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everywhereguy
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New desktops, are mac's and workstations equal to cheaper pc's with better specs?

Apr 5, 2012 11:53 PM

I'm looking to buy a desktop for CS general, mainly PS and AE, plus a little VJ software, audio sequencers, and 3D animating here and there. I'm not a professional but I hope to be someday as I'm graduating soon. I'm noticing there are $1000+ workstation desktops that have similar or worse RAM and CPU than under-$1000 desktops that are aimed at gamers or general power users. Then there are mac's which cost much more for similar specs, but I'm considering a 21.5" iMac if it's really worth it for creative media.

 

This is basically what I'm talking about. Cheaper desktops have better specs than the more expensive iMac and workstation desktop.

 

I'm assuming there's quality increases with these iMac's and workstations, but is it worth it? Are the way these things are built going to make them perform better than the cheaper ones, for my needs? I've come to believe that I need at least a certain amount of RAM and processing power for video editing and such but I don't have $2000+ to buy an iMac or workstation with those parts, so if I get a "better quality" machine with lesser parts is that generally sufficient?

 

All advice appreciated, thanks.

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 6, 2012 12:23 AM   in reply to everywhereguy

    You don't need a Mac to get work done, plain and simple. They're nice as a design piece, but they have no technological advantage at all. And in recent years Apple moved more into the "moms and dads" business and failed to support critical features for professionals in OSX, so some things can become pretty hairy. Don't get me wrong, if I had the money, I'd get a Mac, too, but it's not essential and what was true in the past about those machines being rock solid and not prone to virus infections no longer stands closer scrutiny. From my forum activities I sometimes just get the exact opposite impression... Well, go with what you can afford. Win 7 is nice and reliable and core3i/core5i/core7i processors are affordable enough to build a good workstation even on a budget.

     

    Mylenium

     
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    Apr 6, 2012 3:51 AM   in reply to Mylenium

    At the risk of starting an OS war let me tell you my story.

     

    I've been mostly Mac for the last 6 years and the Macs have been nearly completely trouble free for me. Not once in that time did I loose a single day of production fighting hardware or OS problems with my Macs. I still regularly work on a first generation Intel iMac I purchased right after they were released in late 2006, carried around like a laptop for 3 years using an iLugger case, then sold to one of my clients when I upgraded to an aluminum iMac in August of 2010. The only thing I ever did to that 24" iMac was run OS updates, upgrade the OS from Leopard to Show Leopard (each upgrade took about an hour) a semi-annual dust and lint cleaning, and replacing the hard drive with a larger one after 2 1/2 years of lugging the machine around almost every day like it was a laptop. I spent the last 5 days working on that machine at the client's office, and, while it's not as fast as a new machine would be, it's very capable, the display is marvelous work on, and the monitor calibration to the office printer is still dead on. Not bad for a machine that cost about $1700 nearly six years ago and was seriously abused by all the traveling. Who in their right mind carries a 24" desktop machine around like a laptop anyway. That's an average annual cost for running the iMac of less than $400. It's only $100/year if you subtract the $1100 I got when I sold the machine.

     

    In the past 7 years I've gone through 3 PC based systems. One was a hotrod Alienware dual Xeon machine that cost nearly $6,000 with all the drives and extras, one a high end laptop who's identity shall remain nameless because it never worked right and the manufacturer usually produces very good machines, and the other was a home built box I spent about $2200 on including a 4 drive array for storage. I kept my PC's healthy by constantly keeping the anti virus software up to date and by routinely restoring the boot drive and OS from a Norton Ghost image of a clean and working build. Not one of those machines is still in service because they all stopped working. The desktops went through power supplies, cooling fans, display cards and raid controllers, all of which failed at least once during their service life. All of the windows machines went through periods where I was fighting display driver issues, OS issues, and hardware issues for more than two days. I planned on and put in the budget 1 full day of maintenance on each machine every 3 months. The two desktops sit in my garage collecting dust. Neither will boot. Both have hardware problems that are just too expensive to fix. The laptop went to the recycle bin four months after the warranty ran out because it completely died and the cost of repair ridiculous. Over the last 7 years I spent nearly 1000 per year per machine keeping my windows machines up to date and running.

