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Isopoda
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LR4: tone curve settings lost after upgrade

Mar 6, 2012 6:32 AM

I've find an annoying bug in this new version that makes me really crazy.

I've a Nikon D300S and a D7000.

After the importation of the catalog in the new Lightroom 4 all the D7000 .dng files have lost all the tone curve settings (I normally use linear).

The D300S files instead retain the tone curve settings.

It's a very strange behaviour: I've lost more than half of my old photo settings.

It's really frustrating.

Will be resolve soon this problem?

Until that day, for my older works I'll be obliged to continue to use LR3.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 6, 2012 10:42 AM   in reply to Isopoda

    I second that!

     

    Just installed LR4 and converted my catalog. Then I read an article in Chris Marquardt's blog where he stated that LR4 ate all his curves for breakfast.

    I immediately checked my installation and indeed it did the same with mine. 

     

    Read it here: http://chrismarquardt.com/blog.php?id=1620266956854377999

     

    All my tone curves are completely off although I did not even convert a single image to the new processing engine.

    I can't believe no one really noticed that before. At least you can't read about it a lot.

     

    Please fix this bug ASAP!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 6, 2012 10:58 AM   in reply to Isopoda

    The same happend to my files. That's a really bad bug.

     

     

    You can also vote for it on photoshop.com: http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lr4_deleted_all_ my_tone_curve_adjustments

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 6, 2012 1:17 PM   in reply to Isopoda

    Yikes!  This makes LR4 a complete and total non-starter.  Dead in the water until this is fixed really.

     

    I'd also point out this is exactly why catalog imports belong as part of the beta program.  Kind of short sighted to unleash something this catostrophically bad on your users without having subjected it to beta testing...

     

    Ken

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 6, 2012 2:31 PM   in reply to Isopoda

    It is not clear to me that this is a bug, but I recognize that it could be.  I did an experiment.  I first looked at a dng file in LR 3.  I then imported it into LR 4.  Following import, the interface displayed for that photo in develop mode is the same in LR3 and LR4.  The settings are the same, too.  I then upgraded the photo for LR 4.  That's when the interface with the replacements for Fill Light and Recovery changes.  I noticed that my Tone Curve was the same, but that the  setting had been changed from medium contrast to linear.  That is what appears to be troubling people.  I also noticed that the setting for blacks and exposure had been changed.  The two photos, however, were pretty much identical.  If you stare at something long enough, you may perceive differences, but the photos were pretty much the same.  I wonder whether in the conversion to the new system, Adobe had to map the old processor settings onto the new ones when converting over.  In fact, I assume that something like that happens, although I certainly am no expert.  To me it makes sense, because we have different control names and the new processing capabilities indicates that the controls behave slightly differently than the old ones.

     

    If that is the case, it would have been nice if Adobe would have explained this fact.  To avoid flames, I don't doubt that everyone is having the reported issues and seeing the difference that they see, but I offer this hypothesis.  In any event, people who upgrade would be wise to retain backedup copies of their LR 3 catalogues.

     

    Jack Siegel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 6, 2012 5:33 PM   in reply to Isopoda

    I'm seeing the same problem. All my other settings - saturation, sharpening, white balance, etc., migrated to Lightroom 4 correctly (still in the 2010 process), but not the Tone Curve. The Tone Curve resets to the default for the camera (Canon 1Ds Mark II or 5D Mark II). As KWalsh said, this is a non-starter - I can't use Lightroom 4 until this is fixed. I make almost all my global tonal adjustments with the point curve, and don't want to re-create the curve for thousands of images.

     

    For what it's worth, if anyone from Adobe reads this, I'm using a latest-version MacBook Pro with 8 gigs ram, OS 10.7.3.

     

    Jack_Siegel, you're not seeing the same problem the rest of us are. Your version of Lightroom 4 is behaving correctly - either that, or you've never changed the tone curve in your photos from the default, so when Lightroom 4 loses that curve you don't see a change. What you're describing is simply the change in interface when you change from the 2010 process to the 2012 process. But we're seeing a change in the image's appearance and setting in the tone curve panel while it's still in the 2010 process. Damned annoying.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 6, 2012 5:43 PM   in reply to Isopoda

    I'm looking for a place to report this bug to Adobe, without much success - anyone know a link?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 6, 2012 5:47 PM   in reply to Check-raise Charley

    Check-raise Charley wrote:

     

    I'm looking for a place to report this bug to Adobe, without much success - anyone know a link?

