Robohelp does not pick up conditional build tags set for tables

[ZeBarron]

My FrameMaker 9 tables tagged with conditional text is not picked up by RoboHelp 8.

My tests show that conditional text set for tables in FrameMaker when imported to RoboHelp gives me a table with no conditional build tags at all. If I, in addition, set conditional text for the content in the table I only end up with an empty table. IOW, I have to "man-handle" all tables in RoboHelp ... sucks big time!

My RoboHelp settings are fine as I can see all build tags from FrameMaker in RoboHelp (they are just not automatically applied to the tables). Applying conditional build tags before I import FrameMaker files is never a good idea as it simply does not work properly. In my experience you always have to set the same build conditions in RoboHelp as you do in FrameMaker ... IOW, repeat!

Anyone got the same problems, or am I doing something wrong here?

[Mark_Southee]

I had similar problems with Cross References and Conditional text. Got it to work eventually. The way it has been designed to work is to set your Show/Hide Conditional Text settings in FrameMaker to show what you want to see in the help, then update the linked files in RoboHelp, without any Conditional Build tags applied.

[ZeBarron]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for taking the time to answer. Here's a little bit more information.

I have three books that relies on many of the same files. What I usually do is to setup each book, one at a time, and import them into RH. Before I import anything I have a FM template file in my project settings that contiains all styles, variables and conditional text options. I also, during import, make sure that RH does not apply any FM conditional text as I want to make use of the conditional build tags.

Ideally I should not have any use of the build tags whatsoever as I should be able to trust RH to just import visible content from my FM files; however, that is not the case when dealing with tables. If I do not import all conditional build tags I cannot apply them to the tables in retrospect because RH will simply not import them if they are applied before the import.

I do manage to hide the content, but conditional text set for the table is never applied for the table tag, just for the table elements (i.e. TR, TH, TD) leaving an empty table with no rows, header or data cells. IOW, if I have, in FM, set conditional text for an entire table, FM will not output that table, but RH will because it does not understand that it should hide the table too.

So, I have to import all conditional build tags, and manually apply the HTML code that is needed in order to hide the table itself (i.e. <TABLE>). Go figure ...

@Jeff: If I could only trust RH to actually understand what FM tries to do I would be fine, but as you can see from the above description of my problem it does not.

Regards,

Jon

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

Okay, I think I see what your problem is - if you want FM to do the conditioning, you have to set the correct Show/Hide settings in FM to hide the tables you want hidden. Then select the flag in the integration settings to "use FM conditioning" - that will pull only the visible content of your FM file into the RH project. Then you just generate; there's no setting of CBTs in RH.

[ZeBarron]

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for taking the time to answer me; however, what you are writing does not reflect back on my output. Below you have three images. The first depicts the manual with no conditions set in FM. The second image depicts conditions set in FM prior to my import in RH. The third image depicts the output in RH with conditions applied prior to import (with Apply FrameMaker Conditional Text Build Expression enabled).

Figure 1: FrameMaker with no conditions set

Figure 2: FrameMaker with all conditions set, ready for RoboHelp import

Figure 3: RoboHelp output when Apply FrameMaker Conditional Text Build Expression is enabled

As you can see, the RH output is the same output as when FM has no conditions set. IOW, tables, headers, rows and data are not affected by conditonal build tags applied prior to import ... so far

Thanks,

Jon

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

I think you're missing the "hide" part of the equation - you set the condition in FM, you show or hide whatever conditions are supposed to be seen in RH while still in FM, then you import it with the "use FM conditions" flag set. So your first image would be FM showing all conditions, the second would be hiding whatever needs to be hidden, and the third what results in RH.

[ZeBarron]

Hi Jeff,

What you are writing is actually what I was trying to examplify However, it might not have come across like I intended (sorry for that). The first figure only shows the status of the FM document before I apply the conditions in FM  (figure 2). Figure 2 is the result in FM I should get after the import in RH; however, with the conditions set in FM and Apply FrameMaker Conditional Text Build Expression enabled in RH's project settings I still get the results as depicted in figure 1.

If you don't mind I would find it very useful if you could show me a successful example of such an output. Just some simple snapshots to show the settings and how the FM and RH files look like at each stage. Note that I am thinking about hiding a complete table, not single/multiple rows or data within a cell which works fine.

Thanks,

Jon

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

Sorry, I don't have any examples to show you because I bring all text in from FM and then use RH's CBT expressions in the SSL recipe before generating.

