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Why did Adobe decide to force MAC + PC Users together when they are so much alike? (NOT)

Jan 8, 2012 7:20 PM

I don't see the average mac user as being the same type of computer user, OR photoshop user as the average PC user.

 

YES, there is overlap, majority in both are some species of human, ..etc..

 

But out of 3-4 questions I asked in the general forum, I got Mac specific answers, WHICH, BTW, is very annoying, as that means the majority of those answering me assumed I was on a MAC.

 

That is bad.

 

It may be there are more Photoshop users on the Mac, i can *imagine* (dunnow if true or not), BUT, I can also see that of those users who are on the PC, the "median" person will be a different type of Photoshop user and a different type of computer user.

 

On one hand, ALLOWING the two to post to one group -- having a mac, and win and 'both' group is a GREAT idea,, but on the other hand, FORCING people, to give up CHOICE, and taking away their FREEDOM to post in an area specific to their needs, is a HORRIBLE idea.

 

So tell me, Adobe, would care to give any statistics to back up why you did this?

 

I.e. I'd love to see a breakdown for the Mac and PC users:


 

  1.   Average length of time using Photoshop
  2. %users using each version (for %>10);
  3. 32/64 bit version?
  4.   HW specs -- memory? Video Mem? Graphics power for 'EX' features?
  5. fields and/or domains of usage (word, advert, engineering, web, personal enrichment, medical...etc...) as many as apply or write-in
  6. background domains (areas of expertise, interest -- not just where they worked..)
  7. Use Photoshop only at work, only at home, both fairly equally, what's work? what's home? .. or other variants...

 

I could add some other more 'standard' differences (age/income/ethnic), but I don't think any of those would help me know the person and how similar their usage of Photoshop is...or their computer knowledge as relates to Photoshop)...

 

For someone who is fairly open-minded and liberal, I sure get touchy about changes that don't seem to make sense to me....guess we all have our areas...some that seem contradictory... like they only thing I can not tolerate! in anyway! is _intolerance_!.... ;-)

 

Brain hurts now --  why did I come here? .. it was to ask something...  then I got redirected into writing this...(distracted - typical!)

 

Sigh...

 

Astara

 

 

 

 
Replies 1 2 Previous Next
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 8, 2012 8:36 PM   in reply to Astara_

    Astara_ wrote:

     

    Brain hurts now --  why did I come here? .. it was to ask something...  then I got redirected into writing this...(distracted - typical!)

     

    Actually, now my eyes hurts. What the heck did you choose a fancy serif font for a post in a web forum. Gotta tell ya, I tried reading the post and gave up because I can't see urple color on blue.

     

    Point in fact, other than OS specific troubleshooting issues (which is made easier when posters post their basic info including CPU, OS, PS version) aside from a few slight differences in command keys, PS for Mac and PC is close enough to be handled in a single forum if the forum users take a modicum of effort when posting...like using a black font color that isn't a fancy serif font impossible to read. Fact is, your post is a wast...wanna retype it in a readable form? I'll take a look at your arguments, otherwise, you just wasted your time posting...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 8, 2012 8:44 PM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    Ha Ha! I'll second that Jeff, had to go off and take a couple of Tylenol after squinting my way through the first line!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 8, 2012 10:32 PM   in reply to Astara_

    Astara_ wrote:

     

    …the majority of those answering me assumed I was on a MAC… [sic]

     

     

    It's Mac for Macintosh, not "MAC" which is an acronym that can stand for any one of several things, none of which has anything to do with Macintosh.

     

    I agree with both of the previous posters on the unreadability of the OP, but I'm not surprised to see even a PC user bothered by this latest effort to merge the forums.  There's nothing novel or efficient about the idea; it had been tried once already and the results were bad enough that the Adobe Photoshop forums were split again along platform lines.

     

     

    ____________

    Wo Tai Lao Le

    我太老了     

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,514 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Jan 8, 2012 10:49 PM   in reply to Tai Lao

    Adobe probably figures there will be a LOT more Mac users when Windows 8 "hits the fan". 

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 8, 2012 11:50 PM   in reply to Astara_

    "We are the Borg. Resistance is futile. You have just relinquished your right to become part of The Collective by using Comic Sans."

     

    Other than that you're just making a fuss over nothing. It will all make much more sense soon-ish. You'll see...

     

    Mylenium

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 9, 2012 12:11 AM   in reply to Astara_

    But out of 3-4 questions I asked in the general forum, I got Mac specific answers, WHICH, BTW, is very annoying, as that means the majority of those answering me assumed I was on a MAC.

