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What I don't like in upgraded Forum

Sep 20, 2011 6:08 AM

Tags: #user_stuff #embedding_answer_into_original_post #complaints

Dear Uncle Adobe,

I regret to inform you that some features in new Forum look upset minor amount of users.

 

Personally I have nothing against how a User's Stuff is displayed and am convinced that embedding 'Correct' answer into original post possesses promising future, but felt it my duty to report about a few complaints.

 

Although some of your team already interfered, trying to calm a crowd with a promise to turn 'embedding' feature off, the rest issue is not reconciled.

 

Hope we would be able to agree on some filters that would allow to sort User's Stuff according to

- threads started by a user (all ones, not just 'answered' or 'open' questions);

- time a user participated in (not just time of latest update by someone responded in a thread a user ever participated).

 

Yours faithfully,

Fuzzy Barsik

 
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Sep 20, 2011 7:49 AM   in reply to Fuzzy Barsik

    +1 to what Fuzz sez.

     

    the pop-up flyout that appears when the cursor is hovered over a user's

    profile name now displays a confusing mish-mash of not just recent activities,

    but threads recently updated by someone, in which a user ever participated.

     

    It seemed much more informative to be able to see the content that was

    originated by that user in chronological order as it was before the update.

    For example, moderators could tell at a glance if the poster has

    made identical posts regarding the same issue in multiple forums.


     
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    Sep 20, 2011 8:21 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    joe bloe premiere wrote:

     

    +1 to what Fuzz sez.

     

    the pop-up flyout that appears when the cursor is hovered over a user's

    profile name now displays a confusing mish-mash of not just recent activities,

    but threads recently updated by someone, in which a user ever participated.

     


    I hadn't noticed that until you brought it up. For me it shows threads I last posted in around 2006.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Sep 20, 2011 8:36 AM   in reply to ~graffiti

    The Forums should revert to restricting the username pop-up

    list of discussions to posts originated by that user.

     

    It is displaying that old thread from 2006 in your pop-up because

    you participated in that discussion at some point, and it has

    been updated with a new post (on 9/18/11)... regardless of when

    you made your last contribution.

     

    It used to be an informative tool for determining a questioner's

    experience level through viewing their previous posts.

    Now, it is essentially worthless.


     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Sep 20, 2011 9:09 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    The biggest problem with the Forum upgrade still remains.

     

    Embedding the reply that the original poster has designated as

    the 'correct answer' to the original post can be detrimental for a user

    who may not read the subsequent responses that provide more

    complete (and often better) information regarding the question.

     

    A skimmer may only read the original post with the 'correct' response

    as designated by the OP, and reasonably assume it is an officially

    Adobe endorsed solution, and not gain the benefit of the nuance

    and corrections that will usually follow.

    Also, it is often the case that the OP does not recognize a response

    as incomplete or entirely incorrect, and designates the post as 'correct'

    anyway.

     

    -Ann Bens

    "I agree, this feature should go all together.

    Half the time its not correct or the correct answer is at

    the bottom of the thread or loaded with irrelevant info."

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/3924910#3924910

     

    -Todd Kopriva

    "I don't much like this feature of embedding the 'correct'

    answer out of context, either.  I'll ask about turning it off."

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/3924883#3924883

     
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    Sep 20, 2011 11:02 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    There doesn't appear to be a way to modify this. I've submitted a feature request to Jive at https://community.jivesoftware.com/ideas/2445

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Sep 20, 2011 12:23 PM   in reply to adobe-admin

    Thanks for the reply.

     

    Does that pertain to what is displayed

    in the username pop-up as well?


     
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    Sep 20, 2011 12:58 PM   in reply to Fuzzy Barsik

    John, thank you for trying to save us from the ghastly Embedded Correct Answer ghost, which may haunt us for a long time, even with a successful feature request.

     

    Having said so much about the subject in advance, I decided to let others bring it up, or not. I am pleased to see that many seem to agree, and that there is hope.

