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mrdimn
Currently Being Moderated

Images disappear when attempting to crop

Feb 6, 2012 12:42 PM

Tags: #cs5 #image #crop #disappear

Hi Folks -

 

Here's the problem for today:

 

I've got a PC with 12 GB of memory, 9 allocated to PS CS5.

A Radeon 5970 video card with 2GB on-board memory.... although CS5 might only accept 1GB.

 

I open 30 files about 200K each, which would put total usage around 6 MB total... let's say 7MB to add a little buffer.

 

I could process the  first 10-12 files.  I was just cropping each image to what I needed to do. Nothing was standard, so an action or some other automated process was not a viable option.

After each crop, I would save the image and close it out.

 

About the 13-14 image, as I was starting to crop, the image would just disappear completely so I couldn't crop the image at all.

 

All video drivers and Adobe updates are installed.

 

I could close the program and restart it, and it worked fine. But I shouldn't have to do that.

 

Does anybody know what was happening?

 

 

Thanks,


Doug

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 6, 2012 12:47 PM   in reply to mrdimn

    What do you mean by "image would just disappear"?

     

    And have you tried resetting the crop tool (to clear values you forgot about in the options bar)?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 6, 2012 1:37 PM   in reply to mrdimn

    Have you checked the width and height box to make sure they are not set to 1 pixel?

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,455 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 6, 2012 3:27 PM   in reply to mrdimn

    Funny thing...  I just saw this same thing for the first time today.

     

    Freshly started Photoshop, editing in Tabbed view, one image open, with some gray space around it.  At the start of the editing session, after converting an ISO 3200 Canon EOS-40D image through Camera Raw, I ran a few actions on it and downsized it, then suddenly any tool I would use that would normally draw over the image (e.g., crop, selection, etc. that draw a marquee) would just cause the image to disappear and the Photoshop window to be all the same gray color the surround had, while the tool was attempting to draw over the image.  Even trying to use the Ruler Tool on it would cause the image to disappear.  I saw this happen in 3 different Photoshop sessions where I had freshly started Photoshop.

     

    • What version of display drivers do you have, mrdimn?
    • What (advanced) mode is your OpenGL Drawing set to in Photoshop?
    • Do you have the Perfect Resize 7 (or any other OnOne Software plug-ins installed)?

     

    I ask because I've recently updated to ATI Catalyst 12.1 and Perfect Resize 7.0.6, as well as having changed the mode to "Normal".

     

    I'm working right now to see if I can come up with a sequence of steps that reproduces this reliably.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,455 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Feb 6, 2012 4:32 PM   in reply to mrdimn

    Well, I've been testing, doing exactly what I did before, to the very same images, and...  Nothing.  Even including runs of Perfect Resize 7.

     

    Another thing is that I was running the Pandora web site player earlier today, and I noticed from time to time it would refresh my desktop icons.  I believe they use Flash if I'm not mistaken.  Just now when testing (and unable to reproduce this problem) I was NOT running Pandora but rather Windows Media Player.

     

    I was also running a VMware virtual machine earlier that I am not running now.

     

    I'll keep an eye open for this happening again.  I suspect something had chewed up the video driver resources.  Apparently it turned them back in, as I haven't rebooted since the problem (haven't rebooted for days, actually).

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 6, 2012 4:33 PM   in reply to mrdimn

    Try disabling the onOne plugins and see if it still happens.

     

    And Noel can try rolling back his ATI drivers (which, I suspect are the most likely cause).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 6, 2012 5:54 PM   in reply to mrdimn

    Think you can put a ~ in front of file and then program will not recognize it.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,455 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Feb 7, 2012 9:32 AM   in reply to mrdimn

    FYI, I have continued working on images as I was yesterday, and since the 3 times I saw this problem I have yet to see it again.  I have not rebooted, nor have I changed drivers - only the specific things I am running in addition to Photoshop have been different.  And I think suspicion may be directed away from the OnOne software as well, as I have used it quite heavily without problems.

