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CodeLexi
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Pasting into Photoshop CS5 + Auto Resize

Jan 13, 2012 1:00 PM

Tags: #photoshop #cs5 #pasting #into

We copy a lot of existing elements from illustrator files into existing Photoshop documents. The dimensions of the Illustrator files are much larger, so we've always pasted into Photoshop and it resizes to the smaller photoshop document.

 

When I paste into the existing Photoshop document in CS5, I need the image/object to resize to my Photoshop document, instead of pasting in at the actual/original size.

 

Is there something I can change in preferences? Or a way to do this?

 
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  • JJMack
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    Jan 14, 2012 5:54 AM   in reply to CodeLexi

    If the saved illustrator files are a file types that Photoshop can open instead of using Copy/Paste try using menu File>Place>Filename.ext.  Photoshop will place into your Photoshop document the file as a smart object layer. If the file is larger then the Photoshop document canvas size the smart object layer will be transformed to fit within the documents canvas size.  You can also change the transform size during or after the place operation.  If the File placed in is a layered file like a Tif or PSD file double clicking on the smart object smart object icon in the layers palette will open the smart object in Photoshop as a work document so you can make changes.  Layers can change added and deleted. Layers opacity, visability etc can be set. When you then use menu File>Save Photoshop will update the smart object layer in your Photoshop document. So you can then do a close no save of the temporary smart object work document.

     
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    Jan 14, 2012 5:03 AM   in reply to CodeLexi

    If the file is larger then the Photoshop document canvas size the smart object layer will be transformed to fit within the documents canvas size.

    Are you sure?

    I tested it with ai, eps and pdf and even though Preferences > General > Resize Image During Place was set those formats were not sized to fit automatically, unlike psd and tif for example.

     
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  • JJMack
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    Jan 14, 2012 6:13 AM   in reply to c.pfaffenbichler

    Your 90 day warrantee from Adobe only states that Photoshop will work sustainedly as documented not absolutely as documented. I guess that is so Adobe can tell you that is working as designed its not a bug....  Adobe also changes the way things are supported much PDF function was removed from Photoshop CS5 forcing many to keep CS3 around.

     

    Is the Place Transform interactive or not? If it is it still a single interactive step..

     

    I'm a poor man only have Photoshop not extended no Illustrator.  If Adobe fixes the bugs I reported in CS5 in CS6 I may Upgrade else I'll revert back to CS3 and think about buying into Lightroom for Camera Raw Support.  The Update Adobe been making to Photoshop has introduced bugs that have a high impact on me. The new features I don't have much use for have a low impact the only area that is changing that I desire is in Adobe Camera Raw support. So Lightroom version x Plus CS3 may be the way to go except one of my two machines my laptop is running XP which new versions of Lightroom will not support. I refuse to run vista and my perfectly good Laptop is not supported by Windows 7.

     
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    Jan 14, 2012 6:54 AM   in reply to JJMack

    Is the Place Transform interactive or not? If it is it still a single interactive step.

    If you mean if the transfrom-handles are active for the placed SO then yes.

     

    Anyway, it’s not a real issue for me.

    The OP may want to look into automating the task, but Actions might fall short for this task compared to Scripts.

     
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  • JJMack
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    Jan 14, 2012 7:37 AM   in reply to c.pfaffenbichler

    Script may be better then actions for may depend on the version of Photoshop he has and how well layer bounds and selection bounds work.  In my Photo collage toolkit scripts I had to consult with Rube Goldburge to be able to scale placed documents to a alph channel cropping mask.  There were bugs in CS2 or there was no selection boundry scripting function. After the automatic place I always scaled the place image to 100% so I could get the actual size no matter what the Place resize Photoshop preference was set to.  I then center aligned the image to a selection made by loading Alpha Channel  use it as a Cropping Mask adding it to the layer as a layer mask. Rube help me with getting the selection boundry so I could then transformed the placed image to just fill the selection boundries. Alpha channels can have any shape and be indepent of images aspect ratio for example.

    http://www.mouseprints.net/old/dpr/BatchCollage/Collage_1_4_6x4+FDNYonTopG.jpg

    and with portrait aspect ratio alpha mask

    http://www.mouseprints.net/old/dpr/BatchCollage/Collage_1_4_4x6+FDNYonTopG.jpg

     
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    Sep 21, 2012 7:54 AM   in reply to CodeLexi