    Don't bother, they know about it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 6, 2012 5:47 PM   in reply to Check-raise Charley
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 6, 2012 6:07 PM   in reply to Isopoda

    I believe this is a real problem I did some testing to verify that LR4 does, in fact, destroy tone curve (and who knows what else) adjustments. I posted a thread on Fred Miranda that shows what I did. http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1092153/0#lastmessage

     

    David

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 7, 2012 3:46 AM   in reply to david m kirsch

    I may have found a workaround

     

    http://forums.adobe.com/thread/972024

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 7, 2012 6:13 AM   in reply to Check-raise Charley

    I am not sure I understand your point. There are several ways to adjust the tone curve.  I do it by using the four numerical adjustment sliders below the curve.  I also on more than a few occassions change the Point Curve from linear to medium contrast.  I do not use the four sliders on the curve itself to remap the regions by sliding them to either increase the regions or contract them.  I also do not place individual points on the curve, with the result that I would get a broken curve with points running along it.

     

    In my post, I was simply stating that I don't see the behvaior (changes in settings) until I update the file (as distinguished from importing it).  It is the update, not the import that causes the problem. The behavior I am seeing is that the numerical curve settings are unchanged, but the setting for point curve shifts from medium to linear.  I also noticed that several of the core settings (Blacks and Expsosure) changed slightly.  For information purposes, my camera outputs native dng RAW files rather than proprietary-camera company RAW files like the Canon CR files.

     

    Is everybody else doing something to the tone curve that I am unaware of--like an adjustment to it through a preferences setting?

     

    Thanks

     

    Jack Siegel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 7, 2012 6:33 AM   in reply to Jack_Siegel

    Hi Jack,

     

    In my case it is exactly what you are not doing - putting individual points on the curve

     

    The simplest non working preset reverses the tone curve from its standard / shape to \ shape.

     

    This worked fine in LR3.6, but not at all in 4.0 unless another preset was selected before it...

     

    I looked at the preset and found one line about process version was missing (detail on other thread I reference before)

     

    Adding this made it work ok.

     

    I dont know, but maybe the fact switching from one working to another no-working makes it work, and also some LR3 presets already have the process version is why this wasn't picked up before???

     

    But it is definitely a bug!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 7, 2012 6:53 AM   in reply to Jack_Siegel

    Sorry Jack, but no, you actually do not understand our point.
    And apparently you didn't really read our postings either.

     

    Let me spell it out again:
    No matter what we did to the curves in LR3 they are lost in LR4

     

    And to make this very clear again:

    The tone curves are lost WITHOUT changing the process version!

     

    Hence there is nothing we can do to keep LR3 pictures with altered curves without reediting them again. This is obviously not acceptable.

     


    If you still don't understand the point, please READ the article I linked in my first post:
    http://chrismarquardt.com/blog.php?id=1620266956854377999

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 7, 2012 6:41 AM   in reply to Isopoda

    Wow! All my tone curve adjustments are gone! 3 Catalogs and over 30,000 photos. What a terrible miss by Adobe. Spent the rest of the evening restoring to LR 3.6. Have little choice but to patiently wait for a correction but my faith in Adobe has been heavily tainted.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 7, 2012 6:54 AM   in reply to GentleLighting

    Actually, I did read your earlier posts and yesterday I read the blog post, so I do read things.  I apparently didn't understand your point, because there are multiple ways to adjust the tone curve, which is why I explained what I was doing.  In the future, please don't lecture me.  I am not denying that you and others face a problem.  I am trying to understand it.

     

    Best regards

     

    Jack Siegel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 7, 2012 7:28 AM   in reply to GentleLighting

    If Adobe had made it possible to import a LR3 catalog in to the LR4 Beta, this bug would have been killed in time ...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 8, 2012 1:58 AM   in reply to Buggerman2012

    I've probably found a sort of workaround!

    I've made some "organized" tests and here I report my findings.

    Using LR3.5, I prepared a "test catalog" using 4 images from 7 different cameras (28 images total): for each of them, I used both the original nef and the dng converted file (56 files in the catalog), all develop process was set to "2010".

    The cameras were Nikon D70, D90, D200, D300s, D700, D5000, D7000.

    I applied a strong tone curve to each image in a way that the appearance was heavily characterized.

    Before exit LR3.5, I SAVED ALL THE METADATA TO THE FILES.

    Opening and converting the catalog using LR4, doesn't show any visual change until I zoom in library or open the develop module: both these operation lead to a flat image with the strong tone curve lost.

    Curiously, the history retains the original steps but they are ineffective: histogram and tone curve changes according to the visual change but for some camera the "new" tone curve is "medium contrast", for others (D5000, D90) is "linear", for D300s is "custom" (linear with blacks cut at 9.8%, and this explain my initial impression that D300s's curves were untouched, sorry). This last behavior may depend on the fact that I've different default develop settings depending on the camera serial number.