     

    Chris alluded to the problems possibly being in the display drivers, and I have to say I also believe that to be the case, but I wouldn't guess it's a bug so much as a resource shortage, given that it's not persistent, didn't cause a crash, and is not reliably reproducible.  I can say with certainty that yesterday, when I was seeing this problem, I had a LOT of windows open doing a bunch of different things (I am an extreme multitasker) - including a fair number of Internet Explorer 9 windows, which we know tax the GPU as well.  Further, some of those windows, such as VMware Workstation, were themselves resource hogs, in addition to Photoshop.

     

    Perhaps this sort of thing is why one might want to choose a 2 GB video card over a 1 GB (which is what mine is).

     

    I'll keep my eyes open, but all I can suggest at this point is to reduce the number of other things you're doing while working in Photoshop.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,455 posts
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    Feb 7, 2012 10:22 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    It figures...  1 MINUTE after I wrote the above I've reproduced the problem.  Not by doing anything specific, just by using Photoshop as usual.

     

    Here's a sequence showing what happens, using the Rectangular Marquee Selection Tool:

     

    Positioning mouse, mouse button not pressed:

    ScreenGrab_02_07_2012_124257.jpg

     

    Press mouse button and drag:

    ScreenGrab_02_07_2012_124259.jpg

     

    Let up mouse button:

    ScreenGrab_02_07_2012_124302.jpg

     

    With this happening and us both running Catalyst 12.1, I'd have to put my money on an unexpected new resource problem in that version of the ATI drivers.

     

    I have Photoshop in this state now and am continuing to experiment to see if I can get more info...  ALL THIS IS WITHOUT CLOSING PHOTOSHOP.  For example:

     

    • It happens with subsequently opened images.
    • It happens even if the current image is closed and another one is opened.
    • My own plug-in software that uses OpenGL comes up and runs as expected.  This tends to imply corruption inside Photoshop instead of a GPU resource shortage.
    • The problem persists if (without closing Photoshop) OpenGL is disabled and an image is opened (at which point it works okay), then OpenGL is re-enabled and an image is opened.
    • Switching an open document between windowed and tabbed view doesn't help.
    • Changing to an alternate workspace does not clear the problem.
    • The OpenGL brush resizing shortcuts (Shift - Right Click and drag) revert to non-OpenGL operation (i.e., just the outline is shown, no red overlay).
    • Animated zoom stops functioning; instead the marquee alone animates, reminiscent of non-OpenGL operation.
    • The clone tool Overlay DOES work, but it seems a bit jumpy, as though it's being rendered in GDI, not OpenGL.
    • At one point it seemed to start working again, but it was clear the image had dropped out of OpenGL altogether.  Closing and reopening it caused the reappearance of the problem, and animated zoom started working again after reopening the image.
    • The window seems to be replaced with the color from pixel(s) at the top edge.  Note this sequence, using a window that has no border showing around the image:

     

    ScreenGrab_02_07_2012_125657.jpg

     

    ScreenGrab_02_07_2012_125659.jpg

     

    ScreenGrab_02_07_2012_125700.jpg

     

    If it's at all helpful to you, Chris, Help - System Info reports this:

    http://Noel.ProDigitalSoftware.com/ForumPosts/PSCS5SystemInfo.txt

     

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,455 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Feb 7, 2012 11:00 AM   in reply to mrdimn

    Hm, it turns out I *DID* get an indication from my software about what has gone wrong.  I didn't notice it at first because it automatically fell back to doing its work an alternate way (which is what Photoshop is apparently trying to do as well)...

     

    I think this is key, and all but PROVES that the problem is in the Catalyst 12.1 drivers.  This is the problem my software detected:

     

    glCompileShader() - Fragment Shader failed to compile.

     

    It did not return a specific error string, just this:

     

    Fragment shader failed to compile with the following errors:'

     

    This says that there's something specifically wrong with the driver's shader compiler, possibly due to a resource shortage.  Not being able to compile software to run on the GPU could make all sorts of things go wrong in Photoshop.

     

    FYI, Photoshop crashed on exit after all of the above testing...

     

    StoppedWorking.jpg

     

    UnhandledException.jpg

     

    ImageRuntime.jpg

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 7, 2012 3:31 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    And it crashed in image_runtime.dll, trying to tear down shader related code.

