Skip navigation
MixDub Media
Currently Being Moderated

Dual monitors, ICC profiles, color management...problems

Feb 9, 2012 2:55 PM

Tags: #photoshop #profile #displays #cs5.5_design_premium_edition #color_issues

Okay, I am reposting this here on the combined forum. This was pulled from the Mac forum (http://forums.adobe.com/message/3525659), however I am having the exact same problem on a PC running CS5.

 

When I "let go" of the "work area" window on the LCD monitor it rather visibly changes the color tonality (so much so that white turns yellow). When I release the image, why is Photoshop altering the color space - when other programs display evenly across the monitors? Am I to assume that releasing the image triggers the second monitors profile? Maybe I simply need to use the same profile for both monitors (which would be strange because this was a problem before I assigned any, and is still a problem after running calibration)? I will experiment more tonight, but any help is greatly appreaciated.

 

I've been using Photoshop for years and never encountered this before, however this is the first time I've added a LCD monitor into the mix, as my old Viewsonic finally died. I will be replacing the other monitor with a LCD in the near future, it will be interesting to see if the problem magically resolves (assuming I can't figure it out in the meantime)

 

P.S. - as to the forum merger - why? It would have made more sense to simply be able to flag a post as pertaining to both operating systems, and thereby have it appear in both threads. That way you're not burdening everyone with threads that do not apply, and you're not losing all of the old threads (which are now read-only for some reason).

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 9, 2012 3:01 PM   in reply to MixDub Media

    Yes, releasing the window allows Photoshop to update the profile for the window framebuffer, and redraw the image.  While you are dragging, there is no chance to redraw.

    It's just that you're dragging between 2 displays with different profiles -- the type of monitor doesn't matter.

    The only time you should have a problem is while dragging and the image is corrected for one display while being shown on the other.

    After you let go, the new display profile takes effect and it should look correct on the second display (if not, then the second display profile is wrong).

     

    Don't use the same profile for both displays -- that would be a mistake except in rare (laboratory) conditions.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,534 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 9, 2012 3:07 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Note:  While dragging windows Photoshop appears to use the primary display profile regardless.  This is true even if the image is on a secondary display and you drag it to another place on that same display.

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,534 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 9, 2012 3:19 PM   in reply to MixDub Media

    Ugh, Acer profiles have been known to cause problems.  Acer profiles being delivered by Windows Update were responsible for me having to update my whole plug-in product line.

     

    Click Start, type color management into the search box, and click Color Management when it comes up.  In the Devices tab, select your second monitor.  Does it show any profile there set as default?

     

    Windows "calibration" is tricky...  It sets up something that causes gamma et. al. settings to be loaded into the video card, but it still seems to maintain a connection to your original monitor profile.

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 9, 2012 11:24 PM   in reply to MixDub Media

    MixDub Media wrote:

     

    it does give me an error message saying the profile for the second monitor ... is damaged

    In that case the profile really is broken and you shouldn't use it. That message means what it says. If you click "don't use" it ill be kicked out and replaced with sRGB.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 9, 2012 11:24 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel Carboni wrote:


    Windows "calibration" is tricky...  It sets up something that causes gamma et. al. settings to be loaded into the video card, but it still seems to maintain a connection to your original monitor profile.

    That sounds almost as if it's just making a new video LUT, but leaving the rest of the profile as is? Does it get a new name?

     

    Technically they're in the clear by doing this, since that's precisely what calibration is. They're just skipping the profiling part.

     

    I have never used Windows calibration, and don't intend to, so I'm not going to test this.

     

    Note:  While dragging windows Photoshop appears to use the primary display profile regardless.  This is true even if the image is on a secondary display and you drag it to another place on that same display.

    This is something I've noticed as well. I had it down to OpenGL being disabled during the drag, because it also seems to disable OpenGL smoothing (rendering the image with the "old" jagged look).

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,534 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 10, 2012 6:43 AM   in reply to twenty_one

    D Fosse wrote:

    That sounds almost as if it's just making a new video LUT, but leaving the rest of the profile as is? Does it get a new name?

     

     

    It's been a while since I fooled with it (hence my somewhat vague terms above), so I'll have to look again...  I do know that the configuration for whether to enable it is in a separate place from the profiles themselves.

     

    Okay, I just refreshed my memory...

     

    1.  You use Windows Calibration from the Advanced tab of Color Management.

     

    • They do create a separate .icc profile, called CalibratedDisplayProfile-x.icc where x varies. 
    • They make this the default in the Devices tab.

