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Soft Proof for Third Party Printing?

Jan 12, 2012 8:38 AM

Tags: #printing #soft #beta #third #party #proofing

Julieanne's great training video covers Soft Proofing for monitors and local printers.  How about using it for exports to third party Printers?  All my work is exported to my Zenfolio sponsored website.  From there is purchased for print by further exporting it to MPIX who in turn ship it directly to the buyer.  How can I use Soft Proofing to optimize those photos.  With LR3 my highly random and guesstimate solution was to add +5 with the brightness slider.  I don't know why but its seemed to work even though the images were overly bright on my iMac monitor.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 12, 2012 10:26 AM   in reply to geb01

    It is my understanding that you can Softproof using any RGB (apparently LR can't use CMYK or Lab profiles) color profile. I would think if your lab offers a proofing profile for the printer(s) and paper types in question, you should be able to Softproof using that profile ...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 12, 2012 12:12 PM   in reply to geb01

    You wouldn't load it into LR ... but into your OS where all your other profiles are stored ... once there after you restart LR, it should show up as an optuon for Softprofing ...

     

    What system are you using?

     
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  • Victoria Bampton
    5,302 posts
    Apr 1, 2008
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    Jan 12, 2012 1:34 PM   in reply to geb01

    Once you've loaded it into your operating system, go to the Soft Proofing Profile pop-up and you'll see Other - click that to see a list of other profiles and put a checkmark against any you want in the main list.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 13, 2012 7:05 AM   in reply to Victoria Bampton

    It is just very unfortunate that only RGB profiles are supported. So Blurb for example, who seem to provide CMYK profiles, can't be properly softproofed (despite being the book provider in LR4)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 13, 2012 9:13 AM   in reply to SharpShots

    Yes, this should work fine. For example, I've used WHCC's ICC profiles (which you install in the OS, not Lr) for soft proofing.  But as noted above, only RGB profiles supported at present.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 15, 2012 9:08 AM   in reply to MadManChan2000

    So are there plans to support non RGB profiles? It seems bizarre to have a books module that can't be softproofed using the softproof module.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 16, 2012 4:44 AM   in reply to SharpShots

    I agree that this is strange. Just the fact that the book module does not allow any soft proofing or even brightness adjustment is strange. I still have to go to CS5. Is it that Blurb makes the adjustments based on some mean values?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 16, 2012 5:37 AM   in reply to Jozef-NL

    To be honest I had assumed that one would adjust the images in the Develop module, soft proof them there with the appropriate profile and then only use the book module to sort the layout (so brightness adjustment, etc. would have already been done by then in Develop)

     
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    Jan 16, 2012 6:03 AM   in reply to SharpShots

    In principle you are correct, but how to get the profiles for the various Blurp papers? These are as far as I could see not included in LR4.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 16, 2012 6:15 AM   in reply to Jozef-NL

    I found them here: http://www.blurb.com/b3info (though not for all papers)

    I have successly installed them in Windows, but LR4 doesn't support them as they are CMYK profiles (so they can't be used for soft proofing). Rather poor really.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 16, 2012 7:17 AM   in reply to SharpShots

    At present we do not plan to support CMYK profiles.

     
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    Jan 16, 2012 7:58 AM   in reply to MadManChan2000

    So you are saying that, as a consequence, there is no plan to enable books to be soft-proofed (Blurb use CMYK profiles). That doesn't seem particularly sensible.

     
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    Jan 16, 2012 8:07 AM   in reply to SharpShots

    No, I am not saying that.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 16, 2012 8:35 AM   in reply to MadManChan2000

    So I am confused. As I understand it:

    . Blurb is the book provider in LR4

    . Blurb only provide a CMYK print profile

    . "At present we do not plan to support CMYK profiles."

    So Blurb books produced in LR4 cannot be softproofed and there are no plans that would enable them to be.

