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Entire timeline plays smoothly; chapter playlist stutters regularly

Jul 12, 2011 7:10 PM

I have a DVD layout of NTSC widescreen footage with menus containing: (1) a "Play All" button which plays the full timeline and (2) "Scene Selection" buttons which play various chapter playlists from the same timeline.  The full timeline plays perfectly and smoothly throughout. When certain chapter playlists (even some containing only a single chapter) are selected, they play all the way through but they have about a quarter-second stutter (both audio & video freeze) in a regular pattern which occurs approximately every 16 seconds.  I have rebuilt the Encore project from scratch (except that each time I re-used the same encoded video produced by Premiere), but I keep getting the same stutter on the same chapter playlists but never on the exact same footage when it plays directly from the full timeline.

 

Has anyone had this or a similar problem?  Any ideas?

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 12, 2011 8:15 PM   in reply to vincent1127

    Never had that problem. My main idea is that it makes no sense!

     

    What could cause a stutter when played in a chapter playlist, but not when playing through the main timeline. Hmmm. The first guess is always overrides. Are there any?

     

    The problem occurs too often and too many times to be a chapter point or other oddity.

     

    Are some chapter playlists okay?

     
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    Jul 13, 2011 10:01 AM   in reply to vincent1127

    I have never read of this. As I use Playlists much more often, than Chapter Playlists, I have not encountered this either.

     

    Can you tell us about your Video and Audio Assets on the Timeline, and also how you got them into Encore?

     

    Was it via ADL (Adobe Dynamic Link), or via Import?

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     
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    Apr 4, 2013 4:57 PM   in reply to Stan Jones

    Might make no sense, but I have the same issue.  I have a 1 hour 40 minute video in PremierePro CS5.  If I author a DVD using Adobe Encore with the plain, vanilla BUILD defaults, it plays smooth as silk.  If I use Encore to add a menu based on chapter playlists, the DVD includes several "hiccoughs" in both audio and video.  By this I mean that there is a fraction of a second pause.  I have re-authored the show several times, and the hiccoughs are absolutely constant.  Exactly same places.  In all instances they fall at the beginning of a chapter.  This occurs when I am playing the entire video, not individual chapters.

     

    I have tried reducing the bitrate and changing various settings, but the problem persists.  Any advice would be appreciated.

     
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    Apr 4, 2013 5:31 PM   in reply to hfrankWI

    What you are describing is not quite the same as vincent's. Your stutters are consistent.

     

    Are these single chapter, chapter playlists? Or what?

     

    Are you using any overrides?

     

    Please post a screenshot of your flowchart.

     
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    Apr 5, 2013 12:26 AM   in reply to hfrankWI

    It sounds as though you have put end actions at the end of each chapter on your main timeline and then links between the chapters - that is at the end of a chapter you have a link to the following chapter.  If you are using chapter playlists, you should mark the chapter points on the timeline, plus an and action for the complete timeline only.

     

    You then put an end action for each chapter playlists ,with a Menu button linked to each Chapter Playlist.

     

    The other possibility is that you have introduced over-rides?

     
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    Apr 7, 2013 8:14 AM   in reply to Stan Jones

    They are chapter playlists, but I think I’ve solved the problem.  The hesitations disappeared when I eliminated the Encore-generated menus.  I recalled that in constructing my menus in Photoshop, I’d followed a tutorial instruction and set the pixel aspect ratio at 1920x1152 and that whenever I brought up any of the menu pages in Photoshop, I got the following message.

     

     

     

     

    Since the all of the hesitations occurred at chapter markers I thought that perhaps the correction issue might have caused a momentary pause.  I reconstructed the menus in 1920x1080 and the problems disappeared.

     
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    Apr 7, 2013 8:36 AM   in reply to hfrankWI

    Glad you got it working. But I will note that that is not the correct size for a DVD, and some odd sizes will create problems with highlight positions. If it is working for you, that is good.

     

    Also, it is unlikely that any menu characteristic would cause the problems you describe.