     

    Can you build or buy a windows based machine for less than a Mac? Sure. Is the latest windows OS a fairly decent operating system? Sure. The Windows OS drives me a little nuts lookikng for files and connecting to networks. Can you keep the software up to date as easily on a Windows machine as a Mac? Maybe. Is Lion a good OS for professional production? For me, I love it. It's beautiful and there's not a single thing that Lion does that bugs me or slows me down. For identical system specs is a Windows machine faster than a Mac? I don't know and I'm not going to argue the point because productivity for me has never been about how long it takes to render a scene, it's always been about how dependable the tools are, how easy it is to find old files, how easy it is to get the job done.

     

    What's down the road for Apple? I don't know. Do I feel they have abandoned the professional graphics artist? Not at all. Are they going to drop Mac Pros? I don't know. Did I hate what they did to Final Cut? Not completely. Are they perfect? Not at all. Do you get the great customer service from Apple? Yes, especially if you can get to an Apple Store. Apple care is simply amazing. Do you get great customer servie from Windows? I never thought so. Do you get great customer service from the folks that build windows machines? Depends entirely on the company that built the box. My experience has never been good at all.

     

    What's down the road for Windows? I don't know. What's down the road for Dell, HP, or for that matter the dozens, or maybe even hundreds of folks that build motherboards, display adaptors, network cards and all the other perifferals? I have no clue. All I can tell you is that I have received much more value from every dollar I spent on a Mac than I ever did from a Windows machine. I've spent so much less time fussing with the system and drivers, and that I've lost so little time with my Macs that the choice of a new machine for me is a very easy one.

     

    One last side note. My family is still using a first generation Mac Mini. I paid $600 for it January 11, 2005. The only maintenance other than a semi annual cleaning, was a new, bigger hard drive in 2010. The machine was retired to serving as a print server and backup email and web browser/homework station last Christmas when we replaced it with a new Mac Mini. In case you're counting that's an annual cost for a machine that's never been down a day in it's life of about $100 per year including the new hard drive.

     

    BTW, I love my 21" iMac and it's been more than adequate for 90% of my production. It's quiet and the display is simply amazing to work on all day long.

     
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    Apr 6, 2012 4:01 AM   in reply to everywhereguy

    Sorry about the book I posted. Let me answer the workstation question.

     

    A manufactured workstation is only worth what you get in terms of customer service. Hardware prices are so competitive on the and if you match quality for quality the only thing you get over a home built PC is customer service. The system you linked to comes up at about $1100 and it's not as powerful as a new basic iMac 21 @ $1200 and you still have to buy a monitor. i3 processor vs i5, 8GB of ram vs 4 for the iMac, but 16GB of ram will not cost you much and it takes about a minute to install, no mouse, no keyboard... In short, the workstation you pointed us to is, in my humble opinion, way over priced compared to a 21 inch new iMac.

     
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    Apr 6, 2012 7:58 AM   in reply to Rick Gerard

    When you buy a Macintosh, you get a nice looking box, true, and all of the internals are essentially comoditized these days: a disk is a disk, RAM is RAM, cards is cards.

    I've been in studios where the PC has been assembled form separate components and they've gone all out to create an amusing and individualistic sculpture with internal LEDs, illuminated fans, plexi side panels, custom paint jobs. Anyone can build a box and make it horribly ugly or elegantly personal. You can put your Mac inside an aquarium.

     

    But the single item that tends to make Mac users interesting and cool, the thing you get that makes the Mac so incredibly cool and fun and interesting and compelling is the Macintosh operating system. That has infinitely more value to me than the stupid box.

