How to do a very small crop ?

[madbrain76]

I have a 36MP image from my DSLR (K-1 II). There is very small area that I want to do a crop from.

If I zoom in to 1:1 or greater, I can easily see the part I want to crop. The problem is that when I click the crop tool, Lightroom reverts to showing the entire image on the screen. Ie., it zooms it out completely. At that point, I'm no longer able to see the area I want to crop at all.

I can do this type of crop very easily in Windows Paint, by selecting view, 100% (or greater) and then cropping. How can I do the same in Lightroom Classic ?

[Ian Lyons]

Use the Navigator (top left corner) to view the crop rather than the main content area.

[madbrain76]

The navigator has no effect while in the middle of cropping. Clicking "fit", "fill", "1:1", "4:1", etc. does not change the area that is displayed on the screen . The entire image is still displayed on the screen. That appears to be because the entire image is preselected by default in LR. I need to zoom in first, then select the area, then crop, since the cropping area is so small as to be invisible otherwise.

In Windows Paint, nothing is preselected by default. I can zoom in, scroll through the part of the image that I need, highlight it, and then crop.

In Lightroom, the process is extremely confusing to me.

[Ian Lyons]

In absence of 1:1 cropping you can use the Navigator as described below, keep on complaining or submit a feature request at Lightroom: Crop to specific pixel dimensions | Photoshop Family Customer Community

or Lightroom: Crop tool - display the cropped size | Photoshop Family Customer Community

Crop the area as best you can in Fit or Fill. The Navigator now displays the cropped area at much higher magnification than fit or fill. You can tweak the crop to taste. It's not real time and will require going back and forth.

[madbrain76]

Ian,

Going back and forth unfortunately does not help, because each time the crop tool is clicked, LR reverts to the full size image, unfortunately. It would only help if I exported the first crop to a bitmap file, and then did a crop from that. But when working with a virtual copy, it is very tedious.

I have attached a video of an example of doing both crops, in LR and Windows Paint respectively.

I'm trying to crop a single white cat hair on top of strings - about 50 microns. In the full image, it is barely visible, even on my 4K display.

I have a wider angle image of this also at 28mm where I can still see the same cat hair on piano strings. As well as more telephoto image too...

Here is the crop process in Lightroom :

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1BOxA3S51qEt8Fin99V7JkdrZTzz8GU2y

And crop process in Windows Paint :

WindowsPaintCrop.mp4 - Google Drive

(much easier in Paint, takes half the time, and the second video even includes starting Paint from desktop)

[Ian Lyons]

madbrain76  wrote

(much easier in Paint, takes half the time, and the second video even includes starting Paint from desktop)

It's easier in Paint because it supports the type of crop you want/need. Lr doesn't, even after 12 years and multiple requests!

[Bob Somrak]

I can't imagine you need the file to be RAW if you are cropping that small.  If not just Crop tightly in the general area, export, import the cropped photo and recrop.

[madbrain76]

Bob,

I don't need it to be RAW. But I would like to do it in one step, not multiple export/import/crop/recrop . I think those are unnecessary.

[JP Hess]

If it was my project, I would send the image to the Photoshop and resize it using the new option in Photoshop, Preserve Details 2.0, and enlarge the image appropriately so that I could have the cropped area the size that I need. Then I would crop and save the image back to Lightroom. The new option in Photoshop is really quite effective. I have used it several times and have found it to be quite good. You're going to have to use some external process. I think the one I'm suggesting is about simple and straightforward as you'll find.

[madbrain76]

Jim,

Thanks. I'm sure PhotoShop is very effective. I'm not saying it's not straightforward. It may well be. I'm just not a Photoshop user. I don't generally edit my images much. Cropping is very basic functionality. I can export to Paint obviously - which I already know how to use. I was looking for a solution from within Lightroom. It's hard to accept the very cheap perpetual license Corel software I own (Aftershot, Paintshop) can all do this, and the expensive subscription-only Lightroom cannot ... LR certainly has a lot of good features, or I wouldn't have subscribed, but the lack of something so simple and universal is really dumbfounding.

[JP Hess]

madbrain76  wrote

Jim,

Thanks. I'm sure PhotoShop is very effective. I'm not saying it's not straightforward. It may well be. I'm just not a Photoshop user. I don't generally edit my images much. Cropping is very basic functionality. I can export to Paint obviously - which I already know how to use. I was looking for a solution from within Lightroom. It's hard to accept the very cheap perpetual license Corel software I own (Aftershot, Paintshop) can all do this, and the expensive subscription-only Lightroom cannot ... LR certainly has a lot of good features, or I wouldn't have subscribed, but the lack of something so simple and universal is really dumbfounding.

I just thought that, since have subscribed to Lightroom Classic CC you are entitled to download and use Photoshop CC at no extra cost. I just assumed that you had already installed it. I guess that's what I get for assuming.

And it's a pretty simple step. Open the image in Photoshop, run the resize option, close and save the image. The enlarged image goes back to Lightroom. Pretty seamless, in my opinion. Unfortunately, there are some things you need other software to do the right way.

