Best workflow for editing mp4 footage

[landrvr1]

I've read a lot of threads on this, but many of them are just way over my head.  I use PrPro and AE on a regular basis, but always with individual png frames created in Max/Vray.  Never had to worry about using footage from other sources.

I have a number of mp4 files that I need to edit and then re-export, but I'm clueless as to what the most efficient workflow would be?  Do you somehow 'unwrap' the mp4 clips, then edit?  Any assistance would be appreciated!

[Jeff Bugbee]

Premiere and AE should be able to handle any mp4 file natively. Just import them, add to your timeline, and edit! Your workflow will depend on what exactly you need to do but there's no need to unwrap anything.

[landrvr1]

Ah, okay.  Tnx!  The quality goes down noticeably when I export with the same settings in order to keep the file size close to the original.  No way around that, I guess!

[Jeff Bugbee]

The only way the quality would go down noticeably would be if you are exporting in a lower bitrate than your source or if you are exporting in a higher resolution than your source.

[SAFEHARBOR11]

"No way around that, I guess!"

Not true. There are many things you can do to improve export quality. Please post a screen shot of the Export Settings used so we can check the specs you exported with. If somewhere in the workflow the settings are off a little, such as frame size, frame rate, progressive vs. interlaced, there are many factors that can affect final quality, of course up to and including specific export settings used.

Thanks

Jeff Pulera

Safe Harbor Computers

[landrvr1]

Here's the info for the original clip - which is a conversion of raw Super8mm footage using the Wolverine MovieMaker Pro unit.  There are no other export options offered, so stuck with this:

Format                                   : MPEG-4

Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2

Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/avc1/mp42)

File size                                : 202 MiB

Duration                                 : 2 min 50 s

Overall bit rate                         : 9 936 kb/s

Movie_More                               : CarDV-TURNKEY

Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-01-01 03:08:05

Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-01-01 03:08:05

Origin                                   : NVT-IM

Video

ID                                       : 1

Format                                   : AVC

Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec

Format profile                           : High@L4.1

Format settings                          : CABAC / 1 Ref Frames

Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes

Format settings, RefFrames               : 1 frame

Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=15

Codec ID                                 : avc1

Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding

Duration                                 : 2 min 50 s

Bit rate                                 : 9 830 kb/s

Width                                    : 1 440 pixels

Height                                   : 1 080 pixels

Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3

Frame rate mode                          : Constant

Frame rate                               : 20.000 FPS

Color space                              : YUV

Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0

Bit depth                                : 8 bits

Scan type                                : Progressive

Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.316

Stream size                              : 199 MiB (99%)

Language                                 : English

Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-01-01 03:08:05

Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-01-01 03:08:05

I'm exporting at h.264, using the match source-high bitrate Preset.  That gives me a VBR 1pass, with a target of 10Mbps and Max of 12.

Here's the details on my exported clip - which has been trimmed in length:

Complete name                            : D:\0088_2.mp4

Format                                   : MPEG-4

Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2

Codec ID                                 : mp42 (mp42/mp41)

File size                                : 48.1 MiB

Duration                                 : 40 s 165 ms

Overall bit rate                         : 10.0 Mb/s

Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-06-08 17:02:04

Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-06-08 17:02:05

TIM                                      : 00;00;00;00

TSC                                      : 24000

TSZ                                      : 1001

Video

ID                                       : 1

Format                                   : AVC

Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec

Format profile                           : Main@L4.1

Format settings                          : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames

Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes

Format settings, RefFrames               : 4 frames

Codec ID                                 : avc1

Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding

Duration                                 : 40 s 165 ms

Bit rate                                 : 10.0 Mb/s

Width                                    : 1 440 pixels

Height                                   : 1 080 pixels

Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3

Frame rate mode                          : Constant

Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS

Standard                                 : NTSC

Color space                              : YUV

Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0

Bit depth                                : 8 bits

Scan type                                : Progressive

Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.269

Stream size                              : 48.1 MiB (100%)

Language                                 : English

Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-06-08 17:02:04

Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-06-08 17:02:04

Color range                              : Limited

Color primaries                          : BT.709

Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709

Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

The quality of export is noticeably degraded.  I'm sure that I'm not doing something correct, lol.  I see I didn't match my fps, but it's close.

Let me know if you need any other info.

[SAFEHARBOR11]

Yes, changing frame rate WILL mess with the quality, since it somehow has to add 4 more frames per second so it has to blend or create from adjacent frames, depending on options set in Export Settings panel, which by the way, can we see please?

Thanks!

Jeff

[SAFEHARBOR11]

PS - was involved a while back with another thread regarding that movie transfer rig, very interested in getting one someday! We did discover that the Neat Video Denoiser  plug-in would really do magic on the captured movie to remove grain and really improve the image

Thanks

Jeff

[landrvr1]

I'll check out that Neat Video Denoiser, thanks for that tip.

I'm actually not certain how I can change the fps to the native 20 that the hardware spits out!

Here's a screen cap of the settings:  

[landrvr1]

Encoding is gray-out as I've not changed anything there.

[SAFEHARBOR11]

Remove check mark at right of Frame Rate and manually set to "20" and see if that helps with export quality

Thanks

Jeff

[landrvr1]

It won't let me manually enter in a frame rate - only the drop down preset rates! 

[SAFEHARBOR11 · Accepted solution]

Okay, I see what you mean there! You could Interpret Footage as 24fps and edit/export as 24fps. Would change the speed a bit.

May take some experimentation to find best workflow

[landrvr1]

You were dead on right.  That mishmash of frame rates was the culprit.  However, I interpret the footage is 18fps (typical Super8mm speed), not 24.  Once I export as 24fps the speed seems correct and the quality is barely affected.

Tnx!

[Jeff Bugbee]

Can you upload a sample of one of the 20fps clips? That is an extraordinary non-standard frame rate.

[landrvr1]

Jeff, the 20fps is bizarre because it's coming from hardware that converts 8mm and Super8mm to mp4 files.  heh.

[SAFEHARBOR11]

If the math in my head is correct, the 18 to 24 looks good as it perhaps just duplicates every third frame to get the 6 extra frames? The math works out much better than 20 to 24. Good idea to interpret as 18fps.

Put the exported file onto a new timeline in Premiere and review frame by frame, see how the cadence comes out (which frames are duplicated)

Here's the before and after pics (source from other user) when I applied Neat Video Denoiser.

Jeff

[landrvr1]

SAFEHARBOR, thanks for your assist on this.  Neat Video Denoiser looks fantastic.  I'll check it out.  I've actually moved the project over to After Effects - which also has a decent denoiser.