Image on PS different color and Sat when I upload to my website

[Nashrambler]

Since switching to PS CC desktop, I have had increasing problems with color and saturation of my photo images when I upload them to my site. They reproduce as redder and otherwise more desecrated than they were in Photoshop. But now they are showing up that way when I click on the Image resize and they are a different color in the preview box! Editing in srgb from a dng out of Lightroom. I was editing in Adobe rgb but my web host said that was the issue. It was not. This happens no matter which platform I use.

I can't add new pictures to my site until this is fixed. When I add these to Facebook as a test, they reproduce correctly.

SS below show the way the image looks at the same time in PS. The Image Size window was copied from the full size window below it.

Any help is highly appreciated.

thank you,

Rob

Rob Lindsay Pictures

Shot with Canon 6D to CR2 file.

[D Fosse]

I suspect you have two separate things going on here. If there's a color shift in the preview, something's wrong. It reminds me of a very erratic bug that's been reported from time to time. I can't recall what became of it - but it only affects the preview, not the file.

The other thing is that web files should be prepared so that they display correctly even without color management. That means you cannot use Adobe RGB. Web files have to be sRGB.

The reason for this is that an average, standard monitor is pretty close to sRGB natively. This means an sRGB file will display roughly right as-is. There is no need for color management to remap from the document color space into the monitor color space.

If those two color spaces are very different, such remapping is necessary, otherwise the colors will be all wrong. That happens if a)the file is not sRGB, or b)the monitor is very different from sRGB. The latter applies with so-called wide gamut monitors.

So we also need to know which monitor you're using - make and model.

[Nashrambler]

D Fosse: Thanks for your response. I am editing on a LaCie 324, about 10 yrs old. I have not calibrated it in a while but the images are consistent across my other platforms and this monitor.

I went to my trusty old PS/CS book from Scott Kelby and found the problem: for some reason, PSCC came with color workspace set at RGBColormatch. That was killing any kind of color match I needed, ironically. Once set to Adobe RGB as he insisted, all was right again on my screen and when the reedited file was posted to my site.

Scott was adamant that srg-b is a limitation for shooters. I'd like to know what others here use. I've been editing in Adobe rgb since 2005 and had no issues until this. And this was with RGB Colormatch.

[D Fosse]

Nashrambler  wrote

Scott was adamant that srg-b is a limitation for shooters.

I'm so tired of reading stuff like this. It's like telling people learning to drive that they need a Ferrari because everything else is "a limitation". You shouldn't use ProPhoto until you know what you're doing and why precisely you need it.

The same goes for Adobe RGB, and Colormatch RGB never had any traction in the first place. I don't know of anyone who has ever used or considered it.

There is nothing wrong with sRGB. It is extremely well specified for what it's intended to do - which is to define the color space of an average monitor. Granted, the spec was written for CRT and not LCD, but still. There is plenty enough colors inside sRGB for almost any practical purpose. With a standard monitor sRGB is all you ever see - so ask yourself if it isn't "colorful" enough.

Good color has nothing to do with absolute saturation. It's about color relationships, colors working together.

The big advantage of sRGB is precisely that it more or less matches monitor RGB, which means that it will display correctly even without color management. This is important if you don't know where your file will end up, what application it will ultimately be displayed in.

ProPhoto is used for headroom - to avoid premature gamut clipping while working. But you need to know how to handle it, or, like the Ferrari, you'll end up in the ditch.

[Nashrambler]

But if, down the road, the file is chosen for printing, isn't there an advantage to an original edit in Adobe RGB? Is there no situation if the original edit is in s-rgb where one would have to go back and re-edit in a wider gamut?

[rob day]

But if, down the road, the file is chosen for printing, isn't there an advantage to an original edit in Adobe RGB?

You don't have to convert and edit in sRGB for web work. You can edit in a larger gamut space and make the conversion via an export.

You really need a master file saved as PSD so you can use non destructive layers in a lossless format, and then export to the desired resolution and file format for the web. The color conversion to sRGB can happen in the Export dialog or the legacy Save for Web.

So here you can see this layered PSD is assigned ProPhoto. When I export I can choose JPG as the format, set the desired pixel dimensions and make the conversion to sRGB.

If I open the exported JPG in Firefox the color matches my ProPhoto PSD's color

[D Fosse]

Nashrambler  wrote

But if, down the road, the file is chosen for printing, isn't there an advantage to an original edit in Adobe RGB? Is there no situation if the original edit is in s-rgb where one would have to go back and re-edit in a wider gamut?

Yes, there are big advantages to these larger color spaces - that's why they exist. But unless you understand why they are useful - how they can help you to preserve data and avoid gamut clipping - they will basically just get you in trouble. Going from these large synthetic spaces to any realistic output color space - print or screen - you need to remap the data and you need to know how to do that. ProPhoto in particular should never leave your computer.

At the very least these large color spaces require full color management all the way through to their final destination. Failing that they won't reproduce correctly.

