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FroQ_Chennai
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Manual text hyphenation issue!

Mar 26, 2012 12:37 PM

Hi All,

 

I have an issue about text hyphenation. We actually work with different languages for foreign clients. So we keep the Illustrator language accordingly to get right text breakup. Sometimes default breakup doesn’t give right breakup. So in that case we do give manual breakup for text.

 

So after a while, if we get feedback from client, to do change where, the breakup runs to the next line and still the hyphenation exists. So I would like to know is there any way to solve this issue.

 

Text_hyphenation.png

If you see above screen shot, the left side file is the one which we did with manual text breakup. And then client given some text corrections. So while doing text corrections hyphenation run to next line.

 

So this is what makes me crazy. Because it is quite difficult to trace the manual hyphenations after doing the changes. The reason to difficult is, we do multi files and multi text breakups. So i really want to know, if there is a way to solve this issue.

 

Thanks for the time to read this and appreciate for positive reply.

 

regards

FroQ

1882 Views   23 Replies   Latest reply: Jacob Bugge, Mar 28, 2012 9:38 AM
 
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  • [Jongware]
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    1. [Jongware],
    Mar 26, 2012 12:45 PM   in reply to FroQ_Chennai
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    It seems that hyphen was inserted manually, not in the recommended way -- as a discretionary hyphen.

     
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  • [Jongware]
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    2. [Jongware],
    Mar 26, 2012 12:47 PM   in reply to [Jongware]
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    OT Did your client tell you "plant-aardig" was hyphenated wrong? In that case they should check their dictionary, or, even better, ask a native speaker to verify.

     

    Cause I am one and that word *was* hyphenated correctly in the first place.

     
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  • FroQ_Chennai
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    3. FroQ_Chennai,
    Mar 26, 2012 1:17 PM   in reply to FroQ_Chennai
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    Well, thanks for your reply.

     

    As I mentioned earlier that sometimes we give manual breakup. Because the default breakup doesn't give right result.

    Up to now it's fine.

     

    But if I get any feedback from client to adjust the text, while doing that feedback the manual text breakup runs into the next line because I did some changes in text.

     

    But if the manual text runs in to the next line, to me it is very difficult to trace, where the hyphenations are exists. Because we handle multiple files and multiple persons.

     

    Hope this makes you clear.

     

    if not please let me know, I'll try to explain in other way.

     
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  • [Jongware]
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    4. [Jongware],
    Mar 26, 2012 1:53 PM   in reply to FroQ_Chennai
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    Next time, use a discretionary hyphen. Hope that makes it clear.

     
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  • FroQ_Chennai
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    5. FroQ_Chennai,
    Mar 26, 2012 1:59 PM   in reply to [Jongware]
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    [Jongware] wrote:

     

    Next time, use a discretionary hyphen. Hope that makes it clear.

    Discretionary hyphen is an option. But as I told that Illustrator default hyphen may not correct. So that's why we have to use manual hyphen. So that case what do we do?

     
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  • [Jongware]
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    6. [Jongware],
    Mar 26, 2012 2:09 PM   in reply to FroQ_Chennai
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    A discretionary hyphen is different from what you call "default hyphen" -- or at least, I think it is. If Illustrator breaks a word on a place you don't want it to, insert a discretionary hyphen in the correct place. The discretionary hyphen, by design, has the properties you are looking for.

     
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  • FroQ_Chennai
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    7. FroQ_Chennai,
    Mar 26, 2012 2:50 PM   in reply to [Jongware]
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    This is someting interesting to me.

     

    will you please get me the details. I mean how to get discretionary hyphen and how effective it works?

     
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  • [Jongware]
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    8. [Jongware],
    Mar 26, 2012 3:28 PM   in reply to FroQ_Chennai
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    You get it (on a Mac) with Cmd+Shift+- (hyphen key; the same hotkey as in InDesign). And it's 100% effective in what it's designed to do: if you insert a discretionary hyphen, it will be used as the preferred breaking point in the word you inserted it in.

     

    If this is all totally new to you, why not take a moment to look it up, rather than asking "more detail please". Don't bother to check the online Illustrator help -- it was the very first thing I did, and it's worthless, as it contains virtually nothing on this topic. The InDesign help describes it much better.

     
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  • FroQ_Chennai
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    9. FroQ_Chennai,
    Mar 27, 2012 5:54 AM   in reply to [Jongware]
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    This is the option what I am looking for!

     

    but I see this is working only in InDesign. it is not functioning in Illustrator.

    or Am I doing something wrong?

    yes, i have tried command+shift+ - on Mac. but i don't see any improvement.

     
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  • [Jongware]
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    10. [Jongware],
    Mar 27, 2012 7:27 AM   in reply to FroQ_Chennai
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    I've Got Bad News For You.

     

    It is the exact option you were looking for, and it has been so since ... well, about 1986, as that's when I started typesetting, and this feature was already there in WordPerfect 4.2.

     

    Not so in Illustrator CS4 (v14.0), March 2012. You can insert soft hyphens until you go blue in the face but Illustrator simply ignores them. See the soft hyphen in the middle of "hypothesis" in the right column:

     

     

    hyphens.PNG

     

    Now I showed some initiative, and after finding out that it indeed does not work (as you did), I turned to Google (which you did not), and that led me to this discussion: http://forums.adobe.com/message/1258567

     

    This crucial feature does not work, and there is no easy way to work around it either. Please complain to Adobe.