Looking more closely at your screen shots, it appears you have multiple conditions applied to the caption text and table (at least that's what I'm getting from the different colouring applied) - is it working with just plain body text with multiple conditions? If so, then it could be a bug when it comes to tables; if it doesn't, it could be a bug when dealing with multiple conditions in general.

[ZeBarron]

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for taking a closer look. As stated in one of my previous replies we use the doc set in three books; hence, we use multiple conditions to sort the different books.

My experience with this issue tells me one thing. RH does not understand conditions set for tables whatsoever. Multiple conditions set for other elements work just fine. Content in the table also works, but not if you just set conditions for the table itself or its elements (rows and cells). If you set conditions for text within a cell that works fine as RH treats it as any other paragraph element in the FM file.

If you are unable to verify this issue I will treat it as a bug (already reported)  RH's FM integration, without knowing much about the latest version 9, still has a way to go before I would consider all main features somewhat bug free. Of course we can choose to upgrade; however, if I'm right and this is a bug and not a "new feature" in later versions. IOW, an update to version 9 should (if this is fixed) be merged back to version 8 ...

Thanks for your efforts,

Jon

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

What about going the other way and showing all text in FM, importing it all into RH (not selecting the "use FM conditions" flag), then using CBT in the SSLs?

[ZeBarron]

Hi Jeff,

That was the solution I used; however, RH still does not apply the conditions correctly. Looking at the HTML code all table elements (not the <TABLE> tag) have the conditions set correctly provided they are applied (in FM) to the actual text (i.e. not the cells or rows). However, this does not resolve the issue of excluding complete tables ...

I ended up creating a procedure for the team to use during import.

To manually exclude tables using conditional build tags

1. Create your RH project without applying conditional build tags when importing the FM book
2. Open the file(s) you want to apply conditional build tags to
3. Select the table you want to exclude and click the editor’s HTML button
4. Locate the conditional build start tag to use and place it above the <table> tag
   • A typical build tag looks like this <?rh-cbt_start condition=”my-condition” ?>
5. Locate the conditional build end tag to use and place it below the </table> tag
   • A build end tag looks like this <?rh-cbt_end ?>
6. Save the file and regenerate the project

Regards,

Jon

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

I thought you said you were using the "Apply FrameMaker Conditional Text Build Expression" flag in the integration settings? The second method in Linda's post (http://forums.adobe.com/thread/923236)

[ZeBarron]

In order to get things done I ended up importing everything. Besides, regardless of the method RH does not apply the conditions correctly. IOW, it does not matter. The only way to actually get it done is to import everything because not importing things, allowing FM and RH to deal with this upfront, only results in tables being empty as I have to apply conditions to the text inside the cells in order for conditions to work for in the first place ...

I know what you're thinking ... it's a mess ... a serious mess I think Adobe should solve. FM allows you to set conditions for text, tables and of course tables and text. No matter what the combination is (or lack of combination ) it does not work.

Manually going into the code, applying the cbt tags is (so far) the only thing that worked for me. IOW, a "useless" and cumbersome workaround.

Jon

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

I hope you've reported it as a bug here: https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

I think the only other workaround (other than manually applying the tags in the RH topics) would be to separate out the text in FM into blocks with only one condition applied and then use the SSL recipe to determine what makes it to the help output.

[ZeBarron]

I did report it this morning with a reference to this forum case. We'll see. BTW, do you know if I can track my bug reports? After sending it it kind of felt like sending something into a black hole ... It would be interesting to see if they actually do anything with this case.

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

Nope, it's a black hole all right - occasionally you get some Adobe tech e-mailing you about an error you managed to generate looking for more info, but that's about it.

[ZeBarron]

Not everyone is as open as they should be regarding these things. Feedback from seasoned customers using your product is the best QA department anyone could ask for. Why this is not used more widely by companies in Adobe's position beats me ... Maybe they're just afraid of people's expectations. Anyways, better to have expectations than customers left behind in despair ...

[ZeBarron · Accepted solution]

Adobe confirms it's a bug!

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

There's 2 ways of dealing with conditional text in the FM to RH process - either you set the conditions in FM and adjust your Show/Hide settings to display what you want brought into RH with the FM Integration setting set to "use FM settings" OR you set FM's Show/Hide to show all and then rely on RH's build settings in each SSL recipe to display the appropriate text in your help output. It's an either/or thing - you either use FM to do the conditioning or RH.