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What PC to build? An update...

Jan 11, 2012 6:37 AM

Tags: #cs5.5 #pc #system #build #components #budget
  Latest reply: Alain Van Haecke, Feb 10, 2014 4:35 PM
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 13, 2012 6:37 AM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Thanks for your answer Harm!

    Of course - it must be 16, 32 or 64, sorry for that question. I am reading too much about these things right now I guess, too much numbers, getting dizzy.

    As for the Low Volt Samsung sticks: is that really the only choise, or am I misunderstanding something? I do not know what "Micron chips" is, and have tried to understand latency and CAS numbering (through Wikipedia) - but this is too scientific  - after all I just want to know what RAMs to use.

    I can't seem to find any Samsung sticks at all - at least in my country (Sweden) - it's all Corsair, Skill, Kingston etc. And the vendors do not inform about chips-names nor voltages.

    If one cannot use any of the known brands nor find any Samsung sticks - I mean what do other people do? And why would Corsair, Kingston etc want to supply sticks that don't work well with i7 3930? I don't get it. I don't understand it. I want to, but I don't.

    Any light in this darkness will be greatly appreciated

     
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    Apr 13, 2012 7:31 AM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Thank you Harm,

    yes I have read your Planning article. Very good and rather front end. To me the Lian Li full tower is BIG

    Glad that I was not missunderstanding at least about the sticks.

    No, I am not in a hurry - just want to build my new machine, that's all - I can wait. Perhaps 8G sticks will emerge too.

    Thanks again.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 13, 2012 8:15 AM   in reply to RMO2011

    Good Question RMO but the problem has been essentially out of their control. I spoke to many at Intel and other Intel partners at the ISS conference about the 3930K. The problem essentially was 3960X's for the most part were sent to both Intel internal departments and hardware partners for testing. The 3960X's were the chips used by everyone for compatibility testing and bios testing. Some partners though have given more than enough feedback atleast in the East regarding the problems with the X79 and for what ever reason there has been very little movement on this. I have spent a ridiculous amount of time trying to convince Intel engineering the issues are there and only recently have seen movement/follow up on it. Last I heard they atleast had some idea what is going on but would not elaborate to me.

     

    So what options does that currently leave people. Well essentially the ram compatibility is extremely limited with the 3930K especially overclocked. I have been able to get Hynix modules to run at 1333 but not 1600. Samsung 1.5V or 1.65V modules were limited to 1333 as well. Most Micron modules would not stay stable above 1066 if they even worked at that in 4 or 8 configurations. The 1.5V or 1.65V modules that worked would get to hot though and spit out garbage data if you did not have cooling directly on them and the VRU. The only modules that have been bullet proof so far with XMP profile settings or even base 1600 profiles settings are the ones we currently have custom made Low Voltage. I spoke  to a Kingston engineer at the ISS and he said the Kingston Jedec spec modules would be Hynix, Samsung, Nanya, or Elpida. I spoke to Asus reps at the conference and they said Nanya was working well atleast with their testing. I did have a paid support client get some Kingston 8GB modules that were on the QVL list and those however did not work. They were not Jedec spec though and based on the timings I suspect they were PSC IC's. However speaking to another system configurator, the Kingston 1.5V ram that is Jedec spec was working at 1333. I am hearing these problems from other system configurators as well and the problems all revolve around the 3930K and ram especially with the CPU overclocked.

     

    So essentially that leaves you with the options of the major ram manufacturers in the West if you leave the ram at 1066 or 1333 and you get Jedec spec or the Low Voltage sticks which are extremely hard to get right now. Kingston should have some low voltage sticks out or coming as well atleast according to the engineer I spoke to. Kingston is normally conservative so I expect those modules to work once they are available if they are not already.

     

    Eric

    ADK

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 13, 2012 9:39 AM   in reply to ECBowen

    Hi ECBowen,

     

    thanks a lot for this orientation! This explains the problems to a certain degree - but not of course why no action is being taken (yet) by the RAM manufacturers. Hope you are right in assuming that Kingston may have something coming up. A Kingston 1.3V working at 1600 for instance.

     

    Have you tested the Samsung 1600 RAMs from Newegg, linked in Harm's post above?

    The user comments at the Neweggs page are very positive to these RAMs on the X79 with i7 3930K.

    As they are not often i stock (according to some of the users) perhaps one should consider buying a 32G kit - though it may be expensive because of the customs when importing to Europe.

