Workflow and Data (CC + Classic)

[SidewinderX]

All -- I've got a few scenarios that I'm trying to wrap my head around with the new Lightroom CC. I've read most of the FAQs that I can find, and many forum threads, and there are still a few things that I don't understand about how the new Lightroom CC and Classic CC work and sync together -- hopefully someone with a bit more knowledge can help me out!

1. Migrated Collection Scenario
   • After many trials and errors, I think I've finally be able to migrate my Lightroom Classic catalog to the Lightroom CC cloud (it involved deleting most of my catalog, reorganizing it completely into collections, then trying about 3 times to get it to upload without getting hung or have too many errors).
   • In this scenario, I have about 3000 photos from New Zealand that I'm working through and editing. The were in my LR Classic collection, have now been migrated to Lightroom CC, are set to Sync in LR Classic, and I want to finish editing photos from that trip. I plan to do my editing in Lightroom Classic because it's a better tool and I have the follow questions:
     • Since I've got the photos in LR Classic set to sync, if I make edits in Classic, will they automatically be synced to the LR CC library? I had read somewhere that only Smart Previews are synced? Are the actual edits not synced to the cloud? What if I want to tweak or export a photo from my laptop (so I would be accessing via cloud in LR CC) -- do I actually have access to the RAW image and my LR Classic edits applied to it? Or are they only on my desktop with just the smart preview in the cloud library? If it only uploads a smart preview when I did that catalog migration, does that mean I have to keep the original RAW in the same place on my desktop forever because it's not in the LR cloud?
     • I've read that the geotagging does not sync to LR CC -- I'm not sure if I fully understand what that means. Does it just mean that LR CC doesn't have the "map" panel from LR Classic? Or does it mean that the Adobe LR CC cloud does not support that metadata field at all and strips it? E.g., if I look at the metadata from a photo in the LR CC library, does it not have lat/long data at all? If I export a photo from LR CC, will it include that geotagged data, even if LR CC doesn't support it itself?
2. New shoot, while on the road, Scenario
   • I have a nice desktop set up in my home with a beefier computer and calibrated monitor; so I prefer to do my editing there. That said, I often shoot away from home and was originally interested in the new LR CC with the idea of getting started while on the road and having a more seamless transition when I return home with the desktop
   • In this scenario, I shoot a couple cards of photos while on the road. I get back to my hotel and then I import them from my laptop using LR CC (right? Isn't it recommended to import directly into LR CC as opposed to Classic first?). While on the laptop in the hotel, I do some first pass culling of the photos, and maybe start editing a few.
     • When I get back home to my desktop and fire up LR Classic CC to start editing them, should I expect to see these photos in my synced collections? Or do I need to "look" from them in my LR CC library somehow before I can start editing them in LR Classic?
     • When I make an edit in LR Classic, it will be automatically synced back to the cloud right? So that I can see that edited photo in either LR Classic or LR CC?
     • When I want to export a photo to a JPG to get printed or share with a friend, can I do it from either program? Or is there a "preferred" way to export those photos?

I know it's a lot of questions -- I'll really appreciate any insight you folks can share with me!

[Neox99]

I say DON'T!

I could do another long list of why that is my opinion but I seem to get chastised by folks in this forum who disagree.

When Lr CC was introduced, Jullieanne Kost put out some videos about the release.

This one is a good representation in which she uses the word 'WHICH' numerous times when talking about the different uses of Lr Classic vs Lr Creative Cloud.

Can they be used together? Yes. On a limited basic and NEVER for simply syncing large/massive libraries of files to a 'pie in the sky cloud'!

This forum is replete with requests for help from people who try.

[99jon]

Your on-the-road workflow should work. In fact I found having each app on separate computers works best e.g. LR CC on laptop and Lr Classic at home on desktop.

Your originals are uploaded to the cloud and then downloaded into Lr Classic when you get home.

You will find them in the folders panel “From Lr Mobile/CC" or a nominated folder/dated sub-folders which you can set up in the Lr Classic prefs.

Any edits you make in Lr Classic will be synced to the cloud and reflected in Lr CC on your laptop and any phone or tablet devices.

Lr CC does not yet have a print module so for the time being the best print options will be found in Lr Classic.

N.B. care may be needed with metadata, especially if you use keywords or captions. Keywords do not sync between Lr CC and Lr Classic. This is to protect Lr Classic customers who have set up complex keyword hierarchies. I also discovered some corruption of captions/titles but only when having both apps installed on the same machine.

[Jim Wilde]

