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Adding basic effects to footage creates flicker

Jul 11, 2011 3:09 PM

I'm trying to understand why adding colour correction, or auto contrast to my some of my clips is causing them to have flicker. It's not a consistent flicker either, but random.

 

The footage affected is 720p at 29.97fps in a timeline with the same settings. The raw footage appears fine. Once effects are added, the image stutters. I have rendered the preview files and the issue remains the same, likewise when exported.

 

Any thoughts on why this may be occuring?

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 11, 2011 3:26 PM   in reply to SirN8

    Try staying away from "auto" filters. They do have tendency to cause this problem.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 11, 2011 6:11 PM   in reply to SirN8

    Welcome to the forum.

     

    As Jim says, the Auto Effects seldom work as one would want (except in absolutely perfect situations), but you are in luck. Nearly every Auto Effect has a "manual" version. One slight exception is Shadow & Highlight, but it has an Auto checkbox, so you can turn Auto OFF.

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 15, 2011 4:03 PM   in reply to SirN8

    That is what most of us have found. If everything (and I pretty much mean everything) is constant for a Clip, then they do OK. Still, the power and control of their "big-brothers" is so much better, that few find the Auto Effects useful.

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 19, 2011 11:05 AM   in reply to SirN8

    Don't know.  I just avoid the automatic settings and do the work manually, so I have more control over the final image.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 19, 2011 11:26 AM   in reply to SirN8

    I like Magic Bullet Looks and Colorista for these things.

     

    http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/products/all/magic-bullet-looks/

     

    http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/products/all/magic-bullet-colorista-II /

     

    PP also has a built-in Three Way Color Corrector.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 28, 2011 8:55 PM   in reply to SirN8

    Obviously, Adobe needs to fix this instead of us continuing to accommodate their sloppy testing with work-arounds.  Shadow/Highlight flickers even in full manual mode.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 28, 2011 9:06 PM   in reply to hpmoon

    I find this interesting, as I use S & H very often, though always on manual, and never on the default, Auto. I have never had any flicker with any of my applications, which also often have Levels (manual), applied first. Not sure what you are seeing, but I'd suggest that you tell us about your Source Footage, and also your Sequence Preset, plus your Export settings, as my gut tells me that there is something in those specs.

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 28, 2011 9:17 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    the_wine_snob wrote:

     

    I find this interesting, as I use S & H very often, though always on manual, and never on the default, Auto. I have never had any flicker with any of my applications, which also often have Levels (manual), applied first. Not sure what you are seeing, but I'd suggest that you tell us about your Source Footage, and also your Sequence Preset, plus your Export settings, as my gut tells me that there is something in those specs.

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     

    This surely won't result in any further diagnosis, because this is obviously just a plain and simple Adobe-typical bug that they don't take action on because forum mods here simply defend Adobe endlessly with "I never saw that," but anyway:

     

    1. For the last time, we are all talking about a problem in FULL manual mode.  It is not productive to say that this could be caused by automatic settings.

    2. Tons of people have this problem.  That you don't see it, doesn't make it disappear.  Google this.

    3. The source is an MPEG-2 720p file.

    4. The sequence settings match that:  720p.

    5. I've tried with MPE GPU on and off, though it would be an unacceptable bug if that mattered.

    6. I have tried the bogus rumored fix of changing the inexplicably lame Black Clip 0.01% default to 0% -- no dice.

    7. It is the only effect applied to the entire clip.  It is at the native resolution and framerate, with blending off.

    8. The Shadow/Highlight settings are static, without variation due to keyframing.

    9. I am exporting back to H.264 1280x720p, Level 3.1, average bitrate 8 Mbps.

    10. This doesn't just occur at export; it also simply shows up as bands dividing pre- and post-effect during pause on the timeline.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 29, 2011 2:33 AM   in reply to hpmoon

    There no reason to rant on the mods here, as most everyone is a volunteer and sincerely want to help people.  If it seems like some problems are minimized or not taken seriously enough, it may be due to the large number of "BUG" identifications that end up being something else. So there is sometimes a little inertia to overcome.

     

    That said, I tried the S&H effect myself and sure enough it flickers pretty badly in both manual and auto mode. I don't usually use it, I normally use First light, Colorista, ProcAmp or the 3-way CC for fixes, but it's a bummer for those who do.  I have CS5.0.3 on Win7, and tried ot on Canon 25F mpeg footage from an XHA1.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 29, 2011 4:34 AM   in reply to hpmoon

    The answer to your question is in post #13 here:

     

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/3889344#3889344

     

    Do not continue to post the same thing across multiple topics.