[madbrain76]

JimHess,

Yes, I am entitled to a license for Photoshop, and do indeed have installed. I have used it a grand total of one time so far, to remove an unsightly fence in one picture. It's fair to say that it is a much more intimidating and less intuitive program compared to Lightroom. I just don't have the time or inclination to learn yet another program. I don't want to depend on it for my regular workflow which is pretty basic and that I feel Lightroom should meet. I don't do tiny crops that often fortunately, but it does happens.

Ultimately, I bought the Photography subscription primarily for Lightroom Classic, though. I would be much happier with a non-subscription one-time license, so I could decide to upgrade only when the features I want are added - like new camera profiles, lenses, this zoom crop features, etc. I have only had LR for a little over a month so far. I have explored other programs like ON1 and Corel Aftershot, but they fell short in other areas. Maybe they will improve faster and I will ditch LR next year.

[JP Hess]

Okay, that's fine. But just in case you'd like to see how Photoshop can do it, here is a link to a YouTube video. Look at it if you wish, ignore it if you are not interested at all.

How To Enlarge Images in Photoshop CC 2018 - Best Way To Upscale Photos - YouTube

I promise that I won't belabor the issue. It's just that you really do have a good tool at your disposal if you want to take a little time to learn how to use it. This is my last word on the topic.

[wa-so]

He doesn't even have to crop in PS, he can use ACR cropping the image.

ACR will write the crop action into the .xmp file and LR can open the already cropped image.

Anyway, it's quite ridiculous that ACR is able to zoom in while cropping and LR can't do this even after all the complaints over the years.

The programmers just seem to ignore us users.

[JP Hess]

OK.

[Rob_Cullen]

I am curious!

Your video shows you using the tedious method of selecting and dragging the crop 'handles' on the corners and then shifting the image behind the re-sized crop lines.

Do you know that you can simply use the mouse to freehand drag a crop 'window' on an image, in the same manner you did it with MS-Paint?

ie. Press R, Click and drag the crop window, Enter.  (Under TWO seconds!)

For the images you show- this should be very easy with Lightroom.

[madbrain76]

WobertC,

Thanks for that tip. I did not know it was possible to freehand drag. The corner method is indeed incredibly tedious. I knew I had to be missing something !

Still, this doesn't really resolve my issue, though. In Paint, I am able to view a fully magnified view (1:1), and then freehand to make the selection and crop. In LR, I can't figure out how to do that. The "Navigator" on the top left has no effect while in the crop tool.

So, even with Freehand, it remains tedious in LR because I'm seeing only about 6MP out of the 36MP of the image - and the detail is barely visible when the image is shrunk to fit the screen.

Is there a way to magnify and then freehand crop in LR ? That is what I'm actually looking for.

[madbrain76]

The other majorly confusing thing is that after I hit R and freehand, if I then want to resize that crop, I click the corners of the selection, hold the mouse, and move it, and then it moves not just the selection, but the entire image behind it. Makes no sense why both need to move and not just the selection. Is there a way to resize only the selection without having the background move ?

[Rob_Cullen]

As answered by posts above- The Crop tool, when selected, will always show the full image and not a zoomed view in the main window- yes a limitation! and an Adobe 'request'.

My Navigator window shows me a preview of the small area of my drawn crop window. Drag the left-hand panels wider for a larger navigator window.

Honestly, never noticed the image move behind the crop window when dragging the handles (rarely crop like this!) but did note that the 'diagonally opposite' corner of the window is always fixed on the image. I guess that dragging to a larger crop window would have to pull the full image into view on the screen, hence the moving.

[madbrain76]

Dragging the left panel wider shows a bigger navigator window, but at the cost of making the center image smaller, and thus making it even harder to find the detail to crop. Can't really win.

I still don't see why the background image has to move, since the background image is always sized to fit within the screen. Making it scroll away adds nothing but confusion. If it was magnified, yes, I could see the need for scrolling - which works very well and very intuitively in Windows Paint, BTW (see video posted above).

Zooming & scrolling works just as well as Paint in LR. The problem is all of it is undone when cropping. Sigh. Mind boggling that LR can do so many complicated things, but can't do this simple one well.

[cmgap]

Tap the lock icon to unlock the aspect ratio and you will be able to control the area that you want to crop.

[johnrellis]

Here's the feature request for zooming with the crop tool: Lightroom: Enable Zoom with Crop Tool | Photoshop Family Customer Community . Please click Vote and Follow in the upper-right corner.  Adobe product developers actively participate in the official feedback forum but are rarely seen here, so they won't see whatever you post here. 

While it has been a long time since that feature request was posted, and Adobe has poor record of responding to users over the last many years, since the release of LR 7, they have been implementing a number of things that have long been requested. So your feedback still has some (small) value.

[madbrain76]

johnrellis,

Thanks. I voted for that feature . Looks like it has been an RFE since Lightroom 4 ! SMH.

[bhousto90]

Do you have a 2nd monitor to use with Lightroom?

With the 2nd monitor set to 'fit' Loupe view, LR will update that screen with a zoom to fit screen view of only the cropped area each time you stop moving/release the crop handles.

(the 2nd monitor preview will work too but it is not a convenient as you have to have it placed/sized just right so that you can see what you are working with underneath)