    Unless you made it clear in your original posts that you work on Windows you are at fault, in my opinion, and not the people answering.

     
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  • Trevor Dennis
    5,925 posts
    May 24, 2010
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    Jan 9, 2012 1:29 AM   in reply to Astara_

    I was just wondering how many - if any - Photoshop books are written exclusively for one or the other platform.    Photoshop is a complex application.  I'd have thought the average PS user would be able to cope with the Option/Alt Command/Ctrl  thing.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 9, 2012 2:03 AM   in reply to Astara_

    Sorry, I don't go around broadcasting every feature of my system.

    The platform you are using would be one feature, the version another – who said anything about every feature?

    And if the issues you are having are platform dependent then not declaring your platform is simply …

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 9, 2012 2:51 AM   in reply to Astara_

    Astara_ wrote:

     

    Usually it's the people making ***umptions that are ***uming things...  jumping to conclusions is something usually done by the person doing the jumping -- i.e. it's hard for someone to force you to jump to conclusions ...

     

    So, the fact that your post is in purple and a hard to read font is somehow my fault?

     

    Ok, then I'm at fault that your post is hard to read (and really makes no sense)...

     

    Ok, so...my fault...ignore my post indicating you are somewhat less than way less than useful. On the other hand, you might want to suss out why pretty much everybody else thinks your post is, well, suboptimal.

     

    Congrats, you seem to have contributed, well about nothing...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 9, 2012 2:55 AM   in reply to Astara_

    Astara, you should know that Comic Sans is probably the most hated font on the planet. Probably good for birthday invitations, but not much else. And it's hard to read.

     

    Being a Windows guy myself, I really think you should give this platform stuff a rest. Most people can keep cmd and opt from ctrl and alt. That's often all there is to it - and when it isn't it's no big deal to state which platform you're on. As many others here have pointed out.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 9, 2012 2:58 AM   in reply to Trevor Dennis

    Trevor,

     

    I agree with the thrust of your message.  However…

     

    Trevor.Dennis wrote:

     

    I was just wondering how many - if any - Photoshop books are written exclusively for one or the other platform…

     

    The forums are fundamentally different from a book in that a very high volume of the questions asked by users in the forums encountering problems while working in Photoshop ultimately are solved by addressing platform-specific OS issues.  That is not dealt with by "Photoshop books."  That's just reality.  Questions about technique have been dwindling in the forums over the years.

     

     

    Trevor.Dennis wrote:

     

    …I'd have thought the average PS user would be able to cope with the Option/Alt Command/Ctrl  thing.

     

    It goes far beyond that.  Menu items are sometimes found under different menus in Windows, things like "About Plug-In" drop-down menu, for instance, which is in the Photoshop menu on the Mac, not the Help menu.  Is there even a "Photoshop Menu" in the Windows version?  I don't remember and I'm too lazy to get up and fire up the Windows laptop just to check.  The "Preferences" menu item is on that same Photoshop menu, not under Edit.

     

    Ps_menu.jpg

     

    Then there's the terminology:  We don't "load" an application, we install it or launch it.  We don't "exit" the program either, we quit it.  Our printers don't have "properties", there are settings in the printer dialog boxes, etc.  There's no such thing as the registry on the Mac and no equivalent that I can think of.  Directories are folders, always have been. The list goes on and on…

     

    Then there are platform-specific colloquialisms too.  We routinely type windoze or Windoze to differentiate your OS from document windows.  Remember, the Mac had windows before Windoze even existed.  Of course, 'dozers take exception to Windoze and 'dozer, by which I don't mean to insult, yet Windows users are somehow offended by the terms.  Just during the course of typing posts, I have to backtrack and edit Windoze into Windows before this particular paragraph in this thread.

     

    Above all, remember this is not a case of predicting conflicts, but a case of remembering past disasters.  The forums had already been merged once before, and it was an unmitigated disaster.  That's why Adobe had to do an about face and split the forums along platform lines again.

     

    You have no idea how utterly sick and tired we are of reading recent Mac converts pop up out of the woodwork to ask "why can I see my desktop whew I'm running Photoshop?"  'Dozers typing MAC for Mac is another irritant.

     

    Just go to your local library and read David Pogue's manuals on the managing the conversion from windoze to Mac.  It's a THICK volume, not just an "Option/Alt Command/Ctrl thing" as you naïvely typed.

     

    There are more problems I haven't even hinted at.  You'll see them as time progresses.  As I said, it's not a prediction, is just remembering the past.

