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Color Spaces CIE and Adobe RGB

Dec 29, 2011 3:37 PM

Tags: #profile #color #adobe #cie

Looking at monitor specs, usually, the color space of the monitor is given in terms of a target color space, like 96% Adobe RGB. Some give several, but along comes Dell, u2412, and they supply one: 82% CIE.

 

I know what CIE is, but making a guesstimate from the Dell spec requires more than what I presently know about such matters.

 

So, what are the expectations? Is that a meaningful spec for comparison sake? IOW, how much does Adobe RGB enclose CIE 1976?

 

TIA

 

Lawrence

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 29, 2011 6:31 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    CIE is a standards body.  There isn't really a CIE colorspace (well, there are many that have different names and don't apply to monitors).

     

    So I'm not sure what they're referring to.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 30, 2011 5:59 AM   in reply to Hudechrome

    I guess what they are trying to express might be that their monitor can reproduce 82% of all humanly perceptible color impressions.

    But such a percentage number would not define a color space as it does not clarify which regions of CIELAB can and which cannot be reproduced by the monitor (not to mention that (edit:) monitor-ageing would probably also be a factor).

     

    As for how »large« AdobeRGB is one can (on Mac) use ColorSync Utility to compare color spaces’ geometrical representations.

    adobeRGBinLab.jpg

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 30, 2011 8:34 AM   in reply to Hudechrome

    The "CIE diagram" is misleading (someone copied a graphic without knowing what it meant) -- CIE has many possible colorspaces.

    It could be based on CIE XYZ, xyY, LUV, LAB, etc.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 30, 2011 3:52 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    There were a handful of standards from CIE in 1976.

    Sigh, I just love advertising copy written by people with no idea....

    And CIELUV is open ended, just like CIELAB.

     

    If you could send me a link to the display in question, we can follow up with Dell about their not-quite-right advertising.

    (the CIE and ICC lists should get a laugh out of it)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 31, 2011 1:19 AM   in reply to Hudechrome

    From TFT Central:

     

    The U2412M uses White-LED (W-LED) backlighting. The colour space of this screen is approximately equal to the sRGB reference and is considered a 'standard gamut' backlight type. Studying the detailed panel spec confirms the screen covers 71% of the NTSC reference, 74.3% of the Adobe RGB reference and 95.8% of the sRGB space. As a side note you will see reference on Dell's website of an 82% colour gamut. This refers to the NTSC coverage but is based on a different reference point (CIE1976 = 82%). More common is the CIE1931 standard which would equate to 72% NTSC which is more relevant when comparing with other screens quoting NTSC gamut specs. While a 95.8% coverage of the sRGB space is decent enough and in line with most W-LED backlit screens, some higher end uses may require a wider gamut with a full 100% sRGB coverage (and beyond) for graphics and colour work. A wide gamut screen is another option for those wanting to work outside of the sRGB colour space.

     

    http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2412m.htm

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 31, 2011 9:00 AM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Wide gamut is very nice if you have it, especially for someone like me who work mostly for offset print and usually stay in Adobe RGB throughout.

     

    But I'd still put it pretty far down on the priorities list. I managed very well without it. So if you have your hands on a 2412 and it's otherwise good, I'd say go for it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 5, 2012 9:56 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    That's a good deal. Here in Norway it's $550 (and the U2410 by comparison $830).

     

    Enjoy!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 6, 2012 12:56 AM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Hudechrome wrote:


    it's not a Lacie or certainly not Eizo

    One thing that was sort of missing in all the monitor discussions we had on the Windows forum is this: It is perfectly possible to do fine work on a less-than-perfect monitor, as long as you can identify the shortcomings and find ways to work around them. Although I'm happy with my particular Eizo, that's not to say it doesn't have its own shortcomings, so it's not an Eizo either .

     
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    Jan 6, 2012 9:53 AM   in reply to twenty_one

    Along the same line of thought, it is possible to get adequate display performance when "full" color range is achieved with 6bits + FRC  (frame rate control). It depends on how well the FRC is done. I have no experience with the 2412, which does use 6it + FRC, but just because it is not 8-bit does not mean it is inadequate for good work. I believe the 2410 has 8-bit drivers and it might be interesting to see if users can tell the difference.

     

    Paulo

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 6, 2012 10:33 AM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Hudechrome wrote:

     

    what are the cons to your Eizo (and which one?)

    Well, the S2243 is a PVA monitor, and PVA panels will always have some trouble in the deep shadows. But I knew that before I bought it, so it was no surprise. I've learned to interpret - and trust - the histogram to get my black levels right. It's not a problem.

     

    The EV2335 that I use at home is IPS and probably comparable to your U2412. Since the price is less than half that of the S2243, I'm sure it has to be inferior in a whole number of ways, but I'll be damned if I can see how...except that it's standard gamut of course.

     

    But pricing is a mystery to me. In general monitors become cheaper and cheaper, and generally Eizo has dropped dramatically in the last year or so. But some models go up and down without any apparent pattern, even directly from Eizo Norway. And one webshop sold the same model in black and gray for an extended period - at 30% price difference! And the funny thing is that the more expensive one went out first...food for thought...

     

    Edit: there is one other thing: the EV2335 cannot be hardware calibrated to monitor LUT, it has to go via the video card. Not even the Eizo easy-pix (still hate that name) calibrator will do it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 6, 2012 10:46 AM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Leave it in ProPhoto. You never know what the future brings

     
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    Jan 6, 2012 4:33 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Hudechrome wrote:

     

    The other fussbudget item is X-Rite. I doesn't like calibrating LCD. It manages to skip over steps along the way, and if I hadn't the experience and expectations step to step with my crt, I would probably be returning the Dell at this time. The differences from the data pov between my Custom and Average should be barely visible, but in fact, it is visually significant. Normal conclusions would hold the monitor at fault.

     

    Off to contact X-Rite

    Could it be that the problem is not LCD, but LED?

     

    I've known for some time that older colorimeters had trouble with wide gamut, but lately I've heard that many of them also have difficulties with LED backlight, even in standard gamut. I don't recall what sensor you're using, but AFAIK the Spyder3 was the first that was specifically made for wide gamut (and presumably LED).

     

    A black to white gradient should give you some clues. If it looks good, with no sudden transitions or color shifts, you can probably trust the profile.

     
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