     

     

    We already filed a handful of bugs on the 12.1 drivers.  Sounds like they may need another.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 7, 2012 4:56 PM   in reply to mrdimn

    We talk to the GPU makers pretty frequently about issues (going both directions).

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,455 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 8, 2012 9:17 AM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Just to let you know, I have dropped back to Catalyst 11.7 and have had no further issues with this.  Not much time has elapsed, and I'll report back if I see any other issues, but do I feel pretty confident now that the latest ATI drivers were responsible.

     

    Dropping back was just a matter of doing this:

     

    1.  Run the Catalyst Install Manager via the Programs and Features function, and choose Uninstall Everything.

    2.  At the end it wants to reboot, but I deferred it.

    3.  Install the Catalyst 11.7 package.

    4.  Check your PC's path - it adds stuff to the start of the system PATH specification you might not want there.

    5.  Reboot.

     

    Note that there's a tweak for all the Catalyst drivers that stops a nuisance event from being repeatedly logged in the Windows event logs.  In addition to removing the extra PATH stuff I mentioned above, I always apply this after every Catalyst installation:

     

    Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\Atierecord]
    "eRecordEnable"=dword:00000000

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 1, 2012 1:29 AM   in reply to mrdimn

    I thought I would reply to this too. I'm using Photoshop CS5 Extended on Win 7 64 bit and have the same problem.

     

    I'm running a Radeon 4850 with Catalyst 12.3 so it appears AMD have royally screwed up their OpenGL stuff.

     

    For now I've disabled GPU acceleration but it's very annoying. It doesn't happen for all images either.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Dec 23, 2006
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    Apr 1, 2012 6:31 AM   in reply to aca95pks

    I've not seen any problems with Catalyst 12.3 in more than a month of use, actually, so they've "unscrewed" at least some of it.  But there's no surety that the same code is running for every different video card, and mine's different from yours (I have a 5670).

     

    Try doing a full uninstall of the Catalyst suite and any remnants of ATI software you can find, then drop back to the 11.7 Catalyst suite from last year.  That version was widely seen as good for Photoshop.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 6, 2012 10:20 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    I've got exactly the same issue - images disappearing when I crop. It was previously working fine, all of a sudden..'poof' gone! I've not changed any settings and I don't have the technical expertise to really follow what you guys are discussing. Help!

     

    ....and a few minutes later - fixed! It was the old set to '1' in the width bar.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 18, 2012 9:33 PM   in reply to mrdimn

    Same problem, makes photoshop very frustrating to use at the moment...

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Aug 18, 2012 9:36 PM   in reply to vadoff

    Five words:

     

    Download a new display driver.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 18, 2012 10:43 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    That was the first thing I did when I noticed the problem, no dice.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,455 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Aug 19, 2012 6:01 AM   in reply to vadoff

    Assuming you've read through this thread, then, you've also checked to ensure all the Crop Tool options boxes are clear?

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 3, 2013 8:46 PM   in reply to mrdimn

    I have the same issue but I have NVIDA drivers.

     

    I have several images open and after several crops the images of anything I have open dissapear and I can't get them back unless I reboot Photoshop.

     

    I have Windows XP and CS5

     

    Any word from Tech support how to fix this?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 3, 2013 8:47 PM   in reply to Fabio7371

    See post number 22.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 3, 2013 11:44 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Not really a very useful answer for supprt staff when others have said this doesn't help.

     

    I still cannot turn on full acceleration and I now have a Radeon 7850 with the latest drivers.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 4, 2013 11:05 AM   in reply to aca95pks

    AMD's 12.10 and 12.11 beta drivers have some regressions.

    You probably want to use the 12.8 drivers (last stable version).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 4, 2013 12:40 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Chris, thank you for your assistance. It reminded me to get the lastest drivers from NVIDIA and I have now installed them.

     

    If this makes a difference I will report back.  I am not sure how to "simulate" or recreate the failure, but it happened fairly often.

     

    I will report back.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 4, 2013 1:15 PM   in reply to Fabio7371

    And, of course, make sure you have the latest Photoshop updates installed.

     
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