    What do you think? I'm not in a hurry, just hungry

     

    Thanks again for your detailed information!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 13, 2012 9:41 AM   in reply to RMO2011

    Well I have to be careful what all I explain and how much I say because of the parties involved. What I can say is engineering at partners in the East are far more aware than Western engineering which is one major benefit of having direct TW contact.

     

    Unfortunately we have not tested the Low Voltage Samsung modules yet. When I requested them they had good stock. However by the time the purchaser went to get them from Disti the stock was at 1pc. So they were wiped out quick. I will hopefully have some soon that I can test.  The Low Voltage standard right now is 1.35V. Considering what grade it takes to run that I would be surprised if they release 1600 modules at 1.3V. If you are going to import them then I would get 32GB 8X4GB at one time. Even with Samsung you want to try and get the modules from the same batch incase binning changes certain sub timings in future productions.

     

    Eric

    ADK

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 13, 2012 3:25 PM   in reply to ECBowen

    Eric, Harm,

    I decided to buy a 32G kit of the Samsung low Volt RAMs (Harm's link above).

    So, I opened an account there, but it looks like you have to live in US, Canada or China to purchase anything. There is no field for Country in the personal settings.

    So I changed to Newegg Business(dot)com to se if they had an opening there.

    I didn't find one, but i found these RAMs there, Crusial, same low Volt 1.35V and CAS11 - and very cheap. Which is important when I am trying to come under customs critical level when importing from USA to Sweden.

    http://www.neweggbusiness.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682014847 7

     

    So 2 questions:

    1. Do you know these sticks? They look ok, but has anyone got any experience with them?

    2. How do other european residents purchase items from Newegg? Anyone got some experience with this?

     

    I have mailed a parallel question (to 2.) to Newegg, and waiting for a reply (24h). But any ideas would be very much appreciated, thank you.

    I thought this was going to be simple: sign up + PayPal - but it was not.

    ./.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 13, 2012 3:39 PM   in reply to RMO2011

    I have not tested the Crucials or had any paid support experience with them. Their site does not list enough information for me to say regarding timings and what modules. However CL11 for 1.35V is right and should be fine. It really will depend on the sub timings more than anything.

     

    I dont believe Newegg ships out of North America. You have to have the package forwarded by someone.

     

    Eric

    ADK

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 13, 2012 4:15 PM   in reply to ECBowen

    Thanks Eric,

    so, the usual problem - not enough info.

    Newegg: That's what I was afraid of/expected.

    Life is complicated

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 13, 2012 5:54 PM   in reply to RMO2011

    Found this, sold in Europe, 1,35V CL11, Crucial declares compatibility with Sabertooth X79:

     

    http://www.crucial.com/eu/store/mpartspecs.aspx?mtbpoid=53E75584A5CA73 04

     

    but no deeper information, nothing about i7 3930K. No 8G sticks, just 4.

     

    Wonder if Crucial will supply further information - if asked nicely?

    ./.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 14, 2012 3:13 AM   in reply to RMO2011

    Was about mailing Crucial to ask if my newly found RAMs contained Micron chips - which Harm said should be avoided in this context.

    Saw that the mailadress was (at)micron.com.

    Stopped the project - seems pointless.

    Don't know where to go next.

    Time-out.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 14, 2012 7:33 PM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Hi,

     

    Background: In anticipation of the CS6 upgrade I want to build a new PC.

     

    My leaning is towards an ASUS P9X79 Deluxe, i7-3930K, and I may well wait for a GTX 680 videocard...

     

    What concerns me is this talk regarding issues with Micron vs. X79 Deluxe/ i7-3930K - it seems I may have missed something in another thread - perhaps it would be useful to post more details here (since this is the 'go to' thread).

     

    In any case, the thought of buying 4GB sticks pains me... I really want to go to 32GB and would like the room to expand to 64GB if the need arises.

     

    I will dig some more but if anyone can shed light on the issue with Micron I would love to read more...

     

    Cheers! Dave.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 15, 2012 2:13 PM   in reply to RMO2011

    HEUREKA!

     

    After a lot of reading OC-forums and three days of googling, I have finally ordered 32 GB of Samsung DDR3 1,35V, 1600, C11 sticks from USA, for import to Sweden..

    It's really strange. A lot of people in Europe are screaming for these sticks, nobody is selling them.

    And most vendors in USA don't ship them internationally. Those who do are offering 1333MHz only, and astronomic prices.