     

    -Jeff

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 29, 2011 6:36 PM   in reply to Jeff Bellune

    Jeff Bellune wrote:

     

    The answer to your question is in post #13 here:

     

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/3889344#3889344

     

    Do not continue to post the same thing across multiple topics.

     

    -Jeff

     

    I have no idea why you keep linking people over to the help file for  the Shadow/Highlight  effect.  There is absolutely no bit of information  there that could lead  to any resolution of this issue.  It's an  example of why people can get  so inflamed here; regulars like yourself purport to offer answers (a) without  thinking about  whether it will actually address the problem; (b)  defending Adobe as a  starting point; and (c) taking the easiest path of  citing  already-established generalities.

     

    This is a bug,  plain  and simple.  It dates back years, and hundreds of people have reported  it across the Web.  [Advice:  spend a minute looking.]  I have submitted  repeated bug  reports.  Many, many other users have too.  This is a  simple case of  Adobe letting the issue slide.  Like a billion others.   One tiny example:  ever wondered what those Auto Black Levels and Auto  White  Levels buttons do in the Fast Color Corrector?  Absolutely  nothing.  That's been the case for several years now.  They even mention it in Lynda.com tutorials, saying that Adobe doesn't bother fixing it.  Great job,  Adobe.

     

    And as for cross-posting, the admonition is D.O.A. because you are cross-referencing yourself.  So I am combatting your "the issue is resolved" cross-references to my "the issue is not and never was resolved" cross-references.  When the latter is true, it's especially useful to make sure every thread guides people to the right next step, which is to ignore the blanket defenses of Adobe and seek a solution.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 30, 2011 4:27 PM   in reply to hpmoon

    The help files make it clear that the behavior you are seeing is "as designed".  If you don't like that behavior, then the feature request form is the appropriate channel to make your opinion known to the people who can actually do something about it.

     

    I didn't delete *all* of your cross-postings since there is useful and valuable information in both places.  Despite the potential for confusion, I felt that the info you provided may prove useful for others in the future should they search for information about similar issues.  My link is designed to assist future users find relevant information.

     

    -Jeff

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 30, 2011 9:30 PM   in reply to Jeff Bellune

    Jeff Bellune wrote:

     

    The help files make it clear that the behavior you are seeing is "as designed".  If you don't like that behavior, then the feature request form is the appropriate channel to make your opinion known to the people who can actually do something about it.

     

    I didn't delete *all* of your cross-postings since there is useful and valuable information in both places.  Despite the potential for confusion, I felt that the info you provided may prove useful for others in the future should they search for information about similar issues.  My link is designed to assist future users find relevant information.

     

    -Jeff

     

    At no risk of being overdramatic, I'll conclude that this proves you will defend Adobe to no end, but perhaps more dangerously, you simply are innaccurate and inclined to mislead people.  We come to these forums generally seeking advice.  It's poisonous to send people places that don't address the stated concern at all, and in the process, inflames more dislike of an already disliked massive corporation.  Who supposedly don't compensate you one penny.

     

    But hey, maybe I'm missing something, so let's hear the explanation on how "the behavior [we] are seeing is 'as designed'."  Surely Adobe designed the effect so that it would wildly band at varying spots in the frame, and result in flickering during both timeline playback and rendered output.  Jeff Bellune says Adobe designed the effect to flicker randomly.  (Unfortunately, that is nowhere to be found on the standard Help page for Shadow/Highlight that Jeff Bellune has linked to a half-dozen times, ignoring everyone.

     

    If you think this comes across as unreasonably harsh, bear in mind that the consumer relationship with a massive corporation is inherently confrontational, when something fails to work.  There's no time to get precious about these things.  And as long as you've got the Community Professional badge under your name, there we go.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 31, 2011 5:45 PM   in reply to hpmoon

    This is the last time I'm going to bother responding to you on this issue.

     

    let's hear the explanation on how "the behavior [we] are seeing is 'as designed'."  Surely Adobe designed the effect so that it would wildly band at varying spots in the frame, and result in flickering during both timeline playback and rendered output. 

    Now you're being deliberately combative.  Your initial complaint was that you couldn't reduce the flickering because temporal smoothing wasn't available in manual mode.  First Todd, and then I, pointed you to the help files which clearly stated that temporal smoothing was only available in automatic mode.  It is that limited functionality that is "as designed", and that's the behavior that you should try to change via the feature request form.

     

    If you continue to post inflammatory content in this topic, or in any other, your posts will simply be deleted.  You have been warned.