    Finally, the update to the 2012 process only minimally changes the visual appearance and surely doesn't restore the lost tone curves.

    And here is the UNEXPECTED WORKAROUND: doing a READ METADATA FROM FILES IT RESTORES THE TONE CURVES (and the 2010 process)! Upgrading the process to 2012 minimally changes the visual appearance again but now the strong tone curve is present and evident.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 8, 2012 3:39 AM   in reply to mauro morando

    Please note that the above workaround restores the original tone curves but the history steps remain wrong (without a real effect) and you loose the ability to go back in the develop process step by step. Obviously you can reset the setting and restart with the default ones.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 8, 2012 9:07 AM   in reply to Isopoda

    I have not seen any loss of tone curve settings of Sony NEX raw files. (With and without changing to process version 2012.)

     

    Problem might be dependant on specific, unknown parameters.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 8, 2012 12:16 PM   in reply to mauro morando

    Mauro, thanks for that workaround. It worked for me, except that it doesn't restore the curves on virtual copies, only on the original raw file. Perhaps the info for the virtual copies is only stored in the catalog database, and not in the .xmp file? So this solution mostly works for me, but I do have quite a few virtual copies that I'd hate to lose the curves for. You're right that it does make your history invalid. The history still looks intact, but if you go back to a previous history state the curve is gone.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 8, 2012 1:09 PM   in reply to Isopoda

    I think there are three possible reasons why some people are experiencing this problem and some are not:

     

    1. Different hardware configurations.

     

    2. Whether someone updates their previous Lightroom 3 catalog for Lightroom 4, or whether they create a new catalog and just import the images into it. If it's the latter, then Lightroom 4 will just read the metadata from the files it's importing, and the curves will be intact (as Mauro pointed out with his workaround). The drawbacks to this method are the same as in the workaround - you won't import your virtual copies, and you'll lose your history for the images. You'll also lose your Collections.

     

    3. If someone has never changed the point curve from it's default in Lightroom 3, then they won't notice a change in Lightroom 4. The bug resets the point curve to its default. If you've modified the point curve, then you'll lose that modification in Lightroom 4, so you'll notice a change. If you haven't modified the point curve then even if the bug is present you won't notice a change because the curve will still be at its default.

     

    So if anyone HAS modified a point curve (not parametric curve) in Lightroom 3, UPGRADED their catalog from Lightroom 3 to Lightroom 4 (did not create a new catalog and just import the images into it), and is NOT seeing this problem - i.e. the point curve is intact when they look at the image in the Develop module of Lightroom - then the bug is present on some systems and not others, and is probably related to a hardware configuration. So let us know if that description fits you.

     

    Michael Frye

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 8, 2012 1:28 PM   in reply to Check-raise Charley

    Thanks Michael, you perfectly summarized my findings and I completely agree with yours.

    Mauro

     
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    Mar 8, 2012 3:55 PM   in reply to Check-raise Charley

    Michael

     

    All information relating to virtual copies is stored in the database and it is never written to xmp sidecar files or into writable files such as DNG or TIFF.

     

    I agree that the tone cuve bug is a major problem and am waiting for Adobe to fix it before moving to LR4 - fortunately Eric Chan and the Adobe team recognise that it needs fixing.

     

    Nigel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 9, 2012 12:31 AM   in reply to Check-raise Charley

    Michael, just to better understand "the beast" I suggest the following (unpractical) workaround for the virtual images.

    You can add a "buffer" image (a real one!) to both the LR3 and LR4 catalogs then, with both Lightroom opened:

    1. in LR3, copy and past develop settings from a virtual image to the buffer (real) one, then "write xmp data to file";

    2. In LR4, "read metadata from file" for the real image, copy develop settings from it and paste them to the virtual image.

    Good luck if the number of your v.i. is more then 10… ;-)

     

    Mauro Morando

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 10, 2012 11:48 AM   in reply to mauro morando

    Thanks for the suggestion Mauro. I have lots of virtual copies, so this is a bit impractical. I'm going to continue to use Lightroom 3 as my primary tool, and use Lightroom 4 just for testing, until Adobe fixes the issue.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 10, 2012 11:49 AM   in reply to Isopoda

    Speaking of which...

     

    Any ADOBE people reading this: When are we going to get a fix?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 10, 2012 12:20 PM   in reply to Check-raise Charley

    Hi Michael,

     

    So far I had the impression to be one of those lucky guys. Until I truly checked with an image, which I have converted to black and white and applied a solarization effect by dragging the point tone curve into a sinus-shape.

    Same as described here: I selected that image in develop module, preview & sinus-tone curve started out correct, then it took LR4 a while to load - BANG: sinus is gone and image looks a dead bore. Still in PV2010.