     

    2.  I think the problem I mentioned before happened when someone or some program came along and set a new default profile, without using the Devices tab.  In this case I think I remember Windows continued to use its CalibratedDisplayProfile-x.icc to set up the video card gamma at some specific point in the bootup, but then proceeded to tell apps that the profile subsequently set is the one to use for transforms.  To be honest I don't remember specifically how to reproduce it.  It's been a couple of years.

     

    I haven't been able to reproduce this just now using the Windows dialogs, so I suspect the combination I saw might have been mitigated by an automatic install of a monitor profile after the fact (e.g., via Windows Update).  Or maybe they tidied something up in SP1.  What I remember from back then is that the user had to manually go into the Advanced section of Color Management, click the [Change System Defaults] button, and remove the X from the "Use Windows Calibration" setting.  Then everything came from the profile set in the Devices tab.

     

    The funky part is that Change System Defaults section.  I was never quite sure how that fit into the scheme of profile management, and always figured it must have something to do with per-user vs. per-system settings.  One day I'll experiment further...

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 10, 2012 2:06 PM   in reply to MixDub Media

    MixDub Media wrote:

     

    ...I got the monitor looking much better by experimenting with a variety of profiles from within Photoshop (...)but I THINK it was on either sRGB or ProPhoto (or something like that)...

    I'm sorry, but there's no nice way to put it: this is so seriously messed up that I don't even know which end to hold on to.

     

    I wish you a very happy honeymoon, enjoy it. When you get back, make it easy for yourself: Set sRGB as your working space and use that for all images. The more you "experiment" with profiles the more messed up this gets.

     

    To keep you out of trouble, and you'll thank me for this later, also set sRGB as your monitor profile. Yes, that's sRGB in both places. If you see a color cast with this, correct it with Windows calibration or the video card controls.

     

    When you print, let the printer driver deal with it.

     

    When you're ready to do this properly, come back and we'll talk.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 3, 2012 4:39 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    I've done some experimenting tonight regarding this on Windows 7 and I am now quite sure of the following:

     

    When dragging in PS, the "main display" monitor profile is used and as soon as the image is released, the correct monitor profile takes over. The monitors should each be calibrated for their own characteristics. What is key, however, is that other Adobe products and features don't work the same way! Acrobat and Bridge, as well as the RAW processing screen of PS all use the main display profile -- no matter which monitor they are on! I've been fighting this for months -- adjusting the RAW image and then it's totally different when opened in basic PS -- where I redo the adjustments. I finally solved my problem by making my 2nd (good, large) monitor the main display and moving the icons over to my laptop screen. Yay, WYSIWIG!

     

    Interesting also was that Windows Photo Viewer works correctly. I had a weird test profile on the laptop and when the image straddles the two monitors it's clear that the two different profiles are used. There are some test profiles available from ICC that really help diagnosing color management issues.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 3, 2012 7:54 PM   in reply to justin_caise

    If you're working in an environment that requires color accuracy, you would be better off having two monitors of the same make and brand. There are always going to be differences between monitors. If you're working on a laptop with a secondary monitor, then you should consider the secondary minotor to be the one that needs correct color, as no laptop screen is going to be very good. Even if the color is OK on a laptop LCD screen, the viewing angle is going to be very limited.

     

    As far as working on images goes, having them be different while draging a window around shouldn't be an issue. What's more of an issue is trying to do professional color management on a laptop screen, especially in Windows.

     

    Windows, by the way, has been fraught with LUT bugs for years. I'm not sure which ones have been fixed or not, but it was precisely LUT bugs that led me to swtich to Mac for my main editing machines. Windows color management is on an application by application basis, not across the whole OS. Some will use it, some won't. But that's a nitty-gritty discussion that probably won't help us here.

     

    If you don't already have one, then you should get a spyder or other monitor calibration device and use it regularly. I can't tell from the thread if you're calibrating the monitor, which is why I mention it. But from what I read it doesn't look like it. You simply can't expect a canned monitor profile to work for you.

     

    In terms of which working profiles to use, I would use sRGB or Adobe RGB 1998. I would completely avoid Pro Photo, especially given your monitor setup. Prophoto is going to have a much wider gamut that your laptop, and far more than your printer, so you're asking for trouble there IMHO.