     

    -Jeff

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 24, 2011 8:22 PM   in reply to Bill Engeler

    What is the s & H effect?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 12, 2012 9:49 PM   in reply to Saad Khan

    I'd just like to remark as a visitor and now few posts that your comments Jeff i think are out of line with a poster that seems to me quite "uncombative" and just trhing to get to the point....too bad a good discussion is down the tubes as i now try to figure out this screw up with the shadow highlight effect...it has put me back 4 days now with re-renders/trying to fix and only day 3 did i figure out it was just the effect....why is this effect still a problem? this is a real let down and as the poster hp moon states....why has adobe after so long not addressed this or just remove this filter that causes problems for a pile of folks....verbal warfare just goes no-where and i can dutifully empathize with this poster having spent so much of my time trying to figure out what went wrong when adobe knew all along....

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 12, 2012 10:06 PM   in reply to johnnyfriday

    johnny johnny johnny...

     

    Try using the Levels controls or the Curves Controls ..and dont get involved in others issues if you want a solution for your own issue.

     

    This old thread has been well discussed and the solutions given by experienced members are fact not fiction.

     

    Highlight and Shadow work as per design.  Choosing that Effect is only one solution option to meet the same end by a different route.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 12, 2012 10:41 PM   in reply to shooternz

    shooternz wrote:

     

    johnny johnny johnny...

     

    Try using the Levels controls or the Curves Controls ..and dont get involved in others issues if you want a solution for your own issue.

     

    This old thread has been well discussed and the solutions given by experienced members are fact not fiction.

     

    Highlight and Shadow work as per design.  Choosing that Effect is only one solution option to meet the same end by a different route.

    Your response is unsubstantive and par for the course defending Adobe no-matter-what.  Not sure why you think they would notice your loyalty, because they won't.  Unless you're in the bag for them as an employee, gift recipient, etc.  That's certainly widespread at these forums.

     

    Anyway, advising someone to use a completely different effect -- Levels or Curves -- is no solution for the confirmed bug in the Shadows/Highlights effect.  The solution is, oh I don't know, maybe fixing it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 13, 2012 9:40 AM   in reply to hpmoon

    advising someone to use a completely different effect -- Levels or Curves -- is no solution

     

    I disagree.  The goal here, as always, is to get the job done.  If one method doesn't work, for whatever reason, then another method will be your only option.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 13, 2012 10:32 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Jim Simon wrote:

     

    advising someone to use a completely different effect -- Levels or Curves -- is no solution

     

    I disagree.  The goal here, as always, is to get the job done.  If one method doesn't work, for whatever reason, then another method will be your only option.

    All I can do is just repeat what I wrote, adding that it applies specifically to you too:  "Your response is unsubstantive and par for the course defending Adobe no-matter-what.  Not sure why you think they would notice your loyalty, because they won't.  Unless you're in the bag for them as an employee, gift recipient, etc.  That's certainly widespread at these forums."

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 13, 2012 7:34 PM   in reply to hpmoon

    There you go.  You stick to your guns on this.  I'm sure Adobe will have a patch out by Tuesday next.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 13, 2012 9:26 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Shadow-Highlight-on-on-4.jpgShadow-Highlight-ON-1.jpgyeah, i know...i posted on the thread since i spent i think 2 days pulling my hair out with this flicker thing...i was ready to throw adobe cs 6 in the lake....and go back running to FCP and prores....I'd rather that this effect--that caused me 2 wasted days of life---be REMOVED. I find that it works only about HALF the time...if i have one clip with it and it works well...The i add to the next clip that OVERLAPS it...then flickerig happens...if i remove it on one of the clips...then it goes away...To hell with that effect. I can't imagine the poor souls that don't bother with the fourms that did all this effect/color work and then are stumped about what to do...I was and only by chance jumped on this adobe forum. Now i'm here to stay...but for sake of sanity and reputation--why have that effect there? it's obviously a problem. Yes, there are other ways to deal with the color work, but hell, it's a great tool when working correctly. If after a year of problems it's not resolved it merely shows Adobe's unwillingness to deal with it...so what then does that say about other "bugs" down the road that we either don't know about or have yet to discover? This is why i left Adobe some 12 years back....i was hoping that things had changed and i'm not fully convinced one way or the other yet.

     

    And for fun.....here's my headache attached--only two of hundreds of examples i have....

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 13, 2012 9:31 PM   in reply to johnnyfriday

    If after a year of problems it's not resolved it merely shows Adobe's unwillingness to deal with it.

     

    I'm sure you're right.  I can imagine the Premiere Pro engineering team just sitting around with their coffee and crumb cakes, nothing to do but gab about all the bugs they left behind on purpose, having a good laugh at our expense.