     
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    Apr 7, 2013 8:38 AM   in reply to Alan Craven

    I don’t have any overrides, but I did put end actions at the end of each chapter—end actions to send the viewer back to the SELECTIONS menu.  I found Encore to be the most user-brutal program that I’ve encountered in my career—and I began hard wiring 80x80 jumper boards in an IBM 709 in 1962.  For your amusement, I attach the ENCORE MENUS for DUMMIES that I wrote to vent my frustration.   The end action stuff is on p. 15.

     

    The problem, by the way, was entirely due to the menus.  I noticed that all seven of the hesitations occurred at chapter markers, and I also recalled that I had (as described in the attachment)  followed a tutorial instruction and set the pixel aspect ratio for the menus I was creating at 1920x1152 and that whenever I brought up any of the menu pages in Photoshop, I got the following message: 

     

    Pixel aspect ratio correction is for preview

    purposes only.  Turn it off for maximum image

    quality.

     

     

    Since the all of the hesitations occurred at chapter markers I thought that perhaps the correction issue might have caused a momentary pause. I reconstructed the menus in 1920x1080 and the problems disappeared.

     

    As long as I have your attention, though, I have another mystery.  When I begin a DVD build (and, yes, I have selected DVD and not Bluray), Encore appears to default to MPEG2-Bluray format.  I say this because if I check the project settings and confirm that I’m building a DVD and then choose Edit Quality Presets, the FORMAT box shows MPEG2-Bluray, rather than MPEG2-DVD.   Why does Encore default to MPEG2-DVD when I have most emphatically instructed it that I’m building a DVD, and should I change this option to MPEG2-DVD for DVD output?

     

    Thank you very much for your substantive reply to my problem.

     

     

    Harry Frank

    Western Impressions Photography

     
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    Apr 7, 2013 9:17 AM   in reply to Stan Jones

    I’m guessing that you are referring to the menu size that I wound up with, viz., 1920 x 1080.  So . . . . ?  We’re waiting . . . . .   What IS the correct size for a DVD menu?

     

    HF

     
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    Apr 7, 2013 9:39 AM   in reply to hfrankWI

    Link to DVD Demystified FAQ http://forums.adobe.com/thread/544206

     

    In Encore, for a DVD, you do NOT select a menu with HD in the title

     
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    Apr 7, 2013 11:32 AM   in reply to John T Smith

    I appreciate your quick reply, but I’m just a bit puzzled by your answer. 

     

    On the Edit Quality Presets menu, the Format options are

     

     

     

    H.264 Blu-ray

     

    MPEG2-DVD

     

    MPEG2-Blu-ray

     

     

     

    The Preset options for MPEG2-DVD are

     

     

     

    DV 23.976 High quality 4Mb VBR 2 Pass

     

    DV 23.976 High quality 7Mb VBR 2 Pass

     

    DV 23.976 High quality 8Mb CBR 1 Pass

     

    DV 23.976 Low quality 4Mb CBR 1 Pass

     

    DV High quality 4Mb VBR 2 Pass

     

    DV High quality 7 Mb VBR 2 Pass

     

    DV High quality 8 Mb CBR 1 Pass

     

    DV Low quality 4 Mb CBR 1 Pass

     

    Progressive High quality 7 Mb VBR 2 Pass

     

     

     

    I do not see any title or any option that says “HD.” 

     

     

     

    Please clarify.

     

     

     

    Thank you,

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Harry Frank

     

    Western Impressions Photography

     
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    Apr 7, 2013 12:22 PM   in reply to hfrankWI

    Blu-Ray is used for High Definition, DVD is used for Standard Definition.  You are quoting Edit quality presets in yor post, not menu template sizes!

     

    I still maintain as I did at the start of this thread, that the most likely reason for "stutters at the chapter points in your timeline is that you have some sort of link or action entered at the chapter points.  If you are using Chapter playlists, then your timeline should have Chapter points, But nothing else.  The action for ending the video and returning to the menu is placed at he end of the chapter playlist.

     

    In fact you state in post #8 that you have such end actions at the chapter markers in your timeline.  remove them and your stutter will go with them.