     
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    Apr 6, 2012 8:16 AM   in reply to bogiesan

    But the single item that tends to make Mac users interesting and cool, the thing you get that makes the Mac so incredibly cool and fun and interesting and compelling is the Macintosh operating system. That has infinitely more value to me than the stupid box.

     

    But ultimately, does even that matter? When I'm inside AE, I'm inside AE. When I'm in Cinema 4D or modo I'm inside those programs with their custom UI and barely get to see the OS except for the dialogs looking different. Unless you are dependent on some specifics of the OS, it is barely a point. And just in reverse, it's not that Windows people would notice this much, either. Once a system has been configured and just works, you barely take any notice of the under-the-hood stuff anymore. And you could even make it look and behave like a Mac, if you wanted...

     

    Mylenium

     
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    Apr 6, 2012 9:47 AM   in reply to Mylenium

    Mylenium wrote:

     

    But the single item that tends to make Mac users interesting and cool, the thing you get that makes the Mac so incredibly cool and fun and interesting and compelling is the Macintosh operating system. That has infinitely more value to me than the stupid box.

     

    But ultimately, does even that matter? When I'm inside AE, I'm inside AE. When I'm in Cinema 4D or modo I'm inside those programs with their custom UI and barely get to see the OS except for the dialogs looking different. Unless you are dependent on some specifics of the OS, it is barely a point. And just in reverse, it's not that Windows people would notice this much, either. Once a system has been configured and just works, you barely take any notice of the under-the-hood stuff anymore. And you could even make it look and behave like a Mac, if you wanted...

     

    Mylenium

     

    Of course, but one could say that about DOS, too. All you eve had to do in order to enjoy or LOVE DOS was get it set up properly!

     

    You're right, I am totally dependent upon the Mac OS and not ashamed to admit it, Quite the opposite, proud of it. It's the only computer I've had the privilege of using for all of my professional career. Being forced to use the PCs in my studio for corporate functions is the price I must pay for our Macinotshes.

     

    All joking aside, buy what you can afford, buy what you know your clients will use, buy what you want to be forced to learn or to use for the next five years.

     
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    Apr 6, 2012 6:37 PM   in reply to bogiesan

    One thing this thread lacks is a comparison on performance, a Mac and a PC with identical hardware, the PC will always outperform the Mac..

     
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    Apr 7, 2012 12:52 AM   in reply to everywhereguy

    Mac's are like hookers, they look sexy, but after you spent your money, you wonder whether it was worth it.

     

    That summarizes my favorite description of Mac's. Why?

     

    Pro's: There is no doubt, they look very good, they have a great build quality and are not plagued as much by viruses as PC's.

     

    Con's: They are expensive, the MBP and iMAC do not meet minimum practical requirements for Premiere Pro, they lack BR capability, they lack eSATA, the only external disk solutions worth looking at are very expensive Thunderbolt drives, their memory expansions are outrageously costly, their video cards lack CUDA support, unless you can install a Quadro 4000 card, that is around 4 times more expensive than a similar card on a PC, or twice as expensive as a GTX 680, that is two generations newer and much faster. They lack the possibility to use two video cards, which is beneficial with AE and Ray tracing renders. AE can use two CUDA cards here. Furthermore there are far fewer people using Mac than PC and thus support on fora from users is much more limited, there are far fewer utilities to make maintaining the system easier, faster and more convenient.

     

    PC's are used by 92% of all computer users (so much better access to user support on the fora), allow fantastic flexibility to customize to the needs of the user, are far less costly and are much better performers.

     

    My feeling from reading all the posts here is that Mac users have much more problems than PC users. The proportion of questions from Mac users here is around 33% of all questions, but you would expect a percentage like 6%, because that is reflects the 92% PC versus 6% Mac users around the world. The high percentage of Mac questions can be attributed to lacking knowledge, because many do not know more than that the power cord must be plugged in and that is about it, but nevertheless it is telling that Mac's are not ideal either.