     

    I recently wrote, in this context, that "morons never learn from history."  It's not surprising that the yokels in charge of the forums are trying the same old thing all over again and expecting different results.  Insanity.

     

     

    ____________

    Wo Tai Lao Le

    我太老了

     
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  • Pierre Courtejoie
    7,043 posts
    Jan 11, 2006
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    Jan 9, 2012 3:12 AM   in reply to Astara_

    Astara, it will take a bit of time for the Mac users to insert the Windows shortcuts-references in their posts, and the other way around.

    We know get knowledgeable users from both platforms to help users.

    Yes, it will take some practice at the beginning, users should list their platform of use to get tailored results, but in its absence, others have to guess, and they will provide answers they are more confortable with, IE from their platform.

    Likewise, if a user ask a question without stating the version of Photoshop they use, most answers will be for the latest version.

    They could chose to throw a fit, or try to adapt, and post the specificities of their problem.

     

    Also there might be other changes upcoming that request an unified forum. Photoshop was one of the last programs that had separated forums, others are together.

    There is an adaptation period needed, but the benefits are greaters than the losses, I think.

    (Imagine, most localized forums mix users of all platforms, and programs.)

    It is the task of the users to state what their problem is, what they are working with, other users can either guess or ask.

    Even in the platform specific forums, it was needed to state what OS version, Photoshop version...

    Relax, learn who the new neighbors are!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 9, 2012 3:22 AM   in reply to Astara_

    Astara_ wrote:

     

    …The above is how the page looks to me…

     

     

    …are you guys on the Mac?…

    ROFL !    That's even worse than what it looked like to me in FireFox.    See:

     

    Picture 2.png

     

    Yes, I'm on a Mac and run a Stylish Add-On Script on my copy of Firefox that changes the fonts when someone uses Comic Sans to Chancery, Ariel to Verdana, Times to something else (I forget), etc..

     

    Gamma 2.2 has been the standard on the Mac since color monitors were introduced.  Gamma 1.8 had to do with monotone laser printers, not monitors.

     

    Don't worry about others disagreeing with you re the combined forums.  History will repeat itself eventually.  By then the forums will be a lot leaner than they are now and become irrelevant.

     

     

    ____________

    Wo Tai Lao Le

    我太老了

     

    Edited: 1.8

     

    Message was edited by: Tai Lao

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 9, 2012 3:27 AM   in reply to Tai Lao

    Tai Lao wrote:

     

    Then there's the terminology:  We don't "load" an application, we install it or launch it.  We don't "exit" the program either, we quit it.  Our printers don't have "properties", there are settings in the printer dialog boxes, etc.  There's no such thing as the registry on the Mac and no equivalent that I can think of.  Directories are folders, always have been. The list goes on and on…

    Mostly it's called all those things in Windows too, except exit/quit (although I'd say "close"). Install, launch, print settings, folders...yes, a Windows user would understand that exactly as you do.

     

    As for "printer properties", which I noticed you called out in another thread, that was simply wrong terminology. "Properties" are system level.

     

    "Load" is a term I really hate, and I wish people would stop using it. It is indeed "install" or "launch" as you say.

     
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  • Pierre Courtejoie
    7,043 posts
    Jan 11, 2006
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    Jan 9, 2012 3:37 AM   in reply to Pierre Courtejoie

    Well, some of the new neighbors are more vocal than the others

     

    Tai, If there was a failed merge in the past, that was maybe due to the fact that both platforms forums had developped cliques.

    Such groups, living in the confort of a forum, do see change as a menace. My feeling is that most users of both platforms are nowadays more welcoming to folks from the other side, maybe due to the fact that the Apple platform has more traction, is more known nowadays, and likewise, because many Mac users are switchers, so they know how things work on Microsoft's plaform.

     

    People do happily post in the cross-platform Camera Raw forum, that once was platform specific. Did we hear complaints of its mixity? Ditto in almost every other Adobe forum...

     

    Learning all that you have quoted will take some time, but we did learn many new functions of Photoshop in the past as well...

    Not understanding "folders" when "directories" is meant, or preferences/control panel is quite trivial.

    If needed, a thread could be started to list those differences, like the position of the preferences in menus, on the hard drives...

    A Rosetta stone (if you pardon the Apple-centric pun) might be useful to appease such concerns.

     

    As for the size of David Pogue's book for switchers, I would oppose the size of every of his "Missing manual" for new versions of OS X...