     

    The size of your menu backgrounds for DVD depends on whether you are in PAL or NTSC territory - unlike HD, the frame sizes are different in the two areas.

     
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    Apr 7, 2013 12:24 PM   in reply to hfrankWI

    The question was "correct size for a DVD menu"

     

    in... for example... C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe\Adobe Encore CS5\Library\Education

     

    There is a menu named Class Menu HD

    and another

    NTSC_Chalkboard Menu

     

    One of those menu files is for HD, the other is not

     

    What you are posting has nothing to do with what you asked... the size for a DVD menu

     

    The VIDEO for a DVD should be MPEG2-DVD... not one of the BluRay presets

     
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    Apr 7, 2013 1:17 PM   in reply to Alan Craven

    You are both helpful and patient.  I appreciate both.  I’m doing everything in NTSC, and as you implied I’m dealing with two separate issues. 

     

    The hesitations (stutters) disappeared when I changed the menu size from 1920x1152 (as recommended in the tutorial I watched) to 1920x1080, Premiere Pro’s aspect ratio.  If I might try your patience a bit longer, perhaps you can say a bit more about the end actions.  I have some 20 chapters, and I want the viewer to have the option of either playing the video all the way through (from PLAY VIDEO on the main menu) or playing the chapters independently (from Chapter Selections on the main menu).  In the latter case, I want to return the viewer to the Chapter Selection menu when the chapter is finished.  However, I do not want each chapter to play to the beginning of the following chapter, because there is often material between chapters (section introductions, etc.).  So, I’ve placed a chapter marker at the END of every chapter and, accordingly, placed an end action at each chapter (end) marker to return the viewer to the chapter selection menu.  Is this a mistake?

     

    As to the edit quality presets:  Separate issue.  I’ve played with a number of these presets, and played through my Playstation 3, I see absolutely no difference in audio or video quality.  But, the PS3 is a Blu-ray player, and I have no idea whether the presets would perform differently in a plain vanilla stand-alone DVD player.  Can you suggest the presets that would be likely to play most universally?  The video is intended for commercial distribution, so I naturally want a product that will play on the widest variety of players.

     

    Thank you again for your patience.

     

    Harry Frank

     
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    Apr 7, 2013 1:24 PM   in reply to John T Smith

    I’ve posted two separate questions, the menu size and the choice of quality presets, and I wasn’t certain to which you were responding. 

     

    The first menu I created was 1920x1152 (per recommendations on an Encore tutorial).  When I reconstructed it at 1920x1080, the annoying hesitations disappeared.  However, I’m testing it using a Playstation 3, which is also a Blu-ray reader, so I can’t be certain it will play well through a plain vanilla stand-alone DVD player.  For standard definition 16:9 widescreen, what menu size is recommended?

     

    Any advice on quality presets would, of course, also be welcomed.

     

    Harry Frank

     
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    Apr 7, 2013 7:24 PM   in reply to hfrankWI

    Create one timeline as you have. Yes, for your purposes, you need both a beginning and end marker for a chapter. Place NO end actions on any of these markers.

     

    The "play all" links to the timeline, and the end action of the timeline is "last menu" (if that is what you want - return to the menu it came from).

     

    For EACH chapter that you want a chapter selection, create a "chapter playlist," and put only ONE chapter in it. You will have 20 chapter playlists. Since chapter marker 6 (for example) is followed by chapter marker 7 (not to be included in the "chapter" selections, and only chapter 6 is in the chatpr playlist, it will stop at marker 7. Chapter marker 8 is your next chapter to include in a chapter playlist.

     

    The end action of each CHAPTER PLAYLIST (not the chapter) will be "last menu" (it will go back to the menu it was called from).

     
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    Apr 7, 2013 7:44 PM   in reply to hfrankWI

    For standard definition 16:9 widescreen, what menu size is recommended?

    For NTSC, 720 x480, par 1.21. Use a menu from the Encore library to play around. Try "Radiant Menu Wide." "Edit In Pphotoshop," and you will see a size of 720X480 and a par (View -> Pixel Aspect Ratio) of 1.21. (It is rounded to 2 places, but since CS4 it is 1.2121.)

