another cup of coffee, it occurs to me that this should not be an 'either/or' discussion.  Adobe has some of the brightest engineers in the world. Are you telling me that they could not have written in a security routine regarding sideloading that says in essence, "Hey! do you want to provision this Mac (or PC) to this tablet device? Great, I shall make it so."

     

    Conversely, they could also make a setting for [insert name of huge publishing giant here] that sets a flag to a Folio to  "published" which in essence cripples all illegally sideloaded magazines?   For pete's sake, I own legally purchased copies of Creative Suites that have just stopped running because Adobe thinks I don't own it, and then have to call a number to get it re-provisioned.  I think they could do this.

     

    The underlying issue driving this thread is that Adobe is trying to migrate from being a product company to being a licensing company -- and they just don't know how to do it. 

     

    -- Jeff

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 24, 2011 11:52 AM   in reply to Narkeeso

    All arguments we have heard before which i dont know why its being discussed again.  Adobe already said "ITS GONE NO MORE!".  In all seriousness the removal of sideloading fueled people to find exploits of the Content viewer and post them in this very forum.  So although you can say "well i wouldn't even know how to do that", obviously some of the most avid users have found a way.  Other solutions disabled and developed alternative preview methods around the concept of security and to remain attractive to customers.  (software like Mag+ quickly moved to a push to device method) Of course its the paying Digital Publishers that are investing in the solution that brought up the security of the sideloading method as an issue.  We ourselves have developed presentations for software and gaming companies and when showing them the solution a few months back the first thing they said was "no. its too simple for a bad employee to leak a Folio file to the community and anyone can just load it into this Viewer app? NO NO NO find us another solution".  So like Bob said to push those very customers in the mud is silly when they are the ones throwing down money to use the solution and you're still looking for the free and workaround ways.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 24, 2011 1:18 PM   in reply to Narkeeso

    Ok great you licence your apple development software so you don't think you should have to pay Adobe to license the Digital Publishing suite? No offense but your squawking about "i do html5 this and i can code that" why not just code your own applications? or webview applications? I mean this solution is directly aimed at Publishers looking for the ease and security.  And yes I did point out Mag+ but you'll find that other solutions are more costly and with less features.  Several people have chimed in with their experience with other solutions on this forum as well.  I mean your entitled to your feature request (side loading) and opinion, but publishers like myself (you know those guys that are paying that $9,000-14,000) have expressed our concern about the solution and its lack of security measures.  And yes you yourself may be willing to pay $100 for the solution to do things it wasn't directly intended to do, but why throw mud at those publishers that are using the solution in its directed form? In all seriousness it wasn't just Large publishers that expressed their concern, it was any business that had information to lose in a flimsy file exchange format like sideloading.  It was great for quick testing in the prerelease- but it was awful as a feature to business that have money, intellectual property, and business to lose from its exploits.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 24, 2011 1:57 PM   in reply to JoyceCMYK

    Im sure the arguement would have swayed the other way had sideloading been kept as it was.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 24, 2011 2:02 PM   in reply to David Ben

    "Adobe is letting large-scale publishers lead them around by the nose.  It's unfortunate."

     

     

    Yes i would have been right there in front saying "Adobe is letting those free-loaders lead them by the nose.  Its' unfortunate".  I mean seriously would you pay the $10,000 if sideloading was re-enabled? im guessing for a majority .. its no... it wouldn't have any influence on your purchasing, you still wouldn't buy it.  But sideloading being gone was a purchasing point for many publishers.   We of course expressed our concerns before purchasing.

     

     

    Adobe is meeting the middle and developing a secure offline preview system.  Is that not enough?

     

     

     

     

     
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