    I have the same problem, I think, but it is occasional rather than consistent. I keep Illustrator and Photoshop going simultaneously. I work up something in Illustrator, basing it on a photoshop image as a template, then copy it, and paste it into that very Photoshop file. From time to time-no idea why- the Illustrator graphic will export into Photoshop at a different size. It won't fit, and I have to enlarge it (usually) to fit right. All this in spite of the fact that I built the Illustrator material using the Photoshop file as a template. What is happening here? I can work around it, but why should I have to? Can anybody tell me why it might be happening and suggest some way to get rid of it? It's probably a preferences issue, but which one?

     
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    Sep 21, 2012 8:07 AM   in reply to Birck

    If the Illustrator document and Photoshop document have different resolution (ppi) then scaling will occur when Photoshop makes the imported object measure the same number of inches as it did in Illustrator.

     
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  • JJMack
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    Sep 21, 2012 9:31 AM   in reply to conroy

    From what I have observed making composit when I paste or drag drop an image document that has a different resolution then the composit I'm working on is that photoshop just scales the image being pasted in to have the same print DPI resolution. Photoshop does not change the number of pixels the pasted in image has thefore the print size of the image being pasted changes from the size it would print in the original.   For example if I were working on a 16" x 20 "  300DPI composit the number of pixels in the canvas is 4800 x 6000 and I past in an image 4" x 6" 240DPI the number of pixels in the image  960 x 1440.  when these pixels are pasted into the  16" x 20" 300DPI document the size on the image in the composit is 3.2  by 4.8" at 300DPI

    240into300.jpg

     

    Place is a different story Photoshop will resize larger images to fit with a document with Photoshop Default Place resize preference.

     
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    Sep 21, 2012 9:36 AM   in reply to conroy

    Considering that Illustrator is a vector program and supposedly resolution-independent, I don't know how to change the resolution on an Illustrator document. The only reference I could find in Illustrator to resolution is under the "Document Setup" menu item, in regard to transparency, where it's limited to High, Medium and Low. I've run into this problem when pasting a section from one Photoshop file into another, and it turned out the resolutions were different. That made sense. But I have no idea how to change the resolution of a file in Illustrator. Please enlighten me.

     
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    Sep 21, 2012 9:56 AM   in reply to JJMack

    JJ, the question regards pasting from Illustrator to Photoshop, not pasting from Photoshop to Photoshop. When pasting from I to Ps, the pasted object's size in inches is honoured.

     

    Here is a 4" x 4" 72 ppi Photoshop document into which I've pasted a 1" x 1" 300 ppi raster image created by Illustrator. The pasted layer is 1" x 1" but is far smaller in pixel count than it was in Illustrator. The same honouring of size in inches will happen when pasting vectors from I to Ps.

     

    Screen shot 2012-09-21 at 17.55.03.png

     
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    Sep 21, 2012 10:02 AM   in reply to Birck

    When you create a new Illustrator doc, you can set the raster ppi at 72, 150 or 300 ppi. I thought you would be pasting Illustrator rasterizations of vectors because Photoshop ruins the rendering of imported vector objects that are designed to be pixel-perfect in Illustrator.

     
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    Sep 21, 2012 10:11 AM   in reply to conroy

    Okay, then we know that Photoshop honors size over pixel count. Fine. But that just begs the question: If Photoshop honors size, and I have created an Illustrator patch for a 300 dpi Photoshop document, and the patch was created (drawn) in Illustrator over an imported copy of the very Photoshop document it's being pasted into (as a template), then the size of the patch should precisely match the area into which it will be pasted in Phoroshop, right? Photoshop honors size-usually, but in my experience not always. Why not always?

        I just got your second note-How do I set the raster ppi? In 27 years of using Illustrator I've never seen a setting  for raster ppi, but that's why I showed up here-where is the setting? I've gone through Preferences-nothing there. Where?

     
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    Sep 21, 2012 10:21 AM   in reply to Birck

    You can set it when creating new document. You can change it with Effect > Document Raster Effects Settings.