[rob day · Accepted solution]

Looking at your document's title bar I can see you have Proof Colors turned on and the poof setup is set to the Windows profile (Internet Standard RGB (sRGB)), which explains why the Image Size preview color doesn't match the document color. The the third item in parenthesis after the title is the proof setup profile and not the actual document profile.

I can replicate your problem by using a custom Proof Setup profile that is different than the document's assigned profile.

Here in the lower left corner popup menu I've chosen Document Profile and you can see the actual assigned profile is ProPhoto RGB. I've set my Proof Setup profile to Internet Standard RGB (sRGB), which is showing what the color would look like on an sRGB device:

If I turn off Proof Colors I can see what the actual profiled color looks like and the Image Size preview and the doc color now match:

If you don't want to use sRGB as your document editing space then turn off proof setup and when you export the JPEG for web check Convert to sRGB:

[D Fosse]

Ah, good catch, Rob.

The only time you need to turn on proof, is to check for gamut clipping in print. Otherwise, keep it off.

[Nashrambler]

Thank you Mr Fosse for your help. I still can't understand where the ProPhoto Profile came from, tho, and what I can do to remove it from the files and my workflow. could it have been attached in Lightroom?

Your help is still needed .

Thanks!

[rob day]

I still can't understand where the ProPhoto Profile came from

I just used ProPhoto as an example of a profile assignment that conflicts with your proof setup, you haven't told us what your document's assigned profile is. If you click on the popup menu in the document's lower-left corner, you can choose to show the Document Profile.

I can tell you have View>Proof Colors turned on with your Proof Setup set to Internet Standard RGB and that's causing your problem.

Turn off Proof Colors, and use Export to save out the JPEG for your website. Make sure you check the Convert to sRGB checkbox in the Export dialog.

[D Fosse]

Nashrambler  wrote

could it have been attached in Lightroom?

If you use the "Edit in Photoshop"-command, the embedded color profile is set in Lightroom, and that profile is preserved by Photoshop. So that's how it opens.

The default profile for Lightroom "Edit In" happens to be ProPhoto. You change this default in Lightroom Preferences. If you do nothing, the file opens as ProPhoto and you need to convert to sRGB in Photoshop.

Editing in srgb from a dng out of Lightroom.

I assumed this meant the file already was in sRGB, with sRGB numbers.

[rob day]

PSCC came with color workspace set at RGBColormatch

Also make sure the document actually has a profile assigned and embedded—if there's no assignment you will see Untagged RGB as the Document Profile in the info field.

Your Color Settings’ RGB Working Space isn't necessarily the document's profile, it's the assigned profile that color manages the document (Edit Assign Profiles...). When you Save or Save As always make sure the Embed Color Profile box is checked.

Scott was adamant that srg-b is a limitation for shooters. I'd like to know what others here use.

In the end it doesn't really matter which RGB space you choose to edit in, just don't use Proof Colors for web work. If you want to work in the larger gamut ProPhoto (maybe the output will be to both a large gamut printer and the web), you can work in ProPhoto or AdobeRGB and make the conversion to sRGB when you export a JPEG for web.

[Nashrambler]

Thank you both for your time and help! I've always saved a master in PSD, but now I will use the Save For Web option to create an srgb file for my site.

You have saved me from long headaches!

Yours,

Rob Lindsay

[Martin_Bns]

Seems like a color management issue. When you export for web, be sure to export in sRgb.
If your starting image is in Adobe Rgb or Pro Photo color profile, you will get these problems if you do not manage them correctly.

Be sure to check the Proof color menu and assign the sRgb color profile to your file.

Cheers,
Martin

[D Fosse]

Martin_Bns  wrote

Be sure to check the Proof color menu and assign the sRgb color profile to your file.

Er...what we've been saying all along is to turn off proof and then stay as far away from the Proof menu as possible. And you don't assign sRGB, you convert to it.

[Nashrambler]

Thanks, Martin. Done and done.

Rob

[rob day]

Apologies if this is obvious to everyone, but Proof Colors lets you simulate of a future conversion or reassignment—it does not change the document.

This is a ProPhoto doc filled with 210|0|0

I can setup a Custom Proof Condition that simulates either an sRGB profile reassignment, where the numbers stay the same and the appearance changes (Preserve RGB Numbers checked), or a conversion to sRGB where the numbers change and a new profile is assigned, which in most cases preserves the color appearance.

Assigning sRGB simulation

Converting to sRGB simulation

When you choose Internet Standard RGB (sRGB) from the Proof Setup drop down there's no option to simulate a conversion—it only shows what would happen if you assigned sRGB, which is creating Rob's unexpected result.

[D Fosse]

Yes, that's a good illustration. And simulate is exactly what Proof does.

And to continue with the obvious - or maybe not: Proofing to sRGB is entirely pointless on a standard gamut display. It's already proofed to sRGB - that's all it can display.