     

    If you aren't savvy enough to build your own computer, you must rely on either off-the-shelf Dell or HP, that sometimes have attractively priced boxes, but don't think you have a system that meets your needs if you are into AE and PR. To make it suitable for those applications is often not possible or they steal you blind with extras that cost three times more than elsewhere. In those cases the price rapidly approaches the cost of a Mac. The alternative is to go to a good custom builder like ADK, that deliver excellent machines at a great price, specifically made to your needs and requirements and follow it up with great service.

     

    IMO the bottom line is:

     

    Get a MAC Pro if you have money to burn, are only interested in looks and do not care about bang-for-the-buck. Never get a MBP or iMac.

     

    In all other cases get a PC.

     

    PS. The Asus is at least 3 - 5 times faster than the iMAC in your Newegg link.

     
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    Apr 9, 2012 12:53 PM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    to put it in performance POV vs $..

     

    Premiere Pro CS5 Version 5.5 Testing

    Mac Pro 2010 Dual 2.93GHz $7798 with apple care plus $800 for the only video card you canput in Apple for Cuda

    24GB 1600 CL 9

    Quadro 4000

    2 WD 1Tb Sata 64 Meg Cache 600 Drives in Raid 0

    Video material - AVCHD 1080P 24 Frame Each Cut to 30 minutes of material

    Export Codec - H264 HDTV 1080P 24 Preset Default

    4 Effects per Layer - Fast Color Corrector, Brightness & Contrast, Video Limiter, Sharpen

    Each Layer Scaled to 50% for 4 frame PinP view.

    3 Layer - 42:24

    4 Layer - 44:05

    I7 2600K 4.7 GHz  about $ 3256

    16GB Blackline 1600 CL 9

    570GTX

    4 WD 1Tb Sata 64 Meg Cache 600 Drives in 2 Raid 0 arrays

    3 Layer - 30:46

    4 Layer - 33:36

    i dont care what universe you come from there is NO justifaction for spending $8600 and getting less performance than a $3250 system. for about $300 more you can get even better performance from the new Sandy E processor

    Scott

    ADK

     
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    Apr 9, 2012 3:04 PM   in reply to Scott Chichelli

    That's $5350 more for slower video editing hardware!  I was pricing the new Samsung 65" LED TV's.  The most expensive model comes in at a little over $5000.  That would make a great reference monitor in conjunction with the new GTX 680 but I doubt the IRS would buy that as a business expense! 

     
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    Apr 9, 2012 3:25 PM   in reply to Scott Chichelli

    >

    i dont care what universe you come from there is NO justifaction for spending $8600 and getting less performance than a $3250 system. for about $300 more you can get even better performance from the new Sandy E processor

    <

    Yes, this was a doomed thread from the start, it was either going to be an OS war or a rationalization involving time.

     

    When I started using Aftrer Effects it was called CoSA. It took a weekend to render one effect on one layer. Anything faster than that is a mysterious improvement and deep voodoo as far as I'm concerned. If were in a work situation where I cared about that kind of time, I'd have some PCs in a render farm and I'd be paying the hidden costs of acquring the additional skills to maintain the farm instead of having fun in Fater Effects. I use Macintosh by choice, the economics or rendering time savings in AE are not factors. My Macs did not cost $8600, more like $5,000 each, and they do so much more for us than just AE and they do what I need them to do and all of my people do like them ever so very much and that's very important to me and my boss. Happy people are happy and productive. Is that worth the extra $2,000-4,000? Depends on your business and what else you do besides After Effects.

     

    One day the mission of my department could change and I'll be faced with a sudden conversion of production hardware. That will not be any big deal for us, we're flexible, and we'll be able to keep the Macs anyway. But to replace our perfectly good stable of a dozen Macs with new PCs makes equally no sense in my universe either.