     

    But here is one - the right stick, and same price as at Newegg's:

     

    http://www.ramexperts.com/samsung-green-mv-3v4g3d-us-8gb-2x4gb-ddr3-16 00mhz-1-35v-1-5v-vlp-ram-cl11-30nm.html

     

    Hopefully this link can be of some help for people outside USA searching for these sticks.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 17, 2012 9:10 AM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    This is greate stuff, but it seems like you always state that this may not be what you would use. I would like to know what you would use, since it seems that you are on top of this ever changing platform. This way I would have the BEST chance to create the BEST system according to the BEST advice I can find, thanks.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 18, 2012 7:32 AM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    That is a dream system Harm. I love it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 18, 2012 5:56 PM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Thanks for a awesome guide Harm Millaard!

     

    I'm building a workstation used mostly with RED or equal material.

     

    This is what I was thinking about:

    OCZ Z Series Gold Modular 850W

    Gigabyte GA-X79-UD5

    Intel Core i7 3930K

    Noctua NH-D14

    Corsair XMS3 Vengeance DDR3 PC12800/1600MHz CL10 4x8GB 10-10-10-27 latency (CMZ32GX3M4X1600C10) 1,5V

    Crucial m4 2.5" 128GB

    4x Western Digital VelociRaptor WD5000HHTZ 64MB 500GB @ 10000rpm

     

    Going to do 2x raid0 with the VelociRaptor disks for different source and output disks.

    Do you guys think that will be okay?

     

    I'm also wondering if I should use GTX580 with 3GB VRAM or if I should go for a GTX680 with 2GB?

     

    And what do you think about the memory, will I have any problems using them with the 3930k?

     

    Thanks in advance!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 6, 2012 3:32 PM   in reply to Micekhoho

    Yo!

     

    Very helpful info, learnt allot from it. Thanks Harm and everyone else

     

    I wish to create a system mainly for simple photo editing in Lr and very little Photoshop, but also for editing DSLR H.264 footage in Pr (mainly simple colorgrading etc.) and very little in Ae.

     

    Unfortunately I am on a very tight budget

     

    I already have:

    An external raid: CalDigit S2VR HD 1.5TB (This craves eater eSATA 2.0 or PCIe-x8)

    2x 2TB WD Caviar green

    500GB WD Caviar blue

    Cooler Master Silencio 550

     

    I intend to stripe the external raid for video editing in Pr and Ae (Is it overkill to stripe 5x 7200rpm drives for H.264 footage?).

    One of the 2TB drives will function as my main data drive, the other as external backup via SATA slot in the front of the cabinet.

    The 500GB drive will ether function as my OS drive, or as an extra data drive (if i choose to go SSD).

    I got the Cooler Master cheap. It is not a huge case, but i am not too concerned about fan noise (the raid is f****** noisy anyway!) and i can always upgrade this part.

     

    So... Now i just need all the important parts. I cant decide whether to go with a Z77 motherboard + i5 3550 or i7 3770, or a X79 motherboard and i7 3820.

     

    GPU wise i am thinking MSI GTX 570 1.28GB (it would be nice to render my color gradings with the mercury engine).

    PSU: Corsair TX V2 750w

    RAM: Corsair Vengeance 4x 4GB 1600mhz CL9-9-9-24 1.5v

    120GB SSD (havent come to a conclusion with this one yet.. I can see there has been a bit of a debate about it already)

    ICY BOX card reader (i use CF cards).

    Sony Optiarc DVD

     

    Later optional addons: Corsair H60 (if its too noisy/gets too hot)

     

     

    I know nothing about OC'ing, but i would like to try it.. I am attracted to the Asus motherboards, because they have the one button OC feature.

     

    Hope you guys can help

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 19, 2012 2:45 PM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Harm,

     

    Aiming for an Economic build, does this look like a good balance of components for a DSLR shooter?

     

    Intel i7-2600K with stock fan

    Z77-based Asrock mobo

    16 GB (4x4) DDR3 1600 (1.5 v) RAM

    nVidia GT 240 (already own this)

    SSD for OS; 3 WD Black HDDs

    750Watt Gold from Seasonic

    Lian Li aluminum case

     

    If you were to improve one item, what would it be?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 19, 2012 2:55 PM   in reply to Another Photographer

    Another Photographer wrote:

     

    Harm,

     

    Aiming for an Economic build, does this look like a good balance of components for a DSLR shooter?

     

    Intel i7-2600K with stock fan

    Z77-based Asrock mobo

    16 GB (4x4) DDR3 1600 (1.5 v) RAM

    nVidia GT 240 (already own this)

    SSD for OS; 3 WD Black HDDs

    750Watt Gold from Seasonic

    Lian Li aluminum case

     

    If you were to improve one item, what would it be?