     

    Set your working profile to Adobe RGB 1998

    Get a monitor profiler and profile your monitor and your laptop

    Lastly, if color is really important to you, get a better monitor. What you have is a very cheap monitor that can't be expected to show off the power of photoshop and a nice digital camera.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 4, 2012 7:30 AM   in reply to bellevue scott

    I believe Justin's solution is the best one for him. Calibrate the key monitor for accurate color and put palettes and tools on the other one. Windows control of color management sucks, so I don't go there.

     

    I have a Dell u2412 as my reference monitor and an older Dell Office type 17" for the palettes. It's obvious when I am on the Desktop (they both show the same thing) that the 17" doesn't match. Not  a problem. If I could calibrate the 17" I would, but I get to use one profile for both. Yes, two 2412's would help but my physical space can't handle 2 24" monitors, nor do I have a need for two wide ones.

     

    To each his own, and this is mine.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,534 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 4, 2012 7:49 AM   in reply to justin_caise

    Something to keep in mind:  Photoshop's behavior with regard to how images are managed across multiple monitors changes depending on which advanced GPU Mode you have selected.  Basic works one way, Normal and Advanced another way.  This is because Photoshop does color-management differently (CPU vs. GPU) depending on that mode.

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 4, 2012 9:15 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel Carboni wrote:

     

    Something to keep in mind:  Photoshop's behavior with regard to how images are managed across multiple monitors changes depending on which advanced GPU Mode you have selected.  Basic works one way, Normal and Advanced another way.  This is because Photoshop does color-management differently (CPU vs. GPU) depending on that mode.

     

    -Noel

    That's a new one on me, and counterintuitive. As I read the Tool Tips for the various configuration, it appears that the processing chores are distributed differently depending on mode choice. Now if the color balance between monitors also changes, we have a possibility of instant insanity!

     

    Explain in greater detail, Noel?

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,534 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 4, 2012 9:43 AM   in reply to Hudechrome

    With Normal and Advanced modes, the transforms are executed in the GPU, and from what I've seen it's possible to see parts of an image that spans multiple monitors managed independently when that's happening.

     

    I don't think this happens when dragging, just when dropped, but don't quote me on that.

     

    With Basic mode (or GPU disabled) the color-management is done in the CPU and it only does the entire image per whatever color profile describes the monitor most of the image is on.  Again, don't quote me on that, this is from memory.

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 4, 2012 11:30 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    I don't have my setup configured for a span, so I can't verify that. I suppose I could reset that function and see.

     

    Since it is highly unlikely that multiple monitors have the precise CLUT, Windows is choosing which one rules under specific choices of the Preference set in Photoshop. In that case, having a standard like sRGB as the monitor setting would be the prudent thing to do. I'd hate to think that a pair of CLUTs were subject to something akin to a crapshoot in making the choice! Inherent differences between each monitor would have to be ruled out by a strict adherence to the standard. We usually pay big bucks (see Eizo!) for such matching out of the box.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,534 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 4, 2012 11:38 AM   in reply to Hudechrome

    I don't get where there's a "crap shoot" there.

     

    To experiment yourself you don't have to change config, just float a document in a window and drag the window across two monitors.

     

    Forcing a weirdo profile for one monitor is a great way to see the difference.  You might have to hide the panels on the secondary monitor(Tab does this). Example...

     

    TwoProfiles.jpg

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 4, 2012 11:48 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    I'll see a difference because my 17" monitor for Palettes cannot be calibrated, and is already different. The one that governs the display runs both. What I am getting at is if both do have their individual calibrations, and the Pref settings make a difference then as one drags the image the differences would change along with the Pref setting.

     

    That's the crapshoot to which I am referring. Maybe a bit over the top but you get the gist.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,534 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 4, 2012 12:32 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    I think we've already established that while dragging a window proper and complete color-management is not being performed.  Even with the egregious profile differences I showed above I could still tell what parts of the image were where. 

     

    That's nitpicking to the extreme, as with the Normal and Advanced GPU modes the color-management IS being performed during normal editing operations.

     

    How important is it that the window be perfect while dragging? Less important, I'd wager, than just about any of the other known Photoshop bugs.  I don't even think it's all THAT important that an image spanned across multiple monitors be properly color-managed, but I suppose one can always think of an exception.  There's a much more complex set of work that has to occur under the covers to accomplish that, and spending all the time and complexity on that may not get the best ROI.

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 4, 2012 12:38 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Agreed!