     

    If I'm shoping for a baseline workstation for use as an After Effects editor only, and I'm in a work environment where the capital is tight then, of course, it will be prudent and responsible for everyone to carefully investigate and pursue all cost saving opportunities. 


     
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    Apr 9, 2012 4:20 PM   in reply to bogiesan

    bogiesan wrote:

     

    Yes, this was a doomed thread from the start, it was either going to be an OS war or a rationalization involving time.

     

    Yes, this question always seems to spark a jihad.

     

    From The Big Chill:

     

    Michael: I don't know anyone who could get through the day without two or three juicy rationalizations. They're more important than sex.

    Sam Weber: Ah, come on. Nothing's more important than sex.

    Michael: Oh yeah? Ever gone a week without a rationalization?

     

    Epic post, Rick!

     
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    Apr 9, 2012 7:20 PM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Harm Millaard wrote:

     

    PC's are used by 92% of all computer users (so much better access to user support on the fora), allow fantastic flexibility to customize to the needs of the user, are far less costly and are much better performers.

     

    My feeling from reading all the posts here is that Mac users have much more problems than PC users. The proportion of questions from Mac users here is around 33% of all questions, but you would expect a percentage like 6%, because that is reflects the 92% PC versus 6% Mac users around the world.

     

    To be fair, that ratio of PCs to Macs includes users across all walks of life.  I think you would find a poll of people in our industry would produce a different result.  I wouldn't be surprised to find that 33% of video editors use Macs vs PCs.  To be honest, I would expect it to be a lot higher.

     

    As far as reliability goes, I agree with Rick's overall assessment that Macs come with less headaches but personally I have found that PCs are solid if you look after them.  The last PC I built (about ten years ago) ran solid for five years without a single blue screen.  I was vigilant about doing a fresh install once a year and I didn't do stupid things like overclock it until smoke streamed from the vents or download porn from Russian websites. 

     

    That said, I've been a MacPro user for the past six years. Decided to make the leap to Mac because I wanted to use FCP and Shake and the damn thing would run Windows too!  Seemed like an easy choice at the time.  Now that I'm in the market for a new system again, I find that FCP and Shake are both irrelevant to me.  Also, I have no confidence in Apple's long term desire to support professionals (in any field) and I would rather nail my left testicle to a floor board than resort to an iMac. I'll be going back to the home-built PC world, saving a little money, getting a little more power and having a far greater variety of hardware options.

     

    I will, however, miss the Russian porn sites

     
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    Apr 12, 2012 1:56 PM   in reply to everywhereguy

    The biggest problem I see is people convince themselves they have to have the best, fastest machine possible to do anything.  They don't think about stability and they don't think about what it is they actually do.  A professor of mine had this to say: "Don't waste your money.  Your job is going to provide you with what you need, and when you have a job you aren't going to want to do this stuff when you get home anyway."  You could get by just fine with an iMac.  Or you could go search e-bay or craigslist for a used Mac Pro (then spend 80 bucks to put a USB 3 card in it).  Just don't spend more than $2000 on anything.  I'm saying get a Mac because I prefer them.  That is the sole reason.  I find I get to focus more of my time on creating rather than maintaining.

     

    I bought a 15 inch macbook pro in 2006 for $2000 dollars.  I used it every day and edited video on it for years (without any problems, again, I don't know why people think you need some godly computer in this field).  In November 2011, I sold it on ebay for $680 and used that money to buy an iPad because I no longer needed the laptop.

     

    I bought a Dell desktop in 2003.  I used it every day until the fan on my videocard stopped spinning.  Then I put the old video card in it and gave it to my dad (the Dell had been replaced by the macbook at this point) so he didn't buy a new computer he didn't need. 

     

    He doesn't do anything that requires the speed of a comet or eleventy billion gigs of RAM.  I'm willing to bet 90% of the people talking in this thread don't either.

     

    You want a PC?  Buy a PC.  You want a Mac?  Buy a Mac.  The important thing is you sell it before it is completely obsolete and then put that money towards something new.  That is how you will save the most money, and that is the only longterm solution with technology.  Take care of it and sell it off.

