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Premiere Pro CS5.5 -very strange issue with the color tones and Preview-

Jan 19, 2012 7:34 AM

I deal with a very strange and not usual problem in Premiere Pro CS5.5 (also the version CS5). What I try to do is just a simple color correction. The problem occurs when I try to use Three Way Color Corrector but it happens with Fast Color Corrector also.
When applying the Three-Way Color Correction and without changing anything else (just applying), can be seen in the preview of the soft how sudden changes in color tones. For example, the gray tone becomes a little more green, but also can be seen very easy a change in the other color tones too. In fact even RGB Parade show the same thing. This is very, very strange and unacceptable and saw that it happens when trying to use Colorista II too.
I tried the same thing in Sony Vegas Pro 11 and I downloaded the trial version of Edius 6 to convince me if the same thing happens. Not! In Sony Vegas and Edius everything is working correctly, I have not experienced these problems in the preview's of this 2 others softs.
This issue is very annoying because every possible color correction is based on what we see in the preview and if in this preview the tones are seen altered realize that can not make a decent color correction. So what happens here?!? I uploaded a small video demonstration to see very clearly about what I'm talking. You can see in the next link: http://vimeo.com/35317616

 

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 19, 2012 8:12 PM   in reply to Hewlet_Zar

    Have never had this happen, myself.

     
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    Jan 21, 2012 2:30 PM   in reply to Hewlet_Zar

    I find it very hard to believe that I'm the only one who is faced with this issue.

     

    I didn't mean to suggest you are.  Just that it's never happened to me.

     

    Not every Premiere Pro user comes here, even if they have a problem.  I can think of two other forums where PP users might post.

     
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    Jan 21, 2012 12:04 PM   in reply to Hewlet_Zar

    I will check this out in my system later today when at the studio.

     

    You have well demonstrated  your point (issue) .

     

    I have seen similar level changes when effects have been applied.  Kind of a "pre set up" ...but I have never noticed the hue shift. 

    Will look closer and report back

     

     

     

    ...and Jims comment only stated that he does not have the same issue and suggested you could check out the other Premiere Forums as well. 

     

    (Doesnt pay to get to "sensitive" around here Hewlett ...so let it go.)

     

    Your participation is desired if it shows a bug or what ever.

     
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    Jan 21, 2012 12:28 PM   in reply to shooternz

    I can confirm this on my system, changes can be seen in RGB Parade etc. but not in "real" video (in my case). But I totally agree with you, Hewlet_Zar, this shouldn't happen and have to be fixed. Btw. I tried native Adobe projects and Blackmagic projects - same results.

     
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    Jan 21, 2012 12:44 PM   in reply to spreeni

    CS5. I cannot see differences in video, and shifts in scopes are small. DV is less sensitive than AVCHD and XDCAM.

     

    Variables to track may include such things as presence of CUDA (on or software only) and Preview selection from project settings.

     

    Do the changes appear on export?

     
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    Jan 21, 2012 1:35 PM   in reply to Stan Jones

    Check it with a synthetic clip - Bars and Tone as well as a video clip.

     
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    Jan 21, 2012 1:39 PM   in reply to shooternz

    He has; I did as well.

     
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    Jan 21, 2012 2:33 PM   in reply to Hewlet_Zar

    I don't know what to understand by "that it's never happened to me".

     

    It just means I have no experience with this problem.  You asked for a "tally" of sorts with your second post.  So I responded.

     
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    Jan 21, 2012 3:38 PM   in reply to Hewlet_Zar

    I checked using a synthetic clip and the issue exists for me also ...but not in all the Color correctors.

     

    Solution ..avoid the one(s) that have the issue.

     

    Apart from Levels in PPRO....I usually CC and Grade critical work in Resolve.  ( waiting for Adobe Speedgrade to emerge)

     
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    Jan 22, 2012 3:51 PM   in reply to Hewlet_Zar

    bug report (and feature request) form

     

    My experience is that they are taken into account. When a bug is unclear, I have been contacted by the staff member asking either why it matters, or regarding their not being able to replicate something.

     

    They do not indicate whether they consider it a bug or share the list of bugs.

     

    There is more particpation on the list by Adobe employees (than, say, 3 years ago), and often very forthcoming descriptions of issues.

     

    I describe the bug sufficient for them to replicate (yours does not need to be long), and I provide a link to a thread like this for added information.

     
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    Aug 2, 2012 1:14 AM   in reply to Hewlet_Zar

    Yes, I've been seeing something similar ever since I "upgraded" from CS4 to CS5 >> CS5.5.

     

    Simply described:

     

    Lay my video into the edit timeline (.mpeg). Add an effect, any effect although I tend to use, Proc Amp, Sharpen and RGB Curves. Correct the video, using scope and video scope, to legal levels 0.7 video, set blacklevel, colour correct using scope and subjective assessment using monitor.

     

    As a result of using effects, my timeline bar goes yellow. And as sometimes (especially, if I have used an After Effects Link) the video playback can be a little jerky (I use a GTX 580 graphics card - i7, 24GB RAM), I render (timeline bar goes greeen) and playback is fine.

     

    What I see after the timeline is rendered is my video waveform scope values increase by as much as 5-10%. This change is seen across all scopes.