     

    It ain't right, I tells ya!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 14, 2012 12:20 AM   in reply to johnnyfriday

    @johnyfriday

     

    Can you advise if you have a Matrox element in your workflow please. That maybe part of your "issue".

     

    BTW. I dont see much value in the effect considering better "solutions" and would have no issue if it were removed from the tool set.

     

    But would have to say though...the issue comes up with that particular effect in the past  and it has been resolved by the advice given.

     

    Matrox on the other hand has come up regularly as an "issue" in others "issues"

     

    @ hpmoon

    Sorry...your irrational posts ...position you as a troll.  I suggested  a workflow that you disregard as irrelevant to being helpful to a poster and you accuse me (and others) of being sychophantic.

     

    Personally I would like to see you banned for abuse and being a troll.  Others can decide that.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 14, 2012 5:58 AM   in reply to shooternz

    I do have a matrox MXO2, however it's not being utilized at the moment and not setup as the player....Matrox does not have current drivers yet for CS 6. I agree, there are other tools, it's just that i put a lot of effort into my coloring only to find this at the end of the road. That said, i see that (from other posts) it is a constant issue...and would be best left out of the tool-set. I'll never go back to it now that's for sure.

     

    thanks, JOhnny

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 14, 2012 2:59 PM   in reply to shooternz

    shooternz wrote:

     

    @ hpmoon

    Sorry...your irrational posts ...position you as a troll.  I suggested  a workflow that you disregard as irrelevant to being helpful to a poster and you accuse me (and others) of being sychophantic.

     

    Personally I would like to see you banned for abuse and being a troll.  Others can decide that.

    Not gonna happen, "shooternz."  My posts are the only rational thing in this thread, where rationality is problem-solving and not shrugging off bugs.  And clearly it's threatening enough to invoke the schoolboy desperation of wishing for a nark and a ban.  Is it so fragile around here?

     

    And back to the issue:  Adobe needs to fix it, or admit it cannot/will not.  Simple.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 14, 2012 4:37 PM   in reply to hpmoon

    My posts are the only rational thing in this thread, where rationality is problem-solving

     

    Rather ironic coming from someone who'd rather complain about a bug than implement an alternate method of achieving the same end.

     

    [Edited for content]

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 12, 2012 10:01 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Are there any 3rd party plugins that have the same shadow/highlight effect but without the occasional "flicker" results?

     

    Shadow/highlight has such a unique effect and can look like hdr in some circumstances.

     

    Also, AE's shadow/highlight effect appears to be exactly the same as PPs. In the past I think I read in one of the threads someone mentioning that they didn't have the flicker problem on the exact same clip in AE with the same shadow/highlight settings applied. Has anyone experienced this...shadow/highlight had flicker in PP but not AE(even though there may be no seemingly logical explanation why this would be)?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 12, 2012 10:25 AM   in reply to Intercostal

    I should mention that to 'get around' the flicker problem in PP I once rendered a flicker plagued clip as a tiff still image sequence(without shadow/highlight applied), brought the stills into Photoshop, applied PS's shadow highlight as an action to every single still tiff in the sequence, imported the PS applied shadow/highlight tiff sequence back into PP.........and it STILL had the flicker...... the PS applied shadow/highlight image sequence had a flicker!

     

    There may be some "dormant" exposure issues that shadow/highlight "exposes" under some settings.

     

    Like many have mentioned ....auto, manual, temporal smoothing, etc.... on certain clips the flicker remains regardless of a variety of settings.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 4, 2012 8:51 PM   in reply to Intercostal

    I use the Shadow/Highlight tool extensively in Photoshop, and hoped to employ it as much with Premiere Pro. I experienced the flickering problem today, and after reading this thread and disabling the Shadow/Highlight tool, the flickering went away. The flickering and banding renders this otherwise wonderful tool useless, and Adobe should either remove it or fix it.

     

    I'm glad that I found the cause of the problem in this thread, but its a drag to wade through all the personal drama to find useful information. If you want Adobe to fix flaws, submit bug reports and feature requests.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 24, 2014 3:16 PM   in reply to davidp158

    Yep I get this too on auto and manual mode with shadow and highlight and auto color - using a cheap and cheerful Panasonic GH2 format (AVCHD .MTS).

     

    I find on manual mode the degree to which you crank up the values relates to the amount of flicker. I can only imagine that it goes through the media frame by frame and adjusts each differently.

     

    I do not understand the comment 'work as per design'?  Wot - it was designed to flicker?

     

    The trouble is the software engineers are not editors and do not even appear to have tested the filters in real life situations.

     

    Generally I love PPro CC (using 7.1) but these sort of niggles are frustrating.

     
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