     

    Macs might retain value over a longer period of time. I'm saying this because I was able to sell mine almost 6 years later for $680 (I had no scratches or dents on it).  On the other hand we have PC towers at work that are certainly faster than my 6 year old laptop, but we can't even sell them for $400.  Macs are marketable.  Clueless people think they're cool.

     

    I've also never had any downtime with any of my machines because I know how to take care of them.

     
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    Apr 12, 2012 2:11 PM   in reply to oldsodacan

    oldsodacan wrote:

     

    You want a PC?  Buy a PC.  You want a Mac?  Buy a Mac. 

     

    100% agree with this.  Having a choice is a wonderful thing

     

    I've also never had any downtime with any of my machines because I know how to take care of them.

     

    A lot of people who use PCs would say the same thing.  And I'm not talking about people running $400 Dells, I mean people who invest as much in their PCs as they would a Mac.  I run a four-year-old HP Workstation and I've had very few problems with it.  When I did, HP sent a technician to our facility to deal with it.  Conversely, we have two aging MacPros that are practically falling apart.  As great as Apple Care may be, we have to drag them down to the Apple store and say bye-bye for several days to get them fixed.  But like you said, it's about your personal preference.  I would never try and convince someone not to buy a Mac.  They're great machines.  But as someone who does require the speed of a coment and eleventy billion gigs of RAM, I'm not inclined towards Apple's current desktop offerings

     
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    Apr 13, 2012 3:52 AM   in reply to oldsodacan

    oldsodacan wrote:
    "I find I get to focus more of my time on creating rather than maintaining."

     

    Just curious, I used to work as an independent contractor for a corporate video production company that had two PC guys and three Mac guys.  The Mac guys were constantly telling us how much PCs suck.  One day, I was called into their editing room where an intern was experiencing constant crashes on a PC with Premiere Pro CS5.  I sat down to take a look for the possible source of trouble while they were at lunch and found they had set the scratch disks to System "C".  The C drive was filled up to the point where there was about 6 Megabytes of space left.  Also Adobe claims that the new version of Premiere handles a multitude of file formats natively.  I have found this to be a true to a degree.  When you combine all sorts of oddball file formats on the timeline, I ALWAYS see a sharp drop in project stability as well as an overall slowdown.  I always batch process image files in PhotoShop to a consistent file format and don't use unnecessarily large dimension images on the timeline.

     

    Do Macs have something built in that prevent the System "C" drive from filling up with render files, *.pek files *.cfm files etc?

     

    I built the PC computers used at this company.  I used WD Raptor 150's for system drives.  Perhaps 300GB system drives could have avoided this issue when people without the concept of system maintenence burned on a single brain cell are working on large projects. Perhaps in this case, I should have spent the extra company money on larger System "C" drives.  I have always felt that maintence was just a part of keeping a computer running stable.

     
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    Apr 13, 2012 6:42 AM   in reply to Chuck A. McIntyre

    Do Macs have something built in that prevent the System "C" drive from filling up with render files, *.pek files *.cfm files etc?

     

    Actually, I recently had an issue with my MacPro in which OS-X kept writing hidden error files to the main system drive (about 5 a minute).  No idea what was causing this since I never received any kind of error message. Probably wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't recently installed an SSD boot drive that was only 120GB.  I woke up to an error message on my screen that said the boot drive was full and I was pretty much screwed.  After a lot of trouble shooting, scouring Google and some time in Terminal, I managed to stop OS-X from writing the files. So, no, I don't think there is anything in OS-X that prevents your drive from filling up with useless junk.  As with PCs, maintenance and common sense are required.

     
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    Apr 14, 2012 6:32 PM   in reply to Rick Gerard

    Thanks for this post Rick. It reminds me of the old quote:

     

    "People know the cost of everything but the value of nothing"

     

    As in most hardware forums the PC crowd salivate at the mouth when provided with the oppurtunity of putting down the mac in question with lists of benchmarks, prices and random numbers. We even got people calling mac's hookers!? I thought this was a professional forum?