     

    (I did not try CS5.5 -- perhaps it works for that version, perhaps it does not. Anyone else care to see?)

     
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  • FroQ_Chennai
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    11. FroQ_Chennai,
    Mar 27, 2012 1:45 PM   in reply to [Jongware]
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    I am using CS5.5, but I still don't find that option.

    actually keyboard shortcut (cmd+shift+hyphen) partly works in AICS5.5. But not exact as InDesign.

     

    Is there any otherway to fix this issue?

     

    I really appreciate [Jongware] effot. Thanks for the information.

     
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  • steve fairbairn
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    12. steve fairbairn,
    Mar 27, 2012 4:33 PM   in reply to FroQ_Chennai
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    You must have hyphenation turned on (checked in the Paragraph panel).

    Once it is turned on you should be able to use discretionary hyphens.

     
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  • FroQ_Chennai
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    13. FroQ_Chennai,
    Mar 27, 2012 7:35 PM   in reply to steve fairbairn
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    Hi Steve,

     

    Let me explain my problem to you clearly.

     

    As you know that if we give manual hyphen (hard hyphen) and then if we edit the text, then the word does break with with hyphen. I mean the line '-' still exists.
     
    So to avoid this, we have discretionary hyphen. But this option works great in InDesign. But I don't see the good result in Illustrator.

     

    Discretionary_Hyphen.png

    if you see the image, there you can find the differences between Illustrator and InDesign.
     
    So may I know the possibilities of getting positive results in illustrator?

     
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  • [Jongware]
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    14. [Jongware],
    Mar 28, 2012 2:28 AM   in reply to steve fairbairn
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    Steve, see http://forums.adobe.com/message/1258567

     

    It does not work with CS4.

     
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  • steve fairbairn
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    15. steve fairbairn,
    Mar 28, 2012 3:26 AM   in reply to [Jongware]
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    Jongware: Yep, that was a thread I started several moons ago.

    I have since moved on to CS3.

     

    FroQ: The trick seems to be to select Adobe Every-line Composer in the Paragraph panel's fly-out menu.

    Like I pointed out in post #12 you must have Hyphenation ticked.

    I tried it just a moment ago with a very long Icelandic word and the language set to English.

    Automatic English hyphenation was rubbish as expected but discretionary hyphens worked perfectly, overriding the automatic hyphenation.

     
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  • Jacob Bugge
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    16. Jacob Bugge,
    Mar 28, 2012 4:07 AM   in reply to FroQ_Chennai
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    FroQ,

     

    It seems that discretionary hyphens work in 10 and in CS3 and that is it.

     

    If you have the option, you may try to switch to CS3, place the hyphens, and then switch back to the present (10 is beyond the great divide that spans more than a hyphen can bridge).

     
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  • steve fairbairn
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    17. steve fairbairn,
    Mar 28, 2012 4:54 AM   in reply to Jacob Bugge
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    I think it has something to do with Every-line Composer.

    I couldn't get it to work with Single-line Composer so I switched.

    I'm not at all sure where the difference lies but Every-line works as far as I can ascertain.

     

    Maybe it's not the version that's to blame – can anyone out there check?

     

    What version of Auntie Illie are you on, FroQ?

     

    Try dragging a text box. Then enter a long nonsensical word and split it up with discretionary hyphens. Direct select the right end of the text box and drag it to the left. Your word should hyphenate as you wish.

    My word was Vaðlaheiðavegagerðarmannavinnuskúrslyklahringur which means The ring to the key of the shed of the road repair workers on Vadla heath :-)

     
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  • FroQ_Chennai
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    18. FroQ_Chennai,
    Mar 28, 2012 4:53 AM   in reply to Jacob Bugge
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    Discretionary_Hyphen_2.png

     

    Hi Guys,

     

    i don't think it is something with 'single or every line composer' as you see abouve screen shot, i given discretionary hyphen. But I still don't get the correct results. But the same command works great in InDesign.

     

    regards,

     
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  • steve fairbairn
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    19. steve fairbairn,
    Mar 28, 2012 5:01 AM   in reply to FroQ_Chennai
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    Hmmm. Strange. But you didn't tell us what version of Illie you are using.

    I also edited my last post a bit.

     

    And by the way, Document may be hyphenated  Doc - u - ment.

     
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  • Jacob Bugge
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    20. Jacob Bugge,
    Mar 28, 2012 5:48 AM   in reply to FroQ_Chennai
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    Steve,

     

    CS5.5, see post #11.

     
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  • FroQ_Chennai
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    21. FroQ_Chennai,
    Mar 28, 2012 6:50 AM   in reply to steve fairbairn
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    yes, it is strange.

     

    'document' i just breaked to show you the problem.

     

    But is there any other way to fix the issue?

     

    I mean if there are any other plug-ins for text handling in illustrator, that could be helpful to me.

     
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  • steve fairbairn
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    22. steve fairbairn,
    Mar 28, 2012 6:57 AM   in reply to Jacob Bugge
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    Steve, CS5.5, see post #11.

    Yep, sorry, missed it.

     

    This gets "curiouser and curiouser". Optional hyphens work in 10 and CS3 but not newer versions.

    Can anyone else confirm this? Is anyone at Adobe reading this?

     
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  • Jacob Bugge
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    23. Jacob Bugge,
    Mar 28, 2012 9:38 AM   in reply to FroQ_Chennai
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    With the present frequency of occurrence they should also work in CS6.

     
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