     
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    Sep 20, 2011 2:52 PM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    joe bloe, I hadn't met this new feature, and was completely appalled when I saw it. I think that this thread clearly shows why:

     

    http://forums.adobe.com/thread/903882?tstart=30

     

    The original poster found that the suggestion in the first response worked, and so he marked it as Correct. As a result, it is now not only marked as Correct, but also prominently reproduced inside the opening post as the correct answer. However, that solution was not entirely correc and was later corrected. Also, some other ways of achieving the desired effect were also posted.

     

    Pity that:

     

    1. the original poster never came back to see all this, because he thought he already had his answer; and
    2. more likely than not, any newcomer with the the same question, on seeing this very prominent Correct Answer inside the opening message, will think that's the one and only correct answer and will read no further.

     

    And I must say that I was pleasantly surprised by the number and quality of further contributions which will unfortunately be wasted on newcomers.

     

    JC, you say that there appears to be no way to modify this. Was this a feature specifically asked by Adobe? If it wasn't, I would think that Adobe has the right to ask for this undesirable feature to be removed. (Not to mention the ghastly rating stars in the opening message of threads: why should just any anybody/nobody be granted the privilege of rating an opening message on unknown and unspecified criteria?).

     
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    Sep 20, 2011 2:56 PM   in reply to Claudio González

    The prominent display of a marked "Correct" answer does have the potential for great confusion. The older "Correct Answer" icon was fine, and I would vote for it being implemented - if possible at this date.

     

    Hunt

     
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    Sep 20, 2011 2:58 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Moderators can fix improperly marked correct answers.

     

    If you think something should be marked differently, you can suggest that to the moderator on your forum.

     

    Harbs

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Sep 20, 2011 3:01 PM   in reply to Harbs.

    If you think something should be marked differently, you can suggest that to the moderator on your forum.

     

    Harbs

    With all due respect, I don't think this a realistic solution.

     
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    Sep 20, 2011 3:06 PM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    Yes. Most MOD's, that I know, have enough trouble riding herd on Joe and me...

     

    Also, having to edit such things would take quite a bit of time, and require some real deliberation on the parts of the MOD's. I'd like to keep their roles to helping most of the time, rather than housekeeping.

     

    If nothing can be done to change things, then it's something that I could live with.

     

    Just waiting to see a "You're too stupid to use this program, and should go to something basic," marked as the Correct Answer. That has happened several times in the past, even when others had furnished the correct, technical answers, so it's but a matter of time. At least we can all have a good laugh.

     

    Hunt

     
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    Sep 20, 2011 3:06 PM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    Realistic or not, that's your only option using the new version (unless it's possible to change -- which I doubt).

     

    In my experience, the OP usually does a decent job of marking correct answers (if they bother at all).

     

    Harbs

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Sep 20, 2011 3:32 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    If nothing can be done to change things, then it's something that I could live with.

    I'll be ok, too.  My eyes have already become conditioned to ignore it.

    I do agree that the older "Correct Answer" icon was fine, and was

    more effective to absorb and consider within the context of the thread.

     

    It apparently is what it is.


     
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    Sep 20, 2011 3:36 PM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    It apparently is what it is.

     

    I'll just declare "Wine-thirty" early on days that it bothers me...

     

    Hunt

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Sep 20, 2011 3:45 PM   in reply to Fuzzy Barsik

    I gave it a run though, eh?

     
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    Sep 20, 2011 3:48 PM   in reply to Harbs.

    Harbs. wrote:

     

    Realistic or not, that's your only option using the new version (unless it's possible to change -- which I doubt).

     

    In my experience, the OP usually does a decent job of marking correct answers (if they bother at all).

     

    Harbs

    I find it a shame that the Adobe team has their hands tied to modify unwanted features.

     

    The OP does many times in the case of seasoned participants. People asking "Why does my Abode not work?" are not qualified to judge and frequently err.

     

    It was bad enough when we just had the Correct Answer icon. Prominently displaying the correct answer inside the opening message will be devastating. And I am not thinking of people like the persons participating in this discussion; we can learn to ignore the message and will suffer no damage. It's all the newcomers who will naively think that no further reading is necessary that worry me. And should worry Adobe and all of us.