     

    If I change ANY value in the effects, the video value returns to that previous, correct level. Change the effects parameter back to the previously rendered value, and I see the scope value increase to that previously seen.

     

    I do not notice a visual change in the output program monitor, but it is quite noticable in the Prem Pro reference scopes.

     

    Now, please do not tell me this "bug" has been corrected in CS6, as I have no intention in "upgrading" again and handing over more money to Adobe just yet. Clealry, this is a "bug" and should have been fixed in an update, not fixed in the next release.

     

    The annoying thing about this is that I have no idea using the Prem Pro reference monitoring whether my video levels are correct, or are indeed 5-10% over-driven in the video - hard to say.

     

    Advice needed please.

     

    Many Thanks

     
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    Jan 17, 2013 8:36 AM   in reply to Hewlet_Zar

    I have had this exact same issue and it is alarming, to the extent that I will not longer be colour grading with Premiere. If one enables maximum bit depth in the sequence then the actual image appears to not change at all with the application of the various effects. HOWEVER using an RGB parade the change is revealed. This is an issue!

     
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    Apr 26, 2013 1:59 PM   in reply to Hewlet_Zar

    I was wondering if this issue was ever resolved. I'm having the same problem in CS5. I see you posted this last year but I've been searching off and on for a month or more for a discussion about this. I see the same thing in the RGB parade scope. It seems to slightly increase color saturation when I play the clip in the timeline and also when I click my mouse on the line beside ''opacity'' I see the clip with no saturation change .If I then click on the line below beside '' time remapping''  or hit the spacebar to play, it increases the saturation again. This is happening with no effects on the clip. I have to really over saturate the clip to get normal saturation on the final export. So what I see is not what I get for color. I Thought I could use PP to edit with and color in another app, but it's not usable like this if it's changing color saturation when I play a clip. Any help would be appreciated!

     
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    Apr 26, 2013 4:19 PM   in reply to Hewlet_Zar

    Thanks for the quick response. Wow....This is not good news. I was really hoping you were going to tell me the bug was fixed. I can't keep buying software that doesn't do what it's supposed to. I'm not sure where to go from here. I need  a video editor that's not buggy!

     
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    Apr 26, 2013 4:23 PM   in reply to stark_54

    There probably is no such thing.  The more realistic call might be for an NLE whose bugs you can work around (or at least don't affect your work flow).

     
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    Apr 26, 2013 4:38 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    That probably would be a more realistic call,but I can't see a work around for this one.

     
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    Apr 26, 2013 6:03 PM   in reply to Hewlet_Zar

    I  used Vegas pro 8 a few years ago but didn't have a very powerful computer. I liked Vegas back then . I may look into it. I have a Mac now so I would have to set up a dual boot system to run Windows....more money! I know most people don't mention Vegas for editing like all of the other so called pro apps, but if it does the job that's what I want. judging from your last comment it must be stable software.

     
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    Apr 26, 2013 7:27 PM   in reply to stark_54

    I can't see a work around for this one.

     

    Well, upgrade for one.  I don't see this happening on several of the built in effects for CS6, nor does it happen for Colorista, which is my go-to effect.

     
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    Apr 27, 2013 12:15 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    I agree with Jim, try colorista. It gives me better results than the build-in color correction and produces nearly no jumps in scope.

     
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    Apr 27, 2013 5:22 AM   in reply to Hewlet_Zar

    Yes, I tried it in my CS5.5. I can see the changes in picture and RGB Parade when using the build-in 3-way color correction, but I see nearly no changes when putting colorista on a clip (only a very slight change in RGB Parade - VERY slight, not noticeable in picture - yes, I tried gray tones). Maybe CS5.5 is different in this point to CS6.

     

    One thing, did you use the trial version of colorista? I'm not sure but doesn't the trial version make a red cross (or something like that) over the clips? This would of course change the RGB parade.

     
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    Apr 28, 2013 7:09 PM   in reply to Hewlet_Zar

    Actually I do see the slight jump in the RGB parade for Colorista.  I've never seen any change in the footage itself, though, so it's very minimal.

     

    I saw no change at all in the scopes using the Fast Color Corrector, RGB Color Corrector, RGB Curves or the Three way Color Corrector in CS6.

     
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    Apr 29, 2013 12:57 PM   in reply to Hewlet_Zar
    And anyone can verify this example.

    I confirm that some superwhites clipping happens on transcoding to about any 4:4:4 production codec. When I need to preserve superwhites, I transcode to OpenEXR 32-bit - that gives mathematically identical pixels' values, which results in pure black solid with no a single artifact for 'Difference' test in linearised 32-bit colour space (all my transcodings take place in After Effects so as to speed up complex compositing work, I don't transcode anything when I don't do compositing work).

     
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    Apr 29, 2013 1:05 PM   in reply to Hewlet_Zar

    You say this is something "very minimal". I say it is not so.

     

    For my footage, I've never noticed any difference using Colorista.  I didn't even realize there was an affect until I switched to scopes.  So while I agree it's a problem that needs resolving, for my projects using my footage, it hasn't been a show stopper.  That fact should NOT stop Adobe from fixing the issue.

     
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