     
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    Apr 7, 2013 7:55 PM   in reply to hfrankWI

    Any advice on quality presets would, of course, also be welcomed.

    My quick look in the other thread appears to be wrong. I think  Encore (almost) always starts with MPEG2 Bluray as the format when you open the "Edit Quality Presets" panel.

     

    Remember that you are not actually using "Edit Quality Presets" to set your particular transcode setting - you select it from the "Transcode Settings" panel. And you can set both DVD and Bluray for each asset. When you create a preset (in addition to all the original presets that you can't modify), it shows up in the list for the type of preset you created (DVD or Bluray). This is most frequently needed when you transcode inside Encore (including invoking AME) and need to modify the bitrates for your particular program length/quality. But when you are selecting a DVD preset, all you can ever have is MPEG2-DVD.

     
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    Apr 8, 2013 3:56 AM   in reply to Stan Jones

    That’s exactly what I have:  One playlist for the entire movie with chapter markers at the beginning and end, and one chapter playlist for each chapter.  At the end of each playlist the end action takes the viewer back to the menu.  That puts roughly 41 chapter markers in the timeline.

     

    HF

     
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    Apr 8, 2013 4:04 AM   in reply to Stan Jones

    This is the most useful piece of info in the entire thread—and it resolves the confusion surrounding my observation that editing the quality presets doesn’t make any observable difference on the screen.  If I understand you correctly, what it seems to boil down to is that once I pick DVD authoring mode in project settings, it overrides anything I do on the Edit Quality Presets.

     

    HF

     
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    Apr 8, 2013 4:14 AM   in reply to Stan Jones

    I created my menu background in Photoshop at 1920 x 1080 @72ppi.  It looks fine and works perfectly well on our widescreen 720p TV sets when played thru either a Playstation 3 or a Panasonic DVD player that’s about 10 years old.  Keep in mind that there are no graphics (that is, no photographic content that is likely to be distorted), just chapter names.   I’m very reluctant to reconstruct the menu yet again (very, very time-consuming and frustrating operation--see attachment for your amusement).  Can you give me a hint of what sort of problems I’m likely to encounter if I cross my fingers and put it into production with my current menu?

     

    HF

     
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    Apr 8, 2013 5:03 AM   in reply to hfrankWI

    That’s exactly what I have:

    And it is not now stuttering, right?

     

    One playlist for the entire movie with chapter markers at the beginning and end

    You don't need a "playlist" for the play all - just the timeline. When you say "chapter markers at the ... end," you are not adding a marker at the very end; just the last chater's marker, right? If you are adding one for the full timeline play, you don't need to. But I assume the final one you are referring to is the "end marker" for the final chapter you play in a chapter playlist. I just want to make the point that a video in a timeline needs only the (Encore required) chapter one marker at the beginning. You link from a button to the timeline, and the end action in on the timeline, not any marker.

     
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    Apr 8, 2013 5:09 AM   in reply to hfrankWI

    once I pick DVD authoring mode in project settings, it overrides anything I do on the Edit Quality Presets.

    It doesn't override as such. You pick from DVD or Bluray options in the "transcode settings," and it will let you pick either one no matter what your project is set to at that moment. And within those limits, you can pick any preset you want, including presets you have created through the "edit quality presets."

     

    The important point is that "edit quaity presets" does not set anything for your project or assets. It just edits the presets. The setting for (each) asset is the "transcode setting." Encore sets this to "automatic" by default; you keep it as "automatic" or you change it by selecting a preset in the transcode settings window - not by editing a preset.

     

    The "overriding" is that the only format that is allowed for the DVD transcode setting is MPEG2-DVD.

     
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    Apr 8, 2013 5:15 AM   in reply to hfrankWI

    I certainly won't argue with success, and I am not suggesting in any of these latest comments that you change anything for this project. It seems to be working! But you will be better prepared for the next project.

     

    Can you give me a hint of what sort of problems I’m likely to encounter if I cross my fingers and put it into production with my current menu?