    And of course this is just a virtual copy, as I like to view my different versions side-by-side in grid view, which hardly ever made me create snapshots.

     

    Not sure if my learning could be: just don't select your existing images in Develop module.

    I will test with other solarized ones what happens if I just try to print them, or export them, without ever having in in LR4-develop.

     

    Cornelia

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 10, 2012 12:28 PM   in reply to Check-raise Charley

    Check-raise Charley wrote:

     

    Speaking of which...

     

    Any ADOBE people reading this: When are we going to get a fix?

     

    They're on it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 10, 2012 12:30 PM   in reply to Cornelia-I

    Nope, tough luck:

     

    I did an export to full-sized JPGs, and they are broken (reset to tone curve), print as well. All this while the thumbnail in grid view still nicely displays my solarization effect.

     

    Mega-awkward for Adobe: this should not have happened... ! Very unprofessional!

     

    Hamish Niven,

    you may turn out lucky - don't hand your LR3-heritage to LR4 yet !

     

    Cornelia

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 10, 2012 12:58 PM   in reply to mauro morando

    Hi Mauro,

    mauro morando wrote:

     

    .... with both Lightroom opened:...

    How do you achieve to have both LR-versions opened at the same time?

     

    I do not manage that. Both versions use the same presets for me, so I assume there is a conflict preventing the second version to open when the first is open (no matter which one I open first).

     

    Thanks for you help,

    Cornelia

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 10, 2012 1:37 PM   in reply to Cornelia-I

    Hi Cornelia,

    yes, I can have both opened at the same time. I always use the option "save presets with catalog" so both has a personal copy, nethertheless I'm not sure that a interlock mechanism exists. Surely you cannot open the same catalog with two LR3 (or LR4) on two different computers (shared disk).

    Mauro

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 10, 2012 1:55 PM   in reply to mauro morando

    Hi Mauro,

     

    I guessed as much, that "storing presets with catalog" would be a prerequisite to have both LR versions open at the same time.

     

    I was not trying to access the same catalog file, which probably would be impossible anyhow, as LR4 only opens after conversion and LR3 could hardly be capable of reading an LR4 catalog.

     

    So I guess I can choose if I just wait until Adobe finally may come up with some solution, or if I separate LR4's presets and copy the relevant stuff over in OS.

    Which could be good house-keeping anyhow, as many of the LR3-presets are no longer usable.

     

    Cornelia

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 10, 2012 2:55 PM   in reply to Cornelia-I

    Cornelia-I wrote:

     

    How do you achieve to have both LR-versions opened at the same time?

     

    Haing two versions of LR open at the same time seems to work on Macs, but not on Windows.

     

    Beat

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 11, 2012 5:55 PM   in reply to Cornelia-I

    Cornelia, your experience precisely duplicates mine - images are exported from Lightroom 4 without the correct curve, even if I've never even looked at the image in the Develop Module.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 11, 2012 6:00 PM   in reply to Check-raise Charley

    Check-raise Charley wrote:

     

    Cornelia, your experience precisely duplicates mine - images are exported from Lightroom 4 without the correct curve, even if I've never even looked at the image in the Develop Module.

    Reason for this is that whenever the image is rendered (export, print, update of preview etc.), the tone curve settings are not included, because they're not in the Develop settings of the image (see the curve panel).

     

    Beat

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 12, 2012 1:13 PM   in reply to b_gossweiler

    b_gossweiler wrote:

     

    Reason for this is that whenever the image is rendered (export, print, update of preview etc.), the tone curve settings are not included, because they're not in the Develop settings of the image (see the curve panel).

     

    Beat

    Hi Beat,

    Your statement regarding non-inclusion of tone curve settings is about current LR4-bug only?

    ...otherwise I would be very puzzled...

    Cornelia

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 12, 2012 2:35 PM   in reply to Isopoda

    I've just tested the "script workaround" by Adobe

    http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lr4_deleted_all_ my_tone_curve_adjustments

    and everything worked perfectly. The script restored tone curves on nef, dng and virtual copies. Exported images reflect the correct develop.

    I'm a Mac user with Lion 10.7.3

     

    Mauro

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 12, 2012 2:52 PM   in reply to mauro morando

    I have also used the script, everything ran smoothly.

     

    I am not so sure about the results: contrary to LR4beta I think images still in PV10 look somewhat softened, while displaying the identical tone curve in POINT EDITING MODE as in LR3.

    Strange: when I toggle between Point editing and Parametric mode the shape of the curve displayed changes considerably. In parametric mode you would not recognize it again.

    All this while still in PV10.

     

    Win7-64bit

     

    Cornelia

     
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