     
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    Sep 20, 2011 4:03 PM   in reply to Claudio González

    Devastating? That sounds a bit strong to me.

     

    I think that this is a relatively small issue in the big picture of things, but that's just me...

     
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    Sep 20, 2011 5:08 PM   in reply to Fuzzy Barsik

    Is there ever a truly correct answer for most questions here? Does anybody really know what time its is? Does anybody really care?

     

    As I was walking down the street one day . . .

     

    Sorry.

     

    What I want is those little red flags back!

     
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    Sep 20, 2011 6:11 PM   in reply to Harbs.

    Harbs. wrote:

     

    Devastating? That sounds a bit strong to me.

     

    I think that this is a relatively small issue in the big picture of things, but that's just me...

     

    If just a single newcomer is lead astray by a "correct answer" message embeded in the original post, for me that's "devastating" for that user. You can say that this sounds a bit strong, or minimize the issue as much as you like, but the crude fact is that newcomers are different from seasoned participants. And they should be Adobe's main concern. And ours. Long time survival of the forums depends on them.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Sep 20, 2011 6:31 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Just waiting to see a "You're too stupid to use this program, and should go to something basic," marked as the Correct Answer. That has happened several times in the past...

     

    Since the update, all of those illegitimate replies from the past that

    were designated as correct are now embedded in the original post.

    Someone with lots of time (and wine) on their hands should go

    and find, collect and post those threads in the lounge just for

    their entertainment value.

     

    Or maybe the MODs are going through them now.


     
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    Sep 20, 2011 7:03 PM   in reply to Semaphoric

    I will gladly support you on the "little red flags," and their loss has been a sore point with me for some time now. Many around these parts are tired of me waving them, and some do not even know what I am talking about.

     

    As to THE "Correct Answer," let's look at some typical questions in the PS Forum. "How do I create _____?" Well, and as with many Adobe programs, there might be a half-dozen ways to do that, and the choice will hinge on what one is starting with, what they need to end up with, and how they like to work.

     

    For me, I care less whether they choose one of those as THE Correct Answer, but more that they find AN answer, that works for them. Now, that does not address the next person, with the same issue, who comes upon the thread (now that the Search seems to be fixed), some time later. Hopefully, they will read the whole thread, and not stop at the display of THE Correct Answer.

     

    Not sure that every base can be covered.

     

    Hunt

     
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    Sep 20, 2011 7:08 PM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    If I EVER find THAT much time, then I will do my best. Lot of funny reading in some of those. Both the Premiere and Photoshop forums could provide some interesting fodder. The wine, I have, it's all about the time.

     

    OP's comment on the real, Correct Answer, "That sounds OK, but I want a second opinion."

    Response: "Well, you are ugly, and your mother dresses you funny... " [Marked as a Helpful Answer.]

     

    Hunt

     
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    Sep 20, 2011 7:30 PM   in reply to Fuzzy Barsik

    I see there's an "unmark as helpful" button. Maybe there could be an "unmark as correct" button.

     
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    Sep 20, 2011 7:46 PM   in reply to Semaphoric

    Guess that I need to do more original posts, that are questions, to see some of the changes there. Even in beta, that was not something that I tried. Maybe some useful stuff there?

     

    Thanks,

     

    Hunt

     
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    Sep 21, 2011 8:47 AM   in reply to Fuzzy Barsik

    I agree with Claudio about the seriousness of the OP embedded (supposedly) Correct Answer issue.

     

    When the fair forums were replaced two years and a half ago, I decided to entirely ignore everything about points/correct/helpful answers, apart from observing their effects and reporting back to this forum, and keep posting just (as sillilly) as I always had; and I said so then.

     

    Consequently, I have kept reading threads that I might contribute to and posting answers that I hoped could help the OPs, even time consuming ones with long detailed instructions and images/screenshots, regardless of answer status.

     

    In my experience, the Correct Answer has cut many threads short of what they should/could have been, even before it became embedded in the OP.

     

    Now it is far worse.

     

    Even I, despite my firm determination, now find that the OP embedded (supposedly) Correct Answer makes it hard to persevere: I now sometimes find myself thinking twice before even entering a (supposedly) answered thread, and thrice about contributing.