    You are probably fine. Other than distortion (which you would be seeing already), look carefully at the highlights to be sure they are appearing correctly.

     

    Some users are disappointed when they create a 1080 menu and see the Encore rendered 480 resolution for DVD.

     
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    Apr 8, 2013 5:53 AM   in reply to Stan Jones

    Stuttering:  The stuttering stopped when I ditched the 1920 x 1152 menu and put in the 1920 x 1080 menu.

     

    Redundant comprehensive chapter playlist:  Another piece of useful info.  I did create a playlist that contains all the chapters (once again, an instruction from one of the Encore YouTube tutorials—which I find range from utterly incomprehensible babble to comprehensible but incorrect).  I suspected it was redundant because the error check consistently informs me that my timeline is an orphan—which made me suspect that the comprehensive chapter playlist might be redundant. 

     

    Chapter markers:  The chapter markers at the end(s) refer to the chapter marker in the time line that I place at the end of each chapter.  Chapter 1 (preface) beginning marker/ Chapter 1 (preface) end  marker/ 10-15 seconds of content introducing the material that follows the preface / Chapter 2 beginning  marker/  . . . . / Chapter 20 end marker / film credits / chapter marker at the end of the film.     I want Chapter 1 on the selection menu to play from the Chapter 1 beginning marker to the Chapter 1 end marker.  I most definitely do not want it to play to the Chapter 2 beginning marker, because that would include all the stuff between chapters. 

     

    HF

     
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    Apr 8, 2013 6:06 AM   in reply to Stan Jones

    We-l-l-l-l . . .  It’s working when played through a PS3, but the PS3 has a processor that makes it a genius compared to a standard Wal-Mart $19.95 Sungale DVD player.   Could probably play a concert recorded on a pancake.  

     

    HF

     
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    Apr 8, 2013 6:27 AM   in reply to Stan Jones

    The menu really hasn’t any highlights—just subdued desert colors for the background and Wrangler font.

     
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    Apr 8, 2013 6:28 AM   in reply to hfrankWI

    Could probably play a concert recorded on a pancake.

     
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    Apr 8, 2013 6:29 AM   in reply to Stan Jones

    I don’t get any transcode options.  TRANSCODE SETTINGS seems perpetually to be grayed out on the menu.  PROJECT SETTINGS and EDIT QUALITY PRESETS are the only options I have that let me fool around with settings.

     

    HF

     
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    Apr 8, 2013 8:32 AM   in reply to hfrankWI

    Make sure that you select the ASSET in the project panel. Or just right click on the asset.

     
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    Apr 8, 2013 10:55 AM   in reply to Stan Jones

    Uhhhhhh.  When do I do that and what is to be labeled an asset?  I generally begin with the video in Premiere Pro and then establish a dynamic link to Encore.  I import menus as . . . menus, and when I’ve gone through the interminable procedure described rather caustically in the attachment I sent, I build.

     

    HF

     
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    Apr 8, 2013 2:22 PM   in reply to hfrankWI

    Dynamic Link brings in the PR sequence as the asset. Then there is also a timeline. Unfortunately, they have precisely that same name, and  you must look at the "type" to know which is which. But once you know that secret code, it's easy! You will see that the timeline has no transcode setting; only the asset.

    EN CS6 Project Bin Transcode Settings DL.png

     
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    Apr 8, 2013 2:26 PM   in reply to Stan Jones

    Is one of them redundant?  Can I get rid of one?  And, do I understand correctly that I do not need a chapter playlist that includes everything, lock stock and nut, in order to play the entire PR from the PLAY VIDEO main button on the menu?

     
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    Apr 8, 2013 2:39 PM   in reply to hfrankWI

    No, both are needed. The "Sequence" (or asset) is what actually has your video. The "Timeline" is Encore's way of keeping track of the specifics of that video. You can put more than one video on a timeline (but don't). You do not actually link to the video, you link to the timeline.

     

    That's right, if you link to your one timeline, it should play through with no problem, and return to whatever end action you put on that timeline.

     
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