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Tom Nash
Currently Being Moderated

Initial reaction

Jan 10, 2012 2:22 PM

Tags: #soft_proofing #book_module #secondary_monitor

Love the new adjustments. Much more natural. 1 comment, 1 apparent bug so far:

 

Map module looks wonderful also.

 

Important Comment:

Wonderful to see Soft Proofing!!   BUT it only works on primary monitor. Many installations like mine have a large gamut well calibrated monitor as the secondary and use the poorer quality, weakly calibrated, primary just for grids, meta data, adjustment panels, etc. The secondary is kept clean of all panels and distractions so one can see the image alone. That's where one wants to look at a soft proof. Soft proofing becomes useless if it only works on the primary and not on the secondary.

 

Apparent bug: I accidentally opened the books module with a whole film strip selected and got a warning that some images were not included in the book. That dialog closed. There was also a Task Completed box (Preparing Book) with the progress bar at the end and a stop button that did nothing. Had to force quit.

 

More later, maybe

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 10, 2012 2:27 PM   in reply to Tom Nash

    Soft proofing is far from useless on a single monitor. Also, you might find the compare mode (Before/After) a lot more informative than single image

     

    lr4_21.jpg

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 2:30 PM   in reply to Tom Nash

    My most important initial reaction is that it seems to run leaner than LR3.

     

    My 4gb iMac does not seem to die a death so much with this beta. But then if it were to become to system hungry, a lot of upgraders would have been priced out due to the need to buy a new computer!

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 2:41 PM   in reply to Tom Nash

    I would have thought that the more common two monitor setup would have the better monitor configured as the primary. That's how mine is configured and how every other two monitor system I've had access to has been configured.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2012 6:21 AM   in reply to Pic4

    Pic4 wrote:

     

    My most important initial reaction is that it seems to run leaner than LR3.

     

    My 4gb iMac does not seem to die a death so much with this beta. But then if it were to become to system hungry, a lot of upgraders would have been priced out due to the need to buy a new computer!

    The disparity in system performance among users of the beta and LR3 really blows my mind.

     
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    Jan 11, 2012 6:49 AM   in reply to Tom Nash

    I don't understand the comment about Lr only allowing panels to be on the primary.  Can you not drag the window with the panels to the other display?  I use my primary (good) display for visual feedback while my second display (not as good) has the window with the panels.

     
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    Jan 11, 2012 7:05 AM   in reply to Tom Nash

    Excellent initial reaction. I particularly like brushes and grad for colour temp and sharpening. These are going to be a great tool.

    I need to use it in anger to find bugs.

     

    Monty Rakusen

     
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    Jan 11, 2012 8:16 AM   in reply to Tom Nash

    Might this bug be related?

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/4129113

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2012 10:30 AM   in reply to MadManChan2000

    MadMan:

     

    Thanks for the comment.

     

    I was not precise enough and was loosely equating the OS Primary and Secondary monitors with LR's "Main" and "Secondary Window" (aka 1 and 2). I always have had my Secondary Window on the OS Secondary monitor for the reasons I explained earlier. Since it was never previously necessary to move the Main window to the Secondary monitor, I am glad you reminded me of that possibility.

     

    So, it is possible to move the Soft Proof over to my high quality Secondary monitor and get a nice Soft Proofing display there. But it requires multiple steps: 1. Change Main from Full Screen to Normal Screen Mode; 2. Move Main to Secondary monitor; 3. Make Main full screen; 4. Close panels and top bar. 5. Look at soft proof in loupe or before/after mode. 6. Open adjustment panel and make adjustment; 7. Close adjustment panel ...

     

    This assumes you want to look at the soft proof on an uncluttered full screen. I (and many others who try to make high quality prints) would strongly argue that if you are trying to get the colors right in a print you need to get rid of all optical clutter. And you would like to do it without having to open and close a panel. This is (one of) the main reasons for having 2 monitors -- so you can have your adjustment panel away from the image you are looking at for small changes. Soft proofing is a prime example of where this is necessary.

