Printer madness

[bunkieboy]

I have a Canon pimxa 7520 bottom-of-the-line printer. I used LR 5 on Windows 10. I noted in the instruction books that to get the

best prints you need to go to the manufacturer and get an ICC profile. I called Canon about this issue. They said it was a "second tier"

issue and they switched me to a bright sounding guy who did NOT show me where to find any ICC profile, but instead got me to go to drivers and printers

on my computer and under media type select the kind of paper I planned to use. Does anyone know if there is indeed an ICC profile for Canon?

There's more to this problem? Under print job, in profile, I avoid using "Managed by printer". But in the second section of the profile drop-down box, I'm given

a choice between three things:

                                                 Canon mg7500 series GL2

                                                 Canon mg 7500 series GL3

                                                  srgbIec61966-2.1

Because I have no ICC profile and therefore can't use "other" and because  I don't want "managed by printer" I'm forced to select one of these .Does anyone have

the vaguest idea what these are or what I am to do to get the equivalent of an ICC profile?

    ALSO, I keep getting this warning "When selecting managed by printer, remember to enable color management in the printer driver dialogue box." I am not selecting "managed by printer" and I think I've tried but have not been able to find any color management box to enable in my computer.

  Appreciate any help. I just pray I don't get left in that gray area between what LR people know and Canon people know.

[JP Hess]

Since you have a bottom of the line printer, there are no profiles available for it. Canon provides profiles for certain printers. For instance, I use a Canon Pixma Pro 100 which is one of their bottom of the line "professional" photo printers, and Canon provides a number of paper profiles, as does Red River. I think your best option is to let Lightroom manage the color and hope for the best. I don't have the printer driver for your printer so I don't know if you even have the option to turn off color management in the driver. In your situation, however, you could configure it the other way in Lightroom and let the printer manage the color and compare the results. You might get better results that way under the circumstances.

[Bill Sprague]

Hoping to add to the conversation.....

The instructions for the printer are here:  http://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/1/0300015851/02/MG7500ser_OnlineManual_Win_EN_V02.pdf

Canon never seems to make it simple!  However, on page 441 there is a screen where you turn off the printers color management.  Then in the Lightroom print choices you can elect to have Lightroom manage the color.  

From experience, I can say if both are trying to manage color at the same time, the prints will be awful!  Based only on appearance, I like my prints better when I let the printer manage the color and turn it off in Lightroom.  That is counter to most advice!

A version of "ICC profiles" seems to be somewhat disguised.  When you select the paper in the Printer Profile, it apparently does a version of profiles. 

If not already obvious, pressing the Page Set Up or Printer buttons in the Print module, followed by pressing the Properties button gets you to the Canon print driver where you can turn off or on the manual control of color.

Good luck!  Even bottom end printers from Canon now do a great job of color printing.

[JP Hess]

It's possible to choose the type of paper in the printer driver. However, I don't believe there are specific paper profiles for that printer. But if the user chooses the right type of paper they should certainly be able to get acceptable prints from that printer.

[bunkieboy]

I'd like to thank both Jim Hess and you for lightening my misery. It'll take me a while

to digest your responses.

I do have a few more questions if you'd be so kind:

1)Is color management in the Canon controlled by the checkbox that says "Color/intensity manual adjustment? If I check the box,

does that mean I'm managing the color with the printer.

2)If I have the printer manage the color during printing, do I want this box on or off?

3) Could you tell me what series gl2 or gl3 in profile means? Does that mean glossy paper?

4)Do you know what srgb means in profile?

5)Using LR as the controller of printing, I got this message:"When selecting managed by printer, remember to enable

   color management in the printer driver dialogue box. Black point compensation is used in this print". I don't get why,

when I think I was managing the color via LR, I got this message. But what is this black point stuff?

Thank you, dear angels of help.

[Bill Sprague]

bunkieboy  wrote

1) Is color management in the Canon controlled by the checkbox that says "Color/intensity manual adjustment? If I check the box,

does that mean I'm managing the color with the printer.

2) If I have the printer manage the color during printing, do I want this box on or off?

3) Could you tell me what series gl2 or gl3 in profile means? Does that mean glossy paper?

4) Do you know what srgb means in profile?

5) Using LR as the controller of printing, I got this message:"When selecting managed by printer, remember to enable color management in the printer driver dialogue box. Black point compensation is used in this print". I don't get why, when I think I was managing the color via LR, I got this message. But what is this black point stuff?

Jim is absolutly right when he writes, "The main thing you don't want to do is let Lightroom AND the printer manage the color."  He adds that, like most, he prefers to have Lightroom manage the color.   He and I have the same Canon Pro-100 printer.   I too am very satisfied with it.

(Due to rebates, promotions and included supplies the Pro-100 is often nearly free in the US.   Right now the price is $400, but it comes with a $250 rebate and $150 worth of ink and paper.  After rebate, ink and paper, the printer itself is "free".)