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,534 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 4, 2012 12:45 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    One thing:  I didn't mean to imply Adobe has not made the effort to make it work properly spanned across multiple monitors (clearly, as I showed with the example above, they have).  I was thinking more of other application designers.

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 5, 2012 1:43 PM   in reply to MixDub Media

    Always a good idea.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2012 12:57 AM   in reply to Lundberg02

    I think it's important to note which Windows OS you are using when commenting here, because there are major differences in color management in them. My post was a Win 7 system and if you still use XP, color management may be different or non-existent. I leave a wierd profile set on my notebook display and have a secondary, calibrated monitor for color corrections -- set as my main display. It makes it easy to see when I'm getting CM or not, in most cases. Some things, like the icon view, obviously bypass CM and are dRGB because they display normally on my notebook. Don't know what is referred to in basic vs. advanced mode, but Photoshop shows two profile CM when a picture overlaps both screens, as does Windows Photo Viewer. When I had the notebook as main display, dragging an image reverted to the wierd NB profile -- not dRGB. This means it does not turn off CM, but goes back to a default of "main display". Other programs use only main display, regardless of where they are. I thought it had to do with where the active window was when the program opened, but it seems "main display" is the profile of choice for Bridge, Acrobat and RAW which are my main concerns. I've been preaching to my colleagues to profile their best monitor and set it as MD, distribute icons wherever they want and ignore colors on the other monitor. As I wrote, I leave it with the wierd profile to see what's happening, but someday I will go back to a correct one when I totally understand which software does, or doesn't, do proper CM.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2012 5:39 AM   in reply to justin_caise

    I have two systems running, one built around 2004 running XP and using a 19" LaCie crt, the other a more recent system running Win 7 64 with a Dell u2412. With the caveat that the dell only handles sRGB well and the LaCIe Adobe RGB both are calibrated with the same puck (i1) and software, and both show good correlation to each other, but the Dell comes closest to my Epson 3800 output. Very close.

     

    However, I also have a second monitor on the Win 7 system that cannot be calibrated and so it definitely misses color accuracy. I don't care as I only use it as a palette display. Even at that, the grey values of the palettes and the gray values of the main screen background match quite well.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2012 6:43 AM   in reply to Hudechrome

    How can it be that

    Hudechrome wrote:

     

    However, I also have a second monitor on the Win 7 system that cannot be calibrated and so it definitely misses ...

     

    ? If you have an i1 and the Gretag software (available for download and runs without a dongle), you must be able to make a profile for the monitor. Win 7 will let you set up separate default profiles for each monitor and your graphic card must support two monitors, so where's the problem?

     

    A monitor display is an output device with its own unique RGB characteristics, which is why you make a profile. Your input images are RGB that is supposedly some standard -- sRGB, Adobe, etc. (although you could/should profile your camera or scanner) and your color management transforms the RGB color numbers to theoretically give a display that matches the original, by way of the PCS (usually the Lab color space). When you write that the Dell "only handles sRGB well", it implies you are not getting color management - if you are passing sRGB images to the graphics card uncorrected. This is a function of the software setup and under Win 7 you should be able to get CM.

     

    If you are happy with your printed results and how they match your display and you get repeatable results, great, case closed.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2012 7:14 AM   in reply to justin_caise

    No, it's the Dell standard for that monitor. It only runs Adobe RGB at 82% or so, therefore I do not trust it for anything other than sRGB. I do set Color Space in Photoshop at Adobe RGB to avoid clipping colors which at some future date, when I have mucho bucks to spend, I'll change to Eizo. I would hate to have to go back to RAW and reset all my color space for each.

     

    I have been calibrating first with spyder now with i1/McBeth for years now. I am not in the business of serious color matching across the board. I only wish to see that the printer and monitor agree and that sRGB being the closest internet standard, be correct. It matters not that the camera is calibrated because I manipulate color as a painter might, when I do color, that is! Mostly b&w.

     

    I don't know why I cannot cal the second monitor. I won't respond correctly and whatever profile is set in Color management, both monitors see the same profile. I leave it at that because it is only information which is not color critical to the eye. Some day when I have nothing better to do I might go back and figure it out but for now I have other windmills....!

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,534 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2012 9:06 AM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Lawrence, you have a specific problem if you cannot set a calibration and profile separately for each monitor.  The facilities for doing so are supported by the OS, display drivers, and Radeon HD cards.