     

    As taking offense to the way Mac is spelled, frankly, if it is not meant as an attack (and it is never the case), isn't it being pedantic? What are the consequences? we know we do not talk about network cards's MAC addresses...

    On the other hand, I do recall seeing "windoze" being used often as a taunt of troll-bait in the now buried platform war threads (by the same persons that took offense of "MAC"). The intent of the spelling is an issue.

     

    Please allow me also to question the "We" that you used several times in your post.

    As said earlier, it seems to me most users of both platform are almost plaform agnostic, used to post on both sides, or at least have more knowledge of the specificities of the former "other side".

     

    We fear what we don't know. It's by learning what we will progress.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 9, 2012 4:03 AM   in reply to Pierre Courtejoie

    Pierre,

     

    Frankly, I didn't expect you to waste your time once more addressing me.  I thought you definitely knew better after all these years. 

     

    As it is now, I tried reading a few threads and was immediately struck how utterly uninteresting I found them once I started reading them and finding out they were windoze PC-specific, something that was not immediately apparent from the thread title.

     

    Then I began to realize that the only threads to which I've been replying do involve either criticism of the merging of the forums or cross-platform animosity of some kind and degree.

     

    Really, there's no point in my giving this forced miscegenation a further try.  This is exactly as I had expected.  There's nothing of interest left here—and sooner than even I had thought. 

     

     

    ____________

    Wo Tai Lao Le

    我太老了

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 9, 2012 5:12 AM   in reply to Astara_

    You asked about something that you assumed to be non-platform-specific.

     

    If one platform by default can display documents’ properties (in a way that may not be available on another one) that would be one platform dependent solution, even though it may leave the realm of Photoshop proper.

    And if a solution can be platform dependent might the problem not be considered the same?

     
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  • Pierre Courtejoie
    7,043 posts
    Jan 11, 2006
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    Jan 9, 2012 5:31 AM   in reply to Astara_

    Astara, be aware that a discussion you create does not solely exist for you.

    Other users might perform a search and find it, and we do not know what plaftorm they are using. (Google does not)

    So, the answers, while not being exactly relevant to you, (since your plaftorm was unknown at the time) are relevant to others.

    It is the benefit of an online forum compared to a private chat.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,514 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Jan 9, 2012 6:50 AM   in reply to Astara_

    Astara_ wrote:

     

    http://forums.adobe.com/servlet/JiveServlet/downloadImage/148754/adobe -post.jpg

    The above is how the page looks to me.

     

    If it doesn't render that way, or if it hurts your eyes, perhaps there is a problem with your settings?

     

     

    Heh heh heh, here's what at least some others are seeing, on PCs...

     

    AstarasPost.jpg

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 9, 2012 6:44 AM   in reply to Pierre Courtejoie

    >Tai, If there was a failed merge in the past, that was maybe due to the fact that both platforms forums had developped cliques.

     

    I'm already sick of reading the Windoze clique post to every message.

     

    So what's changed to make the merge work this time? The old way was fine, why was it necessary to change it?

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,514 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Jan 9, 2012 6:49 AM   in reply to Tai Lao

    Tai Lao wrote:

     

    Pierre,

     

    Frankly, I didn't expect you to waste your time once more addressing me.  I thought you definitely knew better after all these years. 

     

     

     

    Oooh, Ramon Castaneda reincarnated as Tai Lao ("Too Old") shows a few of his old spots again.

     

    You know what's really funny?  I can say pretty much anything I want about him or dis his choice in operating systems, and he won't respond because he's stated that he's "plonked" me, which means he's got special scripts on his system that keep him from seeing any of my posts (I'm honored; thanks for noticin' me, Ramon).  This after he bent over backward to try to discredit me publicly on a number of occasions, then, after having gotten too much egg on his face he decided to ignore me entirely.

     

    And now here we are, thrown together in one forum.

     

    Heh heh heh heh heh heh.  Oh, what I could do with this knowledge. 

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 9, 2012 7:15 AM   in reply to Pierre Courtejoie

    PECourtejoie wrote:

     

    Astara, be aware that a discussion you create does not solely exist for you...

    I'm pretty sure this discussion was just a rant that should have been left to soley exist for Astara.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 9, 2012 7:23 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Perhaps symplistic, but believe cross platform forums need a Mac - Win Dictionary as a sticky above each forum heading. 

     

    That way a Win user answering a Mac question can write it out as a Windows answer and the Mac user can go to the dictionary and see that answer means in Mac terms.  And visa versa.