     

    @OP,I read your post and in my opinion, being a student (and just starting out) I wouldn't worry about specs and just get the iMac. Get a external firewire HD to store stuff on and a USB HD for time machine backups. Job done.

     

    P.S. I just reread Harm Millaard's post...his advice is terrible. I have met so many professional editors using macbook pros and imacs for years. A close friend who does a lot of one day edits for his wedding film business, uses MBP along with Premiere as his main tools. And this isn't some cowboy, he is earning massive amounts producing a high end product for his happy clients and FAST.

     

    Anyway this will be a first but final post. I actually came here looking for some advise on a particular Mac but it seems people are so tied up with doing irrelevant benchmarks that I doubt I would get anything useful.

     
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    Apr 15, 2012 2:06 PM   in reply to smoally

    "People know the cost of everything but the value of nothing"

     

    Value is subjective.  PCs can be built to many different specifications.  Top of the line Mac hardware can nearly be duplicated with available-to-the-public PC components.  The missing ingredient for the PC system builder from a legal standpoint is the Apple technology  enabling the installation of OS X.  The inside of Mac cases are a work of art in my opinion.  Very clean and neat.  I really don't like OS X or the one-button mouse. Mac Pros are built using Xeon processors.  These coupled with error correcting code (ECC) memory are ideal when used as servers.  The Mac Pro is a kind of Swiss Army Knife computer.  The advantages these computers provide to a user as a server are not significant enough to a video editor to justify the extra cost in my opinion.  In some cases one can spend 3 times more for a Mac Pro. There is value to you but not to me.  As many others have put it, if you like a Mac, buy a Mac.  If you like a PC, buy or better yet build a PC.

     
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    Apr 15, 2012 3:12 PM   in reply to smoally

    smoally wrote:

     

    Thanks for this post Rick. It reminds me of the old quote:

     

    "People know the cost of everything but the value of nothing"

    ''What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing'' - Oscar Wilde

    - Don't know what this had to do with the subject here..

     

    As in most hardware forums the PC crowd salivate at the mouth when provided with the oppurtunity of putting down the mac in question with lists of benchmarks, prices and random numbers. We even got people calling mac's hookers!? I thought this was a professional forum?

    Don't cry, I get funny faces all day not having a Iphone but a HTC, 3yrs old

    *Mac users get very much and polite info/reactions on this forum and yes in this (high-end editing) area, its about specs and benchmarks and, for shure, the best bang for the buck.

    Nobody called anyone hookers, The wise and highly respected mr. Milaard joked:'' Mac's are like hookers.. (read above)

    You're right thinking this is a professional forum!

     

     

    @OP,I read your post and in my opinion, being a student (and just starting out) I wouldn't worry about specs and just get the iMac. Get a external firewire HD to store stuff on and a USB HD for time machine backups. Job done. But sslloooowww...

     

    P.S. I just reread Harm Millaard's post...his advice is terrible. I have met so many professional editors using macbook pros and imacs for years. A close friend who does a lot of one day edits for his wedding film business, uses MBP along with Premiere as his main tools. And this isn't some cowboy, he is earning massive amounts producing a high end product for his happy clients and FAST.

    Look at the ''posts'' count of mr. Millaard: over 17000 posts and a lot of great articles and what about his PPBM 4-5-6 site in co-op with Bill Gehrke, if thats terrible.. (talking about ''professional'' words) then.. then you're a..a starting student!

    I lose track with your ''Massive earning, not cowboy, wedding filming, high end happy friend''  I call that contradictions.

     

    Anyway this will be a first but final post. I actually came here looking for some advise on a particular Mac but it seems people are so tied up with doing irrelevant benchmarks that I doubt I would get anything useful. read *

     

    Cool down, don't worry...  you're not sounding very happy for a Apple man.