     

    I can set a separate calibration and profile for each of my two monitors.  Even though I have identical monitors each requires a slightly different calibration due to their having been manufactured in different months.  And I can set different profiles as the default for each - I often do so during testing, to verify operation of my own color-managed software.

     

    I would suspect that the integration of your measurement profiling software package simply isn't setting things up properly in your particular system environment.  As I have no experience with the hardware and software you're using for that I'm afraid I can't offer much in the way of specific guidance, but if you'll describe carefully and completely exactly what DOES happen when you try to measure and profile your second monitor maybe we can discover the disconnect.  Or maybe we can determine a process post-calibration that you can apply to overcome those limitations.

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2012 9:30 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Correct, Noel. It is a software problem with McBeth. The package was created for XP, and MCBeth never updated thepackage for Win7 (like Epson didn't do for my scanner!). Fortunately, the McBeth package does run on Win 7 anyway, but not with the full capabilities offered with Win 7. For instance, I have to pin the Calibration Loader to the Tray because sometimes Windows does not pick it up until I click it.

     

    I believe, IIRC, that XP was difficult to set up for multiple monitors with calibration, so it isn't part of the McBeth software. I remember trying to do so earlier this year and running into that roadblock. I can get a new software package but at an OMG price! I actually could do better spending a few extra dollars on an Eizo and using my puck with their software.

     

    At any rate, the second monitor is an old Dell E173P, designed for office work where even the buttons provided do an awful job. But it was free and as I point out, it is only for the palettes.

     

    At any rate, I am not going to spend any money on a software update for this puck as it is fine on the u2412, validating that it is a true sRGB monitor. The difference between cal and default can go unnoticed, that is until you do a print. Then the pastels go to hell!

     

    Message was edited by: Hudechrome

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,534 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2012 1:01 PM   in reply to MixDub Media

    Not sure whether you felt you had your original question answered, MixDub, but you can expect the image to be color-managed during a document window drag operation per the monitor profile of your primary monitor.  When you drop it the color-management kicks in for the monitor(s) on which it resides. 

     

    I believe as well (from observation myself) that the GDI method of displaying the image (i.e., without GPU acceleration) is used during a drag operation, instead of OpenGL, no matter whether you're configured to use GPU enhancements.  Again, the configured method takes over when you drop the image.

     

    That's just the way Photoshop works.

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2012 2:36 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    justin _caise: what on earth is dRGB/

    Hudechrome: Surely you didn't mean to say that a 19" LaCie can display Adobe RGB?

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,534 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2012 3:19 PM   in reply to Lundberg02

    Lundberg02 wrote:

     

    what on earth is dRGB/

     

    Lundberg, I read it as a typo of sRGB.  Not that anyone ever misses a key when typing... 

     

    Though on reflection he did type it twice, so the question (assuming that's what you meant by / ) does have merit.

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2012 5:16 PM   in reply to Lundberg02

    So far as I remeber, yes Adobe RGB. Today, not so much. Nor do I recall what the percentages were. It's old but the averages are still pretty good. Better than the old Dell flat screen that is my side panel.

     

    Crt's have a look of their own.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2012 9:49 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    No way, Jose .

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 17, 2012 6:18 AM   in reply to Lundberg02

    Way, and I'm not Jose.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 19, 2012 4:40 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    no, wasn't a typo. dRGB means device RGB, just as dCMYK is used for device CMYK. It means the numbers in either RGB or CMYK should not be modified using an output profile -- display them as given.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,534 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 19, 2012 5:11 PM   in reply to justin_caise

    Thanks for clarifying that.  I thought you might have meant "device", but those brain cells fired after I posted.

     

    With discussions of color-management one cannot be too explicit.  It's confusing enough even when all the terms are spelled out. 

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2013 8:09 AM   in reply to twenty_one

    Hey this solution actually worked for me! Finally! I have been having fits for over two years now with this issue of dropping an image onto my second monitor and the colors changing. It doesn't happen for me in Illustrator or any other Adobe program but Photoshop. But I followed twenty_one's advice and switched the second monitor's color profile to sRGB IEC61966-2.1 (same as my primary monitor) and bingo! The images within Photoshop look the same as I drag them from screen to screen. Thanks!

     
    |
    Mark as:

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...

Bookmarked By (0)

Answers + Points = Status

  • 10 points awarded for Correct Answers
  • 5 points awarded for Helpful Answers
  • 10,000+ points
  • 1,001-10,000 points
  • 501-1,000 points
  • 5-500 points