     

    Screen shot 2012-09-21 at 18.14.09.png

    Screen shot 2012-09-21 at 18.16.50.png

     
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    Sep 21, 2012 10:42 AM   in reply to conroy

    I see what you're talking about. So there is a rasterize setting in Illustrator. But because I've never used Illustrator for "effects", and was unaware of it, it's always been set on 300ppi.

    So the mismatch must be in the Photoshop file settings. That has happened at times, I know, usually because of"Resample image"-I've checked and found 240ppi, or 400ppi.

         I still don't know exactly why it happened this time. The numbers all match, but I'll know where to look in the future. That's one problem with being an old hand at this-I'm not all that aware of some of the changes that have been made in Illustrator since, oh-1990. Thanks for the help, and for going to some lengths to show me where to find the settings.

     
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    Sep 21, 2012 11:03 AM   in reply to Birck

    Here's an example of Photoshop butchering the rendering of Illustrator artwork that has not been rasterized by Illustrator. The Illustrator vector artwork is pure black and white aligned to pixels. Look at the gray pixels created by by Photoshop rendering the vectors. The Photoshop rendering will be perfect if you rasterize with Illustrator at same ppi as the Photoshop document and import/paste the raster into Photoshop.

     

    Screen shot 2012-09-21 at 18.51.54.png

     

    Screen shot 2012-09-21 at 19.00.41.png

     
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    Sep 21, 2012 11:12 AM   in reply to conroy

    Thanks for showing me the examples. It looks as if i would be well advised to rasterize in Illustrator. I work in line a lot in Illustrator and export to PS, into drawn and scanned illustrations, so this definitely gets my attention. I've never noticed a problem, but I'll try using the Illustrator Rasterize function and see what happens. Thanks for making that point.

     
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  • JJMack
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    Sep 21, 2012 12:58 PM   in reply to conroy

    conroy wrote:

     

    JJ, the question regards pasting from Illustrator to Photoshop, not pasting from Photoshop to Photoshop. When pasting from I to Ps, the pasted object's size in inches is honoured.

     

    Here is a 4" x 4" 72 ppi Photoshop document into which I've pasted a 1" x 1" 300 ppi raster image created by Illustrator. The pasted layer is 1" x 1" but is far smaller in pixel count than it was in Illustrator. The same honouring of size in inches will happen when pasting vectors from I to Ps.

     

    You have me at a disavantage I do not have illustrator and I do not use a Mac.  On PCs Windows Clipboard is a system thing.  Its size can vary and it seems to be able to handle two types of Data "Text" and "Image" so I'm sure there is some discriptor data DPI may well be there as well as pixel size. Perhaps also what Program copied the data to the clipboard. So Photoshop may well do some resizing if when it does the past operation it see it was put there by illustrator at a 300 DPI setting and the image bounds is 300 px by 300 px.  Photoshop could easily resize it to 72 px by 72 px at 72 DPI.  Its also hard to see what you have pasted for all I see is  the bounding transform box of the move tool for in the layers palette Layer 1 look transparent or is an out line. For the layer seems to be centered on the canvas and is 1/16 the size of the canvas so its thumbnail should show something and be visible over the white background with normal blend mode 100% Opacity and Fill. So the clipboard must have transparent pixels for thumbnail is mostly transparent from what I see. It may be the 300dpi rastersize text

     
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    Sep 21, 2012 2:00 PM   in reply to JJMack

    JJMack wrote:

     

    You have me at a disavantage I do not have illustrator and I do not use a Mac.  On PCs Windows Clipboard is a system thing.  Its size can vary and it seems to be able to handle two types of Data "Text" and "Image" ...

     

    About 20 years ago, when I was using Windows 3.1, the Windows clipboard handled more types of data than a generic "text" and "image". Here's an overview of Windows clipboard formats today: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms649013(v=vs. 85).aspx

     

     

     

    JJMack wrote:

     

    ... Its also hard to see what you have pasted for all I see is  the bounding transform box of the move tool for in the layers palette Layer 1 look transparent or is an out line. For the layer seems to be centered on the canvas and is 1/16 the size of the canvas so its thumbnail should show something and be visible over the white background with normal blend mode 100% Opacity and Fill.

     

    The Illustrator 1 inch square raster was transparent apart from a black border and text.