    I'm not Harm, but that system needs an upgraded GPU: That system is strong on the CPU and weak on the GPU. Go with at least a GTX 560 Ti (or better still, a GTX 670).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 19, 2012 3:32 PM   in reply to Another Photographer

    I would buy a 560ti like the poster above me said. Or I'd look for a refurbished 570 on newegg if you could get ahold of one. Also stay clear of OCZ and go with the Intel 520 Intel does a wonderful job validating things before realeasing them to the public. If you want something reliable when dealing with SF controllers go Intel or Kingston.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 19, 2012 3:32 PM   in reply to ComputerNovice25

    Intel isn't the only "good" brand of SSD. Other "good" brands of SSDs are: Crucial and Samsung, plus certain Corsair models (Performance Pro, which does not use a Sandforce controller like other Corsair SSDs). However, I do not count Kingston as a "good" brand because all of its models use either JMicron or Sandforce controllers.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 19, 2012 3:55 PM   in reply to RjL190365

    I was refering to Kingstons valdiation for their Sandforce drives. Trust me I'm not refering to their JMicron drives. Also I should have made myself more clear and I apologize for that, but I was saying Intel is the best brand if you're going to purchase a SF drive.

     

    "If you want something realiable when dealing with SF controllers go Intel or Kingston"

    So as you can see I was trying to say if you want a SF ssd go Intel or Kingston. I wasn't saying they are the only good drives. So I apologize for not making that more clear. The reason I say Intel and Kingston are the best SF vendors is simply because their validation process is much bigger than OCZ's and all the smaller resllers.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 19, 2012 4:29 PM   in reply to Another Photographer

    Another photographer,

     

    I would suggest getting a good CPU cooler. You can get one for under $30 that will help tons with overclocking, and keep your cpu cool too even if you are totally opposed to OC'ing.

     

    Agree w/ SSD and GPU comments as well by others.

     

    Jim

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 19, 2012 4:38 PM   in reply to JEShort01

    I strongly suggest the Coolermaster Hyper 212 EVO. If you want to push it a little further overclocking wise get a second fan for push-pull operation.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 19, 2012 6:25 PM   in reply to RjL190365

    Thanks for the quick replies everyone!

     

    Is it clear yet which GPUs are good under Premiere Pro CS6, or is there still some debate there?

     

    Was it a mistake to get only 16 GB of RAM?  It was only $60 so I figure I could toss it and upgrade to 32 GB in the future without too much of a loss (prices will have come down).

     

    I will look into OC in short while.  That's why I went with the 2600K.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 19, 2012 6:58 PM   in reply to Another Photographer

    Prices on RAM are, if anything, creeping upwards slightly. Upgrading to 32GB if you are getting 4 x 4GB sticks will require taking out all of the RAM and replacing them completely: No LGA 1155 enthusiast-level motherboard has more than four DIMM slots.

     

    And as I stated earlier about the GPU, it is best if it is (relatively speaking) a good balance with the CPU that you'll be using the GPU with. Your existing GT 240 is OK for a slow system with only a dual-core CPU or an old LGA 775 Core 2 Quad-based PC, but will definitely bottleneck even a totally stock-speed i7-2600K, let alone an overclocked one (especially if your particular card has only 512MB of VRAM or uses slower DDR3 VRAM instead of the DDR5 VRAM).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 19, 2012 7:35 PM   in reply to RjL190365

    Good point about the VRAM--I checked and my GT 240 is luckily a DDR5 with 1 GB.  I realize I will need to upgrade it--the question is what to look for in a GPU for CS6?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 19, 2012 8:07 PM   in reply to Another Photographer

    1) Number of CUDA cores

    2) Memory throughput (in GB/s)

     

    Your GT 240 has only 96 CUDA cores and a memory throughput of only 54.4 GB/s. By comparison, the GTX 560 Ti that I recommend has either 384 or 448 CUDA cores, with a memory throughput of 128 to 152 GB/s.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 20, 2012 1:57 AM   in reply to RjL190365

    Just purchased:

     

    Cabinet: Cooler Master Silencio 550

     

    Motherboard: Asus P8Z77-M PRO

     

    CPU: i7 3770K 3.5Ghz

     

    RAM: 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance 1600Mhz CL9

    -9-9-24

     

    GPU: MSI N570GTX Twin Frozr II 1.25GB

     

    PSU: Corsair HX750W

     

    SSD: Corsair Force Series 3 120GB

     

    RAID: CalDigit S2VR HD 1.5TB

     

    Backup: 2x 2TB WD Green Caviar

     

    CPU cooler: Corsair H60

     

    CPU cooler fans: 2x Scythe Gentle Typhoon

     

    Front intake fans: 2x Sharkoon Silent Eagle

     

     

    I can't wait to see if it works! I hope the SSD is stable after reading the debate above :/

     

    The external RAID has an ekstreamly noisy PSU, but i think i may be able to connect 2x molex from the computers PSU instead.