     

    The obvious effects of the three main points I have raised earlier about it have been very well stated in this thread.

     

    1) It actually/effectively says: Stop. Go no further. All has been said.

    2) It breaks the rhythm for anyone actually reading the thread.

    3) It separates the answer in question from its context which may be crucial.

     
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    Sep 21, 2011 9:08 AM   in reply to Jacob Bugge

    Why not instead of "answered". Just have "helpful" only. That way  additional suggestion could go on.

     
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    Sep 21, 2011 9:21 AM   in reply to Phillip Jones

    It even gets worse.

    One can award a helpfull answer to ones own post.

    http://forums.adobe.com/thread/901868?tstart=0

     
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    Sep 21, 2011 9:46 AM   in reply to Phillip Jones

    You mean, embedding helpful answers within the opening post? I am afraid that I don't like the idea any better...

     
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    Sep 21, 2011 10:07 AM   in reply to Ann Bens

    But it shouldn't matter, according to some. We seasoned participants can quickly learn to ignore all this rubbish. Although, as Jacob says, it's not so easy with "solutions" embedded in the opening message.

     
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    Sep 21, 2011 11:03 AM   in reply to Ann Bens

    Ann,

     

    I just saw the same thing in one of the PrElements threads. That was news to me!

     

    Hunt

     
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    Sep 21, 2011 11:07 AM   in reply to Claudio González

    Yes. My biggest concern would be that others coming to the thread later (now that Search seems to have been fixed), and seeing ONLY the one embedded answer, and ignoring great material further down the thread. However, similar issues have existed from the old layout, where many later readers would skip over early replies, and focus only on later ones. All too often, the skipped replies had the solution.

     

    Hence the frequent, humorous reply, "Nobody ever reads Post ____ !"

     

    Guess that there is no iron-clad perfection.

     

    Hunt

     
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    Sep 21, 2011 1:41 PM   in reply to Fuzzy Barsik

    Have we always been able to delete a response or is that new?

     

    I wouldn't be surprised if it's always been there and I just haven't noticed it.

     
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    Sep 21, 2011 3:03 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Bill Hunt wrote:

     

    Yes. My biggest concern would be that others coming to the thread later (now that Search seems to have been fixed), and seeing ONLY the one embedded answer, and ignoring great material further down the thread. However, similar issues have existed from the old layout, where many later readers would skip over early replies, and focus only on later ones. All too often, the skipped replies had the solution.

     

    Hence the frequent, humorous reply, "Nobody ever reads Post ____ !"

     

    Guess that there is no iron-clad perfection.

     

    Hunt

     

    Bill, I know this has been getting worse since the great change of some years ago, but this last straw is not a straw, it's the full trunk of a gigantic tree. And it worries me to see some participants minimizing this problem and even ridiculizing it on the grounds that "we'll soon get used to it". Maybe we will, but newcomers will only see that prominently displayed message embedded in the opening one and implying that it is the correct answer to their problem, when we all know that for non trivial questions there is rarely a single correct answer.

     

    I very much fear that this new feature will encourage newcomers to never learn to take full advantage of the forums.

     
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    Sep 21, 2011 3:03 PM   in reply to ~graffiti

    Deleting an answer is new, grafitti; deleting an OP was possible while still unanswered. I have created a first post in vain quite a few times over the years, only to find that there was no longer a thread.

     
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    Sep 21, 2011 3:09 PM   in reply to ~graffiti

    ~graffiti wrote:

     

    Have we always been able to delete a response or is that new?

     

    I wouldn't be surprised if it's always been there and I just haven't noticed it

     

    I am sure that it is new, but unless every deleted message is replaced by a note stating who deleted it, when, and why, it can be more dangerous than beneficial.

     
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    Sep 21, 2011 3:32 PM   in reply to Claudio González

    I was thinking the same thing to some degree. I've seen it misused in the old forums. There wasn't officially a delete button but for those in the know, you could delete posts.

     

    But I never saw it misused in the forums I frequent now. Just in one particular one a long time ago in a galaxy far away.

     
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