     

    The easy ones are control = command, but need more specific references like where to look up version on ACR, where is Mac equivalent of User/app data/roaming - - - , and so forth.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 9, 2012 7:41 AM   in reply to Marian Driscoll

    Load, and not install or Launch? Whomever believes Load is the operating work in Windows is "out to launch", if I my say so myself. Working validation at Intel, I frequently install many items, always install, not load. Launch is far less frequent; Start is more common. Or just Run.

     

    In any case, careless use of expressions is common to the human species, at least those speaking English in the USA.

     

    Out to load the coffee maker. Bach in 1/2 hour, Offenbach sooner! (For the Old One).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 9, 2012 7:50 AM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Hudechrome,

     

    Think you have it all confused.

     

    To install you are taking a program from a source and "installing" it on memory system (flash drive, HD).

     

    To Launch your are using the installed program to open it up for use.

     

    To Load your are taking a program and charging memory so it will launch.

     

    At least that is my opinion.  I am shure there are others.

     

    P.S. you first have to Load the coffee maker with coffee and then hit "launch" for it to work.  Just pressing start will do nothing if you have not loaded the coffee.

     
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  • Pierre Courtejoie
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    Jan 9, 2012 7:50 AM   in reply to Curt Y

    Curt, I started such a thing: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/946377?tstart=0 and, once we'll have enough content, will forward the info to the other forum mods, they could adapt the info to their application.

    Feel free to list what you think should be there (even if you do not know the counterpart), and contribute if you can. I think that a similar one might be prepared for Bridge.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 9, 2012 8:14 AM   in reply to Pierre Courtejoie

    The feature I would appreciate having on the combined fourm is a set of check boxes on a New Discussion posting . The poster would have to check OS (PC or Mac)  and also check the version of Photoshop being used.  Without checking both boxes nothing would be posted and an appropriate message displayed to inform the potential poster.

     

    When a new posting is displayed to the forum the title would be prefixed by the OS and Photoshop version. This would not only help  people trying to answer questions, but allow those who want to bypass anyone operating an alien system  to do so quickly.

     

    Paulo

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 9, 2012 8:32 AM   in reply to Curt Y

    I stand by what I wrote.  If my boss asks: "Is the program installed?" and I answer yes, he/she would expect to go to my computer and bring it up from the HD. If I reboot and said program disappears (as in the case of Ubuntu when run as a trial) the program is not installed

     

    As for "Load", actually, reading the screen when Windows commences the installation of the OS, what does it say at the bottom of the screen, running by rather rapidly? It says "Loading....(drivers SCSI etc) for a considerable length of time. So it loads the initial requirements, then proceeds to installation. "Installation Complete" is what I see at the end.

     

    So far for nomenclature.

     

    As for the melding of Win and Mac, I have no problems per se, just with this sort of nonsense.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 9, 2012 8:32 AM   in reply to Paulo Skylar

    I'll second that!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 9, 2012 9:05 AM   in reply to Paulo Skylar

    Agreed 100%! On just about every tech and/or photography forum I visit, there's a "signature" area where people record that kind of information about their system. In fact on one particular manufacturer's support forum, OCZ if you must know, they have almost exactly what you're asking for, a specific area beneath your avatar on the left with an embedded form to record ALL the major system details. If someone posts a help question etc and their info is missing or incomplete, they're told to add it in and then come back. I think at least one person at Adobe must be smart enough to add that feature to this forum!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 9, 2012 9:17 AM   in reply to pf22

    I brought this exact suggestion up on the Comments Fourm when the switch was proposed http://forums.adobe.com/thread/939288?tstart=0.

     

    There was not much support for the idea, and no one from Adobe weighed in on the discussion, which they frequently do on that forum..

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 9, 2012 10:53 AM   in reply to Astara_

    Astara_ wrote:

     

     

    RE: WHy did Adobe decide to **try** to force Mac+Pc (;-)) users together ... when it's obvious they exist in completely different knowldege domains?

    It seems a bit odd that you are not seeing that the forums were blended because the users exist in completely different knowledge domains for a single product. It is called "pooling resources", "synergy", "cooperation".  We benefit from the varied perspective of others using the same tool that we use.

     

    Illustrator users do not have the hangup you have. InDesign users do not have the hangup you have. Acrobat users do not have the hangup you have. Flash users do not have the hangup you have. Dreamweaver users do not have the hangup you have. Fireworks users do not have the hangup you have. Premiere users do not have the hangup you have. After Effects users do not have the hangup you have.

     

    Do you see the pattern? 

     

    Adobe must have thought that Photoshop users were as smart as their other users. This thread questions that belief.

     
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