Light room color space default, unable to change in camera raw workflow

[rod mclean]

I have always adjusted the color space and image sizing in camera raw workflow options without issue but suddenly the changes are not applying to the image.  I want to change my adobe rgb 8bit to cmyk 16bit but it does not change.

I have deleted and reinstalled photoshop cc18, I have deleted all adobe preferences, and I am running out of options.

If I go to photoshop and open as smart object, the original raw image directly from the HD there is not an issue, I can adjust the color space and image sizing in camera raw and it applies to the smart object.

However if I select the image in Lightroom and open it via "edit in.... open as smart object" I am unable to change the default settings.  I can change the color space in the workflow box but it does not apply to the final smart object.

Additionally if I save the smart object psd file to a separate location and reopen it in photoshop I am still unable to adjust the color space of image sizing in camera raw workflow.

So someplace within the most recent updates there must be an option that is not allowing me to override light rooms default settings

[dj_paige]

Lightroom does not let you change the color space that it works in.

[rod mclean]

Thanks but I am not trying to change the color space in lightroom.

I view the image in lightroom, select "edit in" "open as smart object in CC18" it opens in photoshop as a smart object with the default lightroom rgb, 8bit, color space profile.  I double click on the smart object to adjust in camera raw.  I select cmyk... and 16bit in workflow, click ok, the progress bar says preparing smart object.  I check the image color profile and it is still the original rgb, did not change to a cmyk 16bit. 

I am assuming it is either a glitch in the software or somewhere with in the newest updates there is the option to essentially embed a locked color profile via lightroom.

[johnrellis]

I think this is purely a Photoshop issue: Start PS, do File > Open As Smart Object, open a raw, double-click the smart-object layer to open in Camera Raw, change it to CMYK by clicking on the color space at the bottom of the image, then close Camera Raw.  Photoshop still shows the original color space, not CMYK.

I recommend you repost in the Photoshop forum: Photoshop .

[rod mclean]

I am actually leaning more towards a lightroom issue because if I open the original raw file from the HD with PS I have complete control over the smart object in camera raw.  It is only when opening the file in PS via lightroom that I am unable to edit the color profile.   This has only just become an issue.

[johnrellis]

Following the steps that you posted before, Re: Light room color space default, unable to change in camera raw workflow

whether you do Open As Smart object in Photoshop or Edit As Smart Object in LR, the same behavior occurs.  Given that, why do you think the problem is with LR?

In detail:

1. In PS, do File > Open As Smart Object and select a raw file.

2. The raw file opens in Camera Raw; click OK.

3. In the Layers panel, double click the smart-object layer to open it in Camera Raw.

4. Observe at the bottom of Camera Raw that it thinks the color space is ProPhoto RGB:

5. Click on ProPhoto RGB to open the Workflow Options dialog. Change the color space to Generic CMYK Profile and click OK.

6. Observe that Camera Raw now thinks the image is in CMYK:

7. Click OK in Camera Raw.

8. Observe that the lower-left status bar of PS shows the color space as ProPhoto RGB, not Generic CMYK:

[Jao vdL]

Changing the color space of the embedded smart object should NOT change the colorspace of the entire document. It only changes that of the embedded document. To change the main document, just change the mode on the document itself. It will save as cmyk tiff then without issue. Of course Lightroom will no longer open the document as it does not support cmyk.

[rod mclean]

John,

Thanks for your feedback.

Yes the steps you mention are exactly what I am doing but I am getting different results depending on how I open the file.

If I view the file in Lightroom, select photo in menu, select edit in, select open as a smart object in PS. 

The file will open in PS as a smart object with the base profile that I have created in lightroom preferences under external editing. 

The profile is prophoto rgb, 16bit, 300dpi. 

I go through the steps you mention to change it to a cmyk profile but as you show in step 8 the profile does not actually change to cmyk as it should and always has.

I am unable to change the color space profile to cmyk or the image size, it's as if it is some how locked. 

Even if I save that file as a psd in a new folder, then reopen it directly in PS I am still unable to edit the color space in camera raw.

If I however do exactly the steps you describe, opening directly in PS, the final step 8, the profile will change correctly to a cmyk, 16 bit file, exactly what I need it to be.

[Conrad C · Accepted solution]

I'm thinking along the same lines as johnrellis​​ and his helpful screen shots, but with a slightly different angle on the question.

What's probably confusing here is that when Photoshop and Lightroom create a new Photoshop document from a Smart Object, they handle it differently:

• When you’re in Photoshop and you use Open as Smart Object, Photoshop takes your Camera Raw settings and creates the containing Photoshop document based on those settings. Both the smart object and its containing Photoshop document are CMYK from the beginning, because Photoshop fully supports CMYK.
• When you’re in Lightroom and you use Edit in Photoshop as Smart Object, Lightroom takes its External Editing preferences and creates the containing Photoshop document based on those. Lightroom doesn't have an external editing preference for CMYK, so the default for both the smart object and its containing Photoshop document are RGB.

Then, in the Lightroom-created version, you change the Camera Raw smart object profile to CMYK. What happens is that you’re changing the profile for the Camera Raw smart object, but not for the containing Photoshop document. That's why the Photoshop document created by Lightroom is still RGB even though the smart object is now CMYK. In this case you must also use Edit > Convert to Profile to convert the Photoshop document to CMYK as well.

The containing Photoshop document created by Open as Smart Object (from Photoshop) started as CMYK from the beginning, but Lightroom can't do CMYK so its Photoshop document cannot be CMYK from the beginning.

This is a subtle difference in workflow, but it's the key to understanding why the containing document profile isn't changing. The profile of each smart object only applies to the smart object contents, and the Photoshop document profile is independent and handled separately.

I think the way it works is that at output time, Photoshop converts the colors of all smart objects from whatever their individual profiles are to the Photoshop document profile and bit depth.

[Jao vdL]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Conrad+C  wrote

think the way it works is that at output time, Photoshop converts the colors of all smart objects from whatever their individual profiles are to the Photoshop document profile and bit depth.

That is correct and is how Photoshop has always worked with smart objects. It is an embedded file inside the main document. Changing the color space of the embedded image does not affect the main document which could easily have many more layers and smart objects embedded.

[rod mclean]

Thanks all,

Conrad I was reworking what Jao and John had mentioned trying different variations and was arriving at the same conclusion but couldn't understand why exactly.  Thanks for the clarification. 

What is baffling to me though is this has always been my workflow, view and open files via lightroom, edit color space in camera raw.

Did lightroom previously take the camera raw settings?

Thanks again for your help.

[Jao vdL]

As far as I know this is how it has always worked. The only time that camera raw changes the color space of the main document is on the first open when it actually shows you camera raw and before the actual document is created. If you later go back into camera raw, it only changes the color space of the embedded image and not of the container. The reason is probably that the smart object is only one of many possible layers in the document that will all be in the main document's color space. You can embed smart objects of any color space in a document and Photoshop simply converts them on the fly. I just tried and created a single document with 3 smart object layers in Lab, prophotoRGB, and one in CMYK.

[rod mclean]

Thanks, yeah I just did the same.  Also realized that dragging a rgb smart object into a cmyk doc it did not ask if I wanted to convert the file to the new color space as it does with a non-smartobject layer.  Hence the confusion.  I generally start with a new doc and add smart objects via lightroom, always editing the smart object file in camera raw prior to dragging it to the new doc, just assuming that I had to have the same color space.  Never realizing that all this time the smart object was not actually converting to cmyk but as the document was already a cmyk profile I never noticed.  Geesh,

Thanks again!

Rod