SidewinderX  wrote

1. Migrated Collection Scenario
   • After many trials and errors, I think I've finally be able to migrate my Lightroom Classic catalog to the Lightroom CC cloud (it involved deleting most of my catalog, reorganizing it completely into collections, then trying about 3 times to get it to upload without getting hung or have too many errors).
   • In this scenario, I have about 3000 photos from New Zealand that I'm working through and editing. The were in my LR Classic collection, have now been migrated to Lightroom CC, are set to Sync in LR Classic, and I want to finish editing photos from that trip. I plan to do my editing in Lightroom Classic because it's a better tool and I have the follow questions:
   • • Since I've got the photos in LR Classic set to sync, if I make edits in Classic, will they automatically be synced to the LR CC library? I had read somewhere that only Smart Previews are synced? Are the actual edits not synced to the cloud? What if I want to tweak or export a photo from my laptop (so I would be accessing via cloud in LR CC) -- do I actually have access to the RAW image and my LR Classic edits applied to it? Or are they only on my desktop with just the smart preview in the cloud library? If it only uploads a smart preview when I did that catalog migration, does that mean I have to keep the original RAW in the same place on my desktop forever because it's not in the LR cloud?
     • I've read that the geotagging does not sync to LR CC -- I'm not sure if I fully understand what that means. Does it just mean that LR CC doesn't have the "map" panel from LR Classic? Or does it mean that the Adobe LR CC cloud does not support that metadata field at all and strips it? E.g., if I look at the metadata from a photo in the LR CC library, does it not have lat/long data at all? If I export a photo from LR CC, will it include that geotagged data, even if LR CC doesn't support it itself?

The design intent of the Catalog Migration tool was for it to be used when the user's plan was to stop using Classic and to start using LRCC instead. It wasn't really intended to be used as you've used it, i.e. transferring all Classic data to LRCC and then re-enabling sync in Classic in order to continue to use the two apps in a hybrid workflow. I've tested that latter migration scenario and ran into some inconsistencies when re-enabling sync in the "migrated" catalog, which makes me think that the Adobe advice in that scenario is very sound, especially as there are other ways of achieving the same end objective.

And a point that's often overlooked when considering a hybrid Classic-LRCC workflow is that in Classic terms nothing has been changed by the introduction of the LRCC desktop app. I regard LRCC desktop app as simply one more entry point to the cloud ecosystem, which is useful in a two computer situation (e.g. the travel scenario which you've outlined)....but I agree with @99jon that running Classic and LRCC on the same computer is fairly pointless.

I've been syncing my catalog library to the Adobe cloud since syncing was introduced back in the LR5 cycle, about 4 years ago, and nothing has really specifically changed by the introduction of LRCC. There are still the same sync limitations with regard to Classic:

- It only uploads Smart Previews, not originals.

- It doesn't sync Keywords, Location Data, Colour Labels (probably face recognition data, but that's kinda moot as LRCC doesn't support it yet either).

- Photos deleted from within one of the LRCC apps do not get deleted from Classic (which may be a good thing, but nevertheless it is another difference to be aware of).

But other than that it still works with the ecosystem in the same way as it's predecessors LR5 and LRCC2015 did. Over time new functions were added, such as the syncing of Titles and Captions, but I suspect that's it as far as further development of Classic's sync capabilities is concerned.

To your questions:

1. Yes, edits will sync. Bear in mind that this is an integrated system, with the "cloud" as the hub. Apps do not sync directly to other apps, they sync to the cloud and the cloud takes care of syncing the changes to all the other sync-enabled apps. So make an edit (on a synced image in Classic, or any image in an LRCC app) and the change is synced to the cloud, and the next time any sync-enabled app is started it will receive those changes....the only caveat being those changes that Classic does not sync as I mentioned above. Note, however, that keywords and location data entered in an LRCC app will sync to the other LRCC apps, just not to Classic.

2. Geotagging: if an image that is synced from Classic already contains GPS coordinates, that GPS data will sync....so looking at the image in LRCC using the info panel you should see a small map with a marker for the image. Subsequently changing the GPS coordinates in Classic (I don't think LRCC yet allows GPS changes), those changes should sync to the cloud and thus you should see that change reflected in the map in LRCC. But any Location Data (Sublocation,City,State,Country) entered in Classic (either manually or via the reverse geocoding feature) will not sync to the cloud. However, Location Data entered in LRCC will, like keywords, sync to the cloud and thus to the other LRCC apps, but not to Classic.

Of course, using the migration tool will at least get all Keywords and Location Data out of the catalog and into LRCC, so that is one major benefit of doing that catalog migration. But there are other ways to do that. e.g. if you enter your keywords and location data metadata in Classic before you sync those images, and then write that metadata to XMP, before you start syncing those images, that metadata will be read by the cloud and synced to the other LRCC apps. But that's a one-way, one-time deal, as ongoing changes are not synced to/from Classic.

I think @99jon has already covered your other questions, but if you have any other queries let us know.

[SidewinderX]

Thanks for the comprehensive response!

I'll say I don't understand the logic of just syncing Smart Previews to the cloud -- why not get the original RAW files up there as well so it actually serves as a cloud?

Now I have a new problem -- I fired up LR Classic to work with some photos, and this error pops up: "Problem syncing with current catalog - This appears to be a duplicate or automatically created backup of your catalog. As it may not be current, sync has been disabled..." -- any idea what's going on here? Is this some issue with having migrated to Lightroom CC and the photos not wanting to sync back to LR Classic?

[Jim Wilde]

Wish I could give you an explanation as to why Classic (and CC2015 before) only uploads Smart Previews, but I can't recall ever seeing one. I just know that's how it works, and I expect it won't change. I assume there's a good reason, I just don't know what it is.

Regarding the catalog issue, have you synced anything since you did the migration, or was this your first attempt since the migration? Sync is supposed to be disabled automatically using Classic after migrating the catalog, but it should be possible to resume it by enabling it in the Activity Centre (hover over the ID Plate area and a downward pointing arrowhead should appear, click on it to reveal the Activity Centre).