     

    What have I missed?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 17, 2012 1:53 AM   in reply to SharpShots

    As far as I could see on the Blurp site they also offer RGB printing. I don't know at what quality though.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 17, 2012 1:53 AM   in reply to Jozef-NL

    sorry BlurB

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 17, 2012 4:17 AM   in reply to Jozef-NL

    Blurb do supply an ICC profile that can be used for soft proofing in an RGB workspace according to their Color Management page.  They also say that it can be used to convert output to cymk if needed.  Any users who can comment?

     

    Roger

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 17, 2012 5:49 AM   in reply to rogleale

    If you mean the one from here http://www.blurb.com/b3info , then if you install it Windows identifies it as a CMYK colour space profile and Lightroom won't use it. If there is another one that can be used then that would be great...

     
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    Jan 17, 2012 6:42 AM   in reply to SharpShots

    I tried to install the blurb profile to see if it would work. Installing in windows is easy as far as checking that it is in the folder for color management.

    But unlike other printer profiles I can't see it in the list in Photoshop or LR4. Maybe Blurb can help. I asked them to look at this discussion

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 17, 2012 7:13 AM   in reply to Jozef-NL

    Hi Jozef,

     

    Annoying isn't it.  I didn't try yet but if it is a cymk profile Blurb should say so.

     

    Roger

     
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  • Andrew Rodney
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    Apr 16, 2009
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    Jan 17, 2012 7:15 AM   in reply to Jozef-NL

    In terms of Blurb, unless you know for a fact that they use only one profile, then the soft proof debate is moot. And I seriously doubt they have one profile for all their papers (that is basically impossible). I’ve profiled a lot of digital presses, they all require a unique profile for each paper. So what I suspect is, this single ICC profile is just a feel good, marketing vehicle. Plus you can’t use it right? They require sRGB (that is what is exported from LR4 at the very least). So no, you can’t soft proof CMYK in LR4 but in this case, without specific profiles for each process, forget about it.

     

    FWIW, this is also true of all the labs that demand sRGB. You can’t control the rendering intent. You can’t know if Black Point Compensation is being used or not. You don’t know if that profile even reflects the condition of the device. You can’t post edit after a conversion. In such ‘workflows’, color management isn’t fully (properly) implemented. Find another lab or forget soft proofing and proper color management.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 17, 2012 7:31 AM   in reply to Andrew Rodney

    Wow! That is also disappointing also for Adobe and LR4. I have a good company Profotonet, with nice (expensive) phototbooks and indeed ICC's for each paper they use. But two drawbacks, they are Dutch and Adobe will not include it for obvious reasons in LR4

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 21, 2012 7:06 AM   in reply to Jozef-NL

    I've been trying to install the Blurb profile, I think Lightroom only sees .ICC files, the Blurb profile is an .ICM file, Photoshop can see it. I suppose theres a significant difference.

    However even if I could I accept that one profile can't suit all the different papers. I've just received two copies of the same book, one on the Proline Lustre, the other on premium lustre, they come out quite different.

     
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    Jan 21, 2012 7:35 AM   in reply to smithnc19

    Lightroom sees both .icc and .icm files.  The issue is that the Blurb-supplied profile is a CMYK type profile.  Lightroom only supports RGB profiles.

     
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    Jan 21, 2012 8:24 AM   in reply to Andrew Rodney

    In terms of Blurb, unless you know for a fact that they use only one profile, then the soft proof debate is moot. And I seriously doubt they have one profile for all their papers (that is basically impossible).

    This is correct. Blurb uses different printers/presses for different run sizes. You really cannot predict which one they will use and soft proofing to their one profile is really not useful. In fact I have tested this before and had two identical books printed with them, one using their (indeed cmyk) profile and one leaving all the images in sRGB. The sRGB one came out much closer to the original and the cmyk one came out too dark. In fact the cmyk one looked like what happens when I apply generic US web coated to images in their profile, so if you want to print with blurb, you're better off completely ignoring their profile and sending everything in sRGB as Lightroom appears to do. Of course you could have guessed this as they only offer a single profile, while they offer quite a few different papers as well as use multiple printers/presses.

     
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