     
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    Sep 21, 2012 2:02 PM   in reply to JJMack

    Dear all: I just tried fiddling with the Photoshop prefs "Resize image during Place" entry. I brought up a PS graphics file, checked my Illustrator settings to make sure 300dpi (high) was selected, opened the same image in AI as a template, traced a graphic on it into AI, copied the traced AI object, switched back to PS and the original, and pasted it in. That was with "resize image" checked on. Then I unchecked "resize image" in PS and went through the same process again, with the same "high" setting in AI. Result: Both delivered the same result. Nothing got resized, the export would have served my purpose, and both files were rated at 300 dpi. 

         So I still don't know exactly what goes wrong here, but now I'm better equipped to fix it if it happens again. Thanks.

     
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    Sep 21, 2012 2:19 PM   in reply to Birck

    I solved the mystery. The original file that I was trying to paste an Illustrator graphic into was set at 240dpi. No wonder the results looked hammered. On the other hand, I will start rasterizing in AI now. Thanks for the tip.

     
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  • JJMack
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    Sep 21, 2012 7:27 PM   in reply to conroy

    The important thing to know is that Clipboards at OS system thing that support different formats of data. Clipboards are convenient for passing information between  applications and system through system feature called the clipboard. Screen  capture and application data can be copied to the clipboard by a user using system or application hot-keys and application UI and then Pasted into application by the user. How an application handles the paste can vary.  Like most I don't need to know the actual data format for I no longer program for a living I'm retired from that mountain the avalanche overtook me. I could no stay ahead of it.

     
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    Sep 23, 2012 2:43 PM   in reply to Birck

    Birck, you don't have to worry about the bad rasterizing by Photoshop that I showed above. I see today that it happens in CS6 but not CS5. That explains why you've never noticed a problem.

     
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    Sep 23, 2012 2:59 PM   in reply to conroy

    Dear Conroy:

         Well, so there are some advantages to sticking with the tried-and-true, eh? I will probably start rasterizng in AI anyway.  I never knew it was there, let alone tht it could be useful.

     
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    Sep 23, 2012 5:08 PM   in reply to Birck

    Yes, you'd be safer to rasterize, anyway. I wouldn't trust CS5 to get it right all the time, anyway.

     
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    Sep 6, 2013 8:20 AM   in reply to c.pfaffenbichler

    I don't see where this was pointed out in the discussion, but whether objects are resized during "Place" depends on the Photoshop preferences selected.   It seems I always want to change those preferences because in some cases I want to resize like when placing a watermark or text, and sometimes I want to keep the actual image size - as when layering a foreground over a background.  The option is found in "Edit -> Preferences - General"

     

    ResizeDuringPlace.png

    It would be swell if actions could hard code "resize" or not.  By the way, the other option that affects operation is "Place or Drag Raster Images as Smart Objects".  That's another setting where sometimes you want it to be smart, sometimes not.  If you keep the option "smart" you can always rasterize.  But if you rasterize ... you may not get a decent results by trying to later smarten it.

     
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    Oct 31, 2013 5:16 PM   in reply to CodeLexi

    Hi CodeLexi,

     

    I am find the exact same issue when pasting from AI to PS.

     

    Generally speaking (in past versions of PS), if the AI clip (not file) is smaller than the PS canvas, the AI clip size would remain.  If the AI clip is larger than the PS canvas, the AI clip is resized (shrunk) to the size of the PS canvas.

     

    The above 'rule' does not apply to PSCS5.

     

    Does anyone know why?  Or if there is a setting to correct the behaviour?

     

    Thanks for any help.

     
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  • JJMack
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    Oct 31, 2013 8:33 PM   in reply to Lamensterms

    Lamensterms wrote:

     

    Hi CodeLexi,

     

    I am find the exact same issue when pasting from AI to PS.

     

    Generally speaking (in past versions of PS), if the AI clip (not file) is smaller than the PS canvas, the AI clip size would remain.  If the AI clip is larger than the PS canvas, the AI clip is resized (shrunk) to the size of the PS canvas.

     

    There is a big difference between Placing and Pasting.  When a image is placed into a document the layer is a smart object layer. The layers embedded object is a copy of the placed image file any image format. Layered, Raw or flat. If the composite image pixels  will not fit within the documents canvas the smart object layer may be scaled to fit within the document canvas by the smart object layer's  assocated transform depending on the users Photoshop preference for how place should work.