     

    So,it would be really nice (just short of essential) to allow the soft proof image to be in the the Secondary Window in both Loupe and Compare (before/after) mode.

     

    .. and one more comment. I see why you have changed the background color for Soft Proof to white to make it clear it is a proof. But this is also a visual problem for those of us who use a middle grey as a background. You need to allow a choice for the background color with Soft Proofing on and allow the background color to remain unchanged.

     

    Thanks for listening.

     

     

    Edit: Seems I have 2 accounts. Thomas Nash and Tom Nash of the initial post on this thread, are both me.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2012 10:46 AM   in reply to Thomas Nash

    MadManChan,

     

    why can`t we just get a real multimonitor support like in PS? I would really like to have my panels (and only the panels) on the secondary monitor and my picture and menus on the primary. It`s important to have access and be able to see all the possible adjustments at once. Scrolling through panels or opening and closing them is just not effectiv and comfortable. Multimonitor support was requested by many people since LR1 as far as I recall. It would make LR much more effective.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2012 11:06 AM   in reply to klsteven

    I understand your requests.  Unfortunately, I can't really comment meaningfully on UI layout, since that's not the area of Lr that I work on.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2012 11:31 AM   in reply to klsteven

    Real multi-monitor support like in PS would really solve lots of issues, the most serious of which is the soft proofing problem I have described. But it may be harder to implement, as it is a major change in the UI, than just allowing a soft proof to be visible on the Secondary Window of the present UI.

     
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    Jan 11, 2012 11:41 AM   in reply to Thomas Nash

    Thomas, Klsteven, Agree with both of you looking for better multi-monitor support in LR. I'll take it one step further... I already have a 3-monitor desktop, two of the monitors are calibrated, and one of them  is pivoted into portrait orientation. I have LR configured to use the pivoted monitor as my secondary window. This gives me a much larger view of my vertical images, and saves quite a bit of the zooming in and out that you have to do when viewing verticals on a monitor that's in conventional landscape orientation. Shooting sports at least half of my stuff are verticals, the pivoted screen is a game changer.

     

    In my ultimate LR productivity scenario. I'd have modular control of panels and be able to add keywording from the Library to Develop (I hate the Library, Quick Develop is useless) and put those panels anywhere on my multi-screen desktop, probably on the uncalibrated monitor 3.

     

    Being able to customize the LR workspace on multiple screens goes to the heart of what a workflow app should be all about. I'm annoyed we still don't have this, don't tell me abut LR5,  I might be dead from lack of sleep by then.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 22, 2012 6:31 AM   in reply to Tom Nash

    To elaborate further on this issue, I have a Macbook Air (thunderbolt model) as my computer running LR4 beta and have a Dell u2410 as an external calibrated monitor. I move the 'main window' (e.g. develop module) to the Dell and have my grids on the Air display (and then switch to full screen mode). The softproofing monitor gamut warning thinks the monitor is the Air display rather than the Dell. However, if I close the Air's lid and go to clamshell mode, then LR4 softproofing recognizes the Dell u2410 as the monitor and uses its profile for the monitor out of gamet warning as it is now the main (and only) display.

     

    The os (Lion 10.7) knows which display is which (system pref - display - colors gives the correct proflie for each screen), but LR4, with me switching the main screen to the secondary monitor (the Dell), still thinks I am using the Air's display when calculating monitor out of gamut colors.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 25, 2012 6:11 AM   in reply to Tom Nash

    I agree. I believe the secondary monitor gets the correct profile. This makes sense, as I think the os runs the color management. Only the out of gamut warning is incorrect.

     

    And, as is mentioned elsewhere, the out of gamut warning really needs some way of telling us how far out of gamut it is. My Dell u2410 was just a hair (to use a technical term) out where it was out on the demanding test photos.

     
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