     

    I also ordered an Icy Box card reader, but didnt realize it only was a 3,5'' and not a 5,25''

     

    So there you have a couple of things to look out for. I wil post again when the system is up and running. thanks for the help

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 20, 2012 3:31 AM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Yeah that was the one i wanted, but ordered the 3,5'' by mistake.

     

    Thats a monster of a computer by the way! :O

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 20, 2012 3:48 AM   in reply to RjL190365

    How about a GT 640 with 384 cores and DDR5 (but only 128 bit)?

     

    Does 32 GB v. 16 GB make a big difference in Premiere Pro CS6 with things like Warp Stabilizer?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 20, 2012 4:41 AM   in reply to Another Photographer
    How about a GT 640 with 384 cores and DDR5 (but only 128 bit)?

    Unfortunately, that particular version of the GT 640 is OEM-only (meaning that it is only supplied to big-name PC brands for use in their PCs at present). No retail cards are available in that configuration (at least not yet). The only announced retail version(s) of the GT 640 all use 128-bit DDR3 VRAM whose memory throughput is only about half that of your current GT 240 (28.5 GB/s on the GT 640 versus 54.4 GB/s on your current GT 240).

     

    In addition, that particular GT 640 and all retail GT 640s are Kepler-based, whose shaders are only about half as fast (relatively speaking) as the shaders in Fermi (GeForce 400- and 500-series). Put it this way, while Fermi shaders run at double the core clock speed, Kepler shaders run at only the same clock speed as the GPU core clock speed. This greatly diminishes, if not completely eliminates, the effect of the greater number of CUDA cores.

     

    As such, the GT 640 retail would not be a sufficient inprovement over your current GT 240 to justify its cost, in your case. It would cost around $100, all right - but its performance would be slower than even a two-generation-old GTS 450, let alone a GTX 560 Ti.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 20, 2012 9:33 PM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Harm Millaard wrote:

     

    I also ordered an Icy Box card reader, but didnt realize it only was a 3,5'' and not a 5,25''

     

    Change that order to the ICY Box IB-863-B, which is a 5.25" card reader. It is shown here: Adobe Forums: Planning / building a new system. Part 1

     

    A close-up picture is shown on the Case panel under the Drive Cages tab. The link to the website of the maufacturer can be found in the panel 'The price tag'.

    Hi Harm

     

    Do you know it the card reader part of it is USB 2.0 or 3.0?

     

    Thanks

     

    Ulf

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 20, 2012 11:43 PM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Thanks for the info Harm

     

    Ulf

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 21, 2012 10:52 AM   in reply to RjL190365

    In addition, that particular GT 640 and all retail GT 640s are Kepler-based, whose shaders are only about half as fast (relatively speaking) as the shaders in Fermi (GeForce 400- and 500-series).

     

    Is this an issue even with GTX 670 and GTX 680?  This is why I've been asking what the best GPUs are for CS6, and I get different answers without much in the way of explanation.  I am not averse to getting a 570 if it's significantly better than 560 Ti, for example, and will last a bit longer.  Should I look for Display Port for future monitors?

     

    The biggest performance issue I have currently in Premiere Pro is the Warp Stabilizer.  It takes a long time to do the initial computation.  In my machine, the GPU is idle during this phase of the Warp, so I assumed that upgrading the GPU would not help at all.  It is so darn slow that I don't think an OC'd hex-core would help even if it were twice as fast as my i7-2600K.  I do like the results of the Warp though, so I let it run while I go for a jog.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 21, 2012 11:23 AM   in reply to Another Photographer

    Another Photographer wrote:


    Is this an issue even with GTX 670 and GTX 680?

    Yes. This is exactly one of the reasons why the GTX 680 is only slightly faster than the previous-generation top-end NVidia GPU, the GTX 580, despite triple the number of CUDA cores. But you also have to remember that the total VRAM bandwidth of the GTX 680 is only about equal to that of the older GTX 580. This hurts performance to the point that a GPU with more cores isn't all that much faster (if at all) compared to an older GPU with fewer CUDA cores.

     
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