     

    There is also a Photoshop preference that instructs Photoshop to Place dragged raster images in as smart object layers.

     

    Pasting in works differently. Photoshop preserves the pasted in image size. That is if the contents of the clipboard has a different Image DPI resolution Photoshop will transform the pasted in image to match the document resolution the pasted in image pixels will be transform resample interpolating the number of pixels up or down in size. The results may or may not fit within canvas. If there was a resize during paste it can not be undone for the original pixels have been interpolated and no longer exists. Photoshop supports any size layers the need mot ne canvas size. Only pixels over the canvas will be visible.

     

    Placed image original pixels exists for the layer composite image. The smart object layer associated transform may be transforming that composite's size however you can always change the smart object layers transform to 100% and recover the original pixels.

     

    I do not have AI if you are using drag and drop from AI it may be the other setting in Photoshop preferences to place dragged raster image as smart objects.  I would also think dragging a vector from AI would get into Photshop as a vector layer like a shape layer.   Copy Paste may not work the way you want.

     
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    Oct 31, 2013 10:35 PM   in reply to JJMack

    Hi JJMack,

     

    Thanks for the reply.

     

    I appreciate the fact that copy+paste and place are 2 different operations.  Until I found this article this morning... I didnt even realise there was such think as 'place'.

     

    My procedure has always been to copy into the clipboard (CTRL+C) from AI and paste (CRTL+V) into PS (Windows).  In the past I have always achieved good results with this method. Occasionally I would have to tinker with the AI source to get it to look right in PS (colours, line thicknesses, etc).  But I never had any other issues with this method.  When I paste into PS from AI I am promted with a dialogue which allows me to choose how I would like PS to treat/adapt the AI clip (Smart Object, Pixels, ... and a couple other options).

     

    I only realised today that PS was not shrinking the AI clip down to suit the size of the PS canvas.

     

    Thanks again.

     
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  • JJMack
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    Nov 1, 2013 8:42 AM   in reply to Lamensterms

    Yes many Photoshop users that know they know how Photoshop Place and Paste work. Even when they do know. Their actual understanding may not comprend the whole story yet. For they have may not had to seen all the variations of Place and Paste and haven't given the subject deep thought.

     

    A lot has to do with size.   Many users think about size differently for there are several sizes when it comes down to it..   When Photoshop documentation states size its best to think "Print Size" You know this has to do document resolution and the number of pixels in the document. It what make the physical print size    When images are Pasted and Placed into some other document Photoshop maintains the new layers  "physical print size"  If the two document do not have the same resolution the image going into the document will be scaled to the receiving document resolution it does not mater how your Photoshop preferences setting are set.  There will be scaling size change made.   The result may or may not fit within the receiving documents canvas.  In the case of place if what is being place in does not fit. What does not fit may be scaled to fit within the receiving document canvas size.  Place images are smart object layers and the object pixels are the original ones for the object.  All smart object layers have a single transform associated with them. This transform may or may not scale the original image.   Image that have the same resolution may just be scale to 100% and have not change in number of pixels.  When the object being place is larger the canvas size depending on the Photoshop's Preference Place object resize option the object may be resized to fit within canvas its print size will be different then the original object.  Its only when you have been puzzled by some Photoshop's Places and Paste operation that you deepen your though process and inveterate the subject thoroughly that you see the whole story

     

    Target a placed in image smart object layer  and use the free transform shortcut key to see the current associated transform. Look in the option bar at its scale setting it may surprise you.

     

    I will admit my knowledge was very faulty till I started scripting place and had to deal with how Photoshop did the operation. I had a lot of problems till I realized what was happening. I then realizes that I could scale the placed object to 100% get it back to its original pixels then transform these pixels to where I needed them to be and scaled to the size I needed.

     

    As wrote I don't have AI. Since AI is an Adobe product  when you use copy in AI and paste in PS  I can beleive that Photoshop may well know that the clipboards contents were copied there from AI and Photoshop may give you options like to use paste or place.   I would think any resizing done to the clipboards pixels is done by Photoshop not AI.

     

    Message was edited by: JJMack

     
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