Camera Raw workflow with smart object and lightroom

[rod mclean]

I have always adjusted the color space and image sizing in camera raw workflow options without issue but suddenly the changes are not applying to the image.  I want to change my adobe rgb 8bit to cmyk 16bit but it does not change.

I have deleted and reinstalled photoshop cc18, I have deleted all adobe preferences, and I am running out of options.

If I go to photoshop and open as smart object, the original raw image directly from the HD there is not an issue, I can adjust the color space and image sizing in camera raw and it applies to the smart object.

However if I select the image in Lightroom and open it via "edit in.... open as smart object" I am unable to change the default settings.  I can change the color space in the workflow box but it does not apply to the final smart object.

Additionally if I save the smart object psd file to a separate location and reopen it in photoshop I am still unable to adjust the color space of image sizing in camera raw workflow.

So someplace within the most recent updates there must be an option that is not allowing me to override light rooms default settings

[D Fosse]

To be clear - the embedded raw file inside the smart object is still a raw file. It has no color space.

The parent smart object, the container, has its own color space which is independent from the content. This is governed by the general policies of the authoring application. So the setting in Lightroom "Edit In" is moot.

Since the raw file in the smart object will be opened by ACR into Photoshop - even if it originally came from Lightroom - the ACR settings for color space apply when it's opened.

Am I misunderstanding what you're trying to accomplish?

[rod mclean]

yes in theory, a raw file as a smart object should be completely editable, thats why I am banging me head against the wall. 

I am using lightroom to view and select images and photoshop to edit and manipulate.

In lightroom I select the image, select edit in, and open as smart object in photoshop CC18. 

The smart object/raw file opens in cc18 with the lightroom external editing presets (adobe rgb/8bits)  

With camera raw I adjust the exposure, etc and assign the color space ( adobe rgb to cmyk and 8bit to 16bit) in work flow.

This has always been a non issue, the adjustments and color space are adjusted and applied to the smart object.

Currently I am unable to adjust the color space in camera raw, its as if it is locked to the original lightroom preset.

I have tried saving the file as a psd to a new location, reopening it, and editing it in camera raw and still the same issue, unable to change the color space.

Now to confuse me even more if I open that original raw file directly from the HD into photoshop as a smart object I can edit the color space in camera raw without issue.

and this has never been issue in the past, something has changed recently

[davescm]

Hi Rod

You said "With camera raw I adjust the exposure, etc and assign the color space ( adobe rgb to cmyk and 8bit to 16bit) in work flow."

This adjusts the image  within the smart object. The output settings really do nothing as the smart object will be rendered in the overall image document color space.

If you re-open the smart object your adjustments and settings are still there.  The bit depth and color space of the overall document outside the smart object of course remains unaltered. That is the way smart objects are supposed to work - an openable and editable container which presents as a single layer with the color space and bit depth of the overall image document that contains that smart object.

Dave

[rod mclean]

yes exactly that is why I am working with smart objects, it should change the color space and bit depth within the smart object but it doesn't, I am unable to edit the color space with camera raw of a raw image/smart object that was opened in photoshop via light room.  somehow lightroom is embedding an uneditable color space profile in the smart object, which obviously makes zero sense. 

I view the image in lightroom, select "edit in" "open as smart object in CC18" it opens in photoshop as a smart object with the default lightroom rgb, 8bit, color space profile.  I double click on the smart object to adjust in camera raw.  I select cmyk... and 16bit in workflow, click ok, the progress bar says preparing smart object.  I check the image color profile and it is still the original rgb, did not change to a cmyk 16bit. 

I am assuming it is either a glitch in the software or somewhere with in the newest updates there is the option to essentially embed a locked color profile via lightroom.

Thanks for your help trying to sort this one out.

[davescm]

In your second paragraph you say you check the image profile. Check it where?

Inside the smart object it is still a raw file. Outside the smart object the bit depth and color space are set by the overall document not by the smart object contents.

Dave

[D Fosse]

Let's back up a bit. I just double-checked how this actually works, and I find no inconsistencies here.

The Lightroom Preference for external editing sets color space and bit depth. The factory default happens to be ProPhoto 16 bit, but it can be changed by the user. It has to be RGB, Lightroom does not support CMYK.

When the smart object opens in Photoshop it maintains the Lightroom settings, including color space and bit depth. This applies both to the master document, and the ACR workflow setting in the raw file inside the smart object.

These two color settings can be changed independently in Photoshop. If you open the smart object into ACR, you can change the workflow settings - including into CMYK, since ACR unlike Lightroom does support CMYK. This setting should stick. But note! This doesn't mean you have a "CMYK raw file" there. It's still a raw file without a color space, it's just an instruction to ACR how to open it into rendered RGB form! As long as it remains a raw file, this setting isn't really relevant.

The master document, however, still has the color space and bit depth set in Lightroom. This is how it's supposed to work - Photoshop should always preserve incoming profiles.

---

So - is this not how it's working on your end? If not, you may have corrupt preferences. But actually I don't see anything in your description that indicates anything wrong, unless I misunderstood something there.

[davescm]

Hi

If I am reading the OP's post correctly then I read it that he has no issue with the smart object coming into Photoshop with the Lightroom preset bit depth and color space. However his expectation is that the master document should change it's bit depth and color space if he then opens and edits the content of the smart object.

Photoshop cannot work that way. You could have several smart objects in a single file each with the contents set differently. The last thing you would want is for the "master" document bit depth/color space to change if the content of any of those smart objects was updated.

Dave

[D Fosse]

davescm  wrote

his expectation is that the master document should change it's bit depth and color space if he then opens and edits the content of the smart object.

OK. In that case he just misunderstands how smart objects work. I had a feeling that was the case, I just couldn't put my finger on it.

[davescm]

Hopefully Rod will clarify if I've read it incorrectly

Dave