     
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    Apr 15, 2012 4:01 PM   in reply to smoally

    I cannot stand "Mac vs. PC" posts in these forums. But I can tell you that currently all of the MacBook Pros and iMacs use only ATi/AMD GPUs that currently cannot utilize MPE's GPU acceleration at all. This will change with CS6, where OpenCL support for certain HD 6xxxM GPUs (specifically, the HD 6750M and HD 6770M) for OSX will be added to the official MPE GPU acceleration supported GPU list.

     
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    Apr 18, 2012 7:15 AM   in reply to Chuck A. McIntyre

    "Do Macs have something built in that prevent the System "C" drive from filling up with render files, *.pek files *.cfm files etc?

     

    I built the PC computers used at this company.  I used WD Raptor 150's for system drives.  Perhaps 300GB system drives could have avoided this issue when people without the concept of system maintenence burned on a single brain cell are working on large projects. Perhaps in this case, I should have spent the extra company money on larger System "C" drives.  I have always felt that maintence was just a part of keeping a computer running stable."

     

    When I said less time maintaining I meant I feel like I have less hoops to jump through on OS X.

     

    There's a program called automator.  It might be able to be configured to look for and delete certain files.  Completely guessing, not really sure.

     

    Otherwise a computer is a computer, you still have to maintain them.  Sounds like you worked with people who didn't really know how to do that.

     
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    Apr 18, 2012 11:09 AM   in reply to oldsodacan

    There is good news on the way for editors who prefer the Mac.  The following is straight from Adobe:

     

    "In addition, new support for the OpenCL-based AMD Radeon HD 6750M and AMD Radeon HD

    6770M graphics card with a minimum of 1GB VRAM available with certain Apple MacBook Pro

    computers running OS X 10.7 brings improved mobile workflows to Mac users. Support for new

    NVIDIA Maximus dual-GPU configurations delivers even more extreme performance for tackling

    the most demanding workflows. NVIDIA Maximus-powered workstations combine the capabilities

    of NVIDIA Quadro® GPUs and the tremendous parallel processing power of NVIDIA Tesla™ GPUs.

    This gives you the power to achieve greater levels of interactivity, explore new ideas, and see

    results in less time—all at your desktop."

     

    I do remember Adobe's tech guys mentioning in the forum that the Nvidia Cuda-based Mercury Playback Engine was a joint effort... Nvidia engineers + Adobe engineers.  I also remember an Adobe rep mentioning the reason MPE was introduced as an Nvidia dependent technology was because AMD didn't have an OpenCL-based technology beyond the Beta phase of development.

     

    According to Adobe's above announcement, that must have changed.  All I can say is, I'm looking forward to CS6 and Mac people should be looking forward to CS6 as well.

     
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    Apr 18, 2012 1:32 PM   in reply to Rick Gerard

    Rick Gerard wrote:

     

    Sorry about the book I posted. Let me answer the workstation question.

     

    A manufactured workstation is only worth what you get in terms of customer service. Hardware prices are so competitive on the and if you match quality for quality the only thing you get over a home built PC is customer service. The system you linked to comes up at about $1100 and it's not as powerful as a new basic iMac 21 @ $1200 and you still have to buy a monitor. i3 processor vs i5, 8GB of ram vs 4 for the iMac, but 16GB of ram will not cost you much and it takes about a minute to install, no mouse, no keyboard... In short, the workstation you pointed us to is, in my humble opinion, way over priced compared to a 21 inch new iMac.

    I see an Asus system for $949.99 that has way better specs than the $1,199.99 iMac. Not to mention the fact you can get a good monitor for $240.00. The Asus PC can be upgraded with video capture cards should they be needed. I have never heard of PCs dying as you claim. I bet I could get them them working for less than $100.00. I am not calling you liar but I am saying your experience is an odd exception to the rule.

     
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