After desperately struggling with some skin tones in a picture of my granddaughter one day, I tried it with the printer managing the color.  And, it worked much better for me.  I now have the printer manage the color all the time.   I took a screen shot to show exactly how I do it.  It should be the same with your Canon printer.  

Your questions:

1.   The ovals show the two "switches" for making the printer manage the color instead of Lightroom.  The arrow points to the button that opens up the "printer driver".

2.   Look at the ovals.  On the printer check "Auto" and leave "Manual" unchecked.  If you check manual, you have to have Lightroom control the color like Jim does. 

3.   gl2 and gl3 are "profiles". but I don't know where they came from or what papers they apply to.  The may be included with Lightroom.  If you elect to have the printer manage the color, they won't be offered as choices. 

4.  Here is a long article on color that includes a description of srgb Color management - Wikipedia .  Part of my motivation to have the printer manage the color is that I don't have to fully understand that article!

5.  The box in the photo lists names of Canon branded paper.  What I think is being done is the equivalent of picking an ICC profile within Lightroom when Lightroom is managing the color.  I use Canon paper because, due to Canon promotions for ink, I've stock piled a lot of Canon paper. 

[bunkieboy]

I would like to thank Jim and you for your generous help. I think we could close the matter for now if you would just tell me how to

get to the page you have photographed and which are to give me the choice between "auto" and "manual". I can't find

that dialogue box on my computer.

[Bill Sprague]

The green arrow in the above screen shot shows the button in the Lightroom Print module that opens the Canon printer driver software. 

[JP Hess]

Do you have the Canon Pixma Pro-100? That is what is being illustrated. The printer driver for your printer could be very different.

[Bill Sprague]

Jim,

I do have the Pro-100 and used it for the screen shot.  Before I did, I looked in the manual for the OPs printer that I put in the third post in this topic.  Go to the third post, open the link and go to the page number.  The picture in the manual is a little fuzzy, but seems to be the same.  I felt that a screen shot of the image in the PDF manual would not be clear enough nor could I make the arrow, circles and box to (try to) show what to do.

Bill

[JP Hess]

Yeah, it does seem to be the same. But the instructions aren't very clear in my opinion. I think if I was trying to print with that printer I would probably (after thinking about it) configure Lightroom to let the printer manage the color and then make a couple of small prints with different options in the driver. I don't quite understand the instructions in the manual. That's not saying much though.

[Bill Sprague]

When I got the Pro-100 I was learning Lightroom 4 from Julieanne Kost.  Her instructions were very clear.  Turn off color management in the printer and turn it on in LR.  Trouble was that the Pro-100 was so new.  All of her instructions assumed her students had Epsons and it was easy.  The Pro-100 manual was confusing and never said "this is how you turn it off".

My first Pro-100 prints were terrible because I was trying to manage color Julieanne's way and Canon was managing it their way.  It was a fight!

I go against the digital grain with printing.  It can be technical with calibration and precision.  I don't do it that way.  I eyeball it likeI did when I had a color darkroom in my house.  If it looks right, it is right.   

[JP Hess]

Well, I don't "do it by the book" either. I've never hardware calibrated my monitor. But my prints are pretty darn close. I can let Lightroom manage the color or I can let the printer manage the color, and the results are identical. I really don't think you want to know how I "calibrate" my monitor.

[Bill Sprague]

I don't have a monitor!  I have a laptop with a screen targeted at gamers and a 24 inch Samsung TV with a monitor input.  The gamer ASUS laptop has the strength to make 4K video editing fun.  The TV was too cheap to pass up.   Some day I might get a "real" computer but I spend too much on cameras and travel to have any left for that.

[JP Hess]

Well, I'm kind of winding down on everything right now. I'm taking care of my ailing wife, so travel isn't in our plans at all. Not spending much on anything hobby-wise anymore. Don't misunderstand, not complaining. Just dealing with life as it comes.

[bunkieboy]

Jim, thanks for your helpful response to my problem, Could you just tell

me if you would consider the pixma pro 100 an easier machine to use

regarding colors or has it got its complexities too?

Thanks,

Al

[JP Hess]

Your question has its own set of complexities. You need to have a basic understanding of how to use the printer and how to use Lightroom for printing. In your previous question you asked what srgb means. That would be in contrast to Adobe RGB or Pro photo RGB. These are different profiles. Srgb Is probably the most common profile that is used on the web and for printing with online printing services. I don't want to get too technical here. I like the Canon Pixma Pro 100. But like any printer it's necessary to understand how to manage the color. I normally turn off color management on the printer and enable color management in Lightroom. But that still involves choosing the right paper type in the printer driver and then the exact paper profile in Lightroom. It really isn't that difficult once you get the routine established. The main thing you don't want to do is let Lightroom AND the printer manage The color. That just ruins the prints. The Canon Pixma Pro-100 has produced outstanding prints for me from a variety of different papers. I've used a lot of different papers from the Red River paper company. They have paper profiles for all of their papers specific for that printer. I also have some Canon paper, and I have their profiles as well. And as long as I choose the right profile the printer always seems to produce exactly what I expect.