• Global community
    • Language:
      • Deutsch
      • English
      • Español
      • Français
      • Português
  • 日本語コミュニティ
    Dedicated community for Japanese speakers
  • 한국 커뮤니티
    Dedicated community for Korean speakers
Exit
0

Transcoding to Cineform seems to reduce quality

Engaged ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

If I maximize the preview window in premiere of the program window to 400 percent and have the transcoded clip above the native .mp4 clip the cineform clip is actually slightly reduced. Like the hand of someone will be more blurry than the native clip. I can notice this by using pressing the eye viewer button to bounce back and forth between the two video tracks. Is this normal? I have transcoded a .mp4 native clip to Cineform quality 4 which is filmscan21and it's slightly blurry if you zoom in at 400 percent compared the native clip. If I transcode to cineform 5 which is the highest quality and maximum setting it does not cause any form of blur.

Is this supposed to happen? If Cineform retains quality why would it be slightly reduced after transcoding?

my .mp4 native clips are in 1080p HD and my cineform settings are 10 bit at quality 4

If it's normal for the clips to be slightly reduced then why would I ever want to transcode?

Views

960

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Community Expert ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

And how does the quality go 100%? That is the question you must answer. There is always some difference when you do a transcoding and you should always make comparisons to the actual size ie 100%. If being 100% looks very different from the original, that is a problem, but if 100% looks very good or equal quality, that is the result you are waiting for and it means that everything is fine.

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Engaged ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

So Don't worry about what is looked like blown up above 100 percent?

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Community Expert ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I would not worry if I transcoded, there are always internal coding changes when I go from one codec to another. 100% is the actual size of the video and everything that goes up from that value will begin to deteriorate even if it is the original video.

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
LEGEND ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Are you confident that when you did the transcode you did not alter the pixel dimensions, pixel aspect ratio, field dominance or add frame blending or other modification to the transcode?

I just did a test from some Sony MXF footage to ProRes 422, and can't see any difference at 400% (the Pro Res is on the left, the original on the right:

Screen Shot 2018-07-24 at 6.41.57 AM.png

MtD

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
LEGEND ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

And here it is transcoded to CineForm (CineForm on the left, original on the right):

Screen Shot 2018-07-24 at 6.52.49 AM.png

MtD

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Engaged ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

it's the same resolution. Double checked.

Here is a video screenshot of me going from the transcoded clip to native and you will see the minor detail differences as I switch back and forth. Particularly by the guys finger with his ring on it. The sharpness comes back when I turn off the top clip which is the cineform clip which is quality setting 4. ScreenCapture_2018-7-24 13.00.48.mp4 - Google Drive

If you look closely you will see that the pixels on the hand etc change when I flip back and forth from cineform to native

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
LEGEND ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

What are your Sequence Settings? If you are not using CineForm as the sequence preview format, both the H.264 source and the CineForm source are being rendered for display (in quasi real time) in the format your Sequence Settings are set to in the preview area.

Screen Shot 2018-07-24 at 7.32.19 AM.png

Since this preview format conversion is being done on the fly as you flip back and forth, that might explain why you are seeing the difference.

To test, I would set up a split screen of the CineForm and H.264 that splits though the ring, then force render that area of the timeline. Once rendered, then inspect at 400% and see if you can observe differences across the split.

MtD

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Engaged ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

well this is odd. I can't seem to find cineform listed in the sequence settings anywhere. Also when I make a new project and drop the cineform clip into the timeline it asks me to change the settings to match the sequence. When I do it creates a sequence with mpeg i frame rather than cineform.

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
LEGEND ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Mac or PC?

MtD

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Engaged ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

PC

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Engaged ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Finally found the cineform setting in sequence settings and changed it but it's still doing that pixil change even after I rendered the two clips

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Community Expert ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

It looks to me you transcoded the clip to upper field (interlaced).

Your source footage is progressive, yes?

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Engaged ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I don't think so. I just went export. selected cineform and chose quality 4 and left everything the way it was

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Community Expert ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Check the info section.

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Engaged ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

field order is set to lower by default for cineform 10 bit

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Community Expert ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

That is not correct. If your source is no fields so should the export be.

Post screenshot sequence settings.

Clip in Mediainfo in treeview

Export settings.

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Engaged ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

well lower field first is what is selected to match the settings according to premiere.

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Community Expert ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Please post the screenshots. HD is never lower field.

Probably started with incorrect settings.

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Engaged ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

how is HD never lower field? That's weird. When I automatically drag my .mts footage it creates a sequence with lower field

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Community Expert ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Please post the screenshots !!!!!!

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Engaged ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Cineform Tree

cineformtree.PNG

native footage tree

nativetree.PNG

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Community Expert ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Native footage is interlaced upper fields as I already mentioned.

CF is progressive made from a UFF clip in a LFF timeline: not a good workflow.

upper field.png

Now yours sequence settings!!!

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Engaged ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

choosing progressive makes it worse than it was with lower field selected. Here are the default settings I used initially when I transcoded the clip.

cineform.PNG

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Community Expert ,
Jul 24, 2018 Jul 24, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Now screenshot of clip in MediaInfo in treeview.

And sequence settings!

Votes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines