Why can I place text to another master text box but not another?

[MarVar]

Hi!

I just can't wrap my head around this. I have a template for subtitling a video. I'm trying to place text to different text boxes, so that two different languages would be on top on each other on video. I did it once already, and it worked. But, for some reason, now when I try to place text to the lower text box, it won't go in there. I can place text to the one above without any problems.

Why, oh why? I've wasted good half an hour already just trying to figure it out. Can you help me?

The file can be found here: subtitles-widescreen-template.indd - pCloud

Thank you so much if you can!

!!! I worked my way around it by duplicating the working text box, which allowed two place-able master text boxes. Still doesn't really give any insight on why the original one isn't working.

[Derek Cross]

Shouldn't you be in something like the Premiere Pro Forum?

[MarVar]

No, since I'm using InDesign to make the subtitles - it's easier. See the file.

[Frans v.d. Geest]

Use Layers. Thar way you can hide/show a language an more easely  select the text frame you acrualy want to change.

[MarVar]

I tried that. It didn't allow me to place anything inside the lower text frame. Only the one above woked. I clicked all over place and removed the failed attempts with ctrl+z, but it just didn't work. When I duplicated the working text frame and moved it where the dysfunctional is in the master spread. it worked at the first try without hiding anything.

So there's obviously something fishy about the lower text frame in the master, but I don't know what it is. It would be nice to konw, to be future proof.

[Frans v.d. Geest]

I assume the text frame itself is not on the Master page, if so: it is locked by default on the document pages itself. Click on it on the document pages with Ctrl-Shift (PC) / Cmnd-Shift (Mac) first to 'detach' it from the Master. But, as this is so basic beginner knowledge I assume you mean a different problem...?

[MarVar]

Okay, I'll describe my objective and method here:

Objective: to produce series of full screen subtitle slides for the whole length of the video.

Method: Place appropriately formatted text file into pre-formatted spread in InDesign with shift-place to make InDesign to create required number of spreads. In order to do this, I've defined the layout in the master A. The text boxes are supposed to stay undefined in the spread until I place text to them. I've found out that otherwise it will not work as I intend it to work.

Before placing the text the spread 1 is empty, only displaying the graphic elements defined in master A. No text box overrides, so no text boxes. Upon placing the text to where the text boxes are defined in the master and holding shift while doing so, the text should flow to next spread and the next and so on, until there's no more text to flow.

Now, in the file I linked, this works with another text box that I've defined in the master, but not another.

I've found that if I apply master A to the spread 1, the text box that does not work as I want it to appears in the spread, defined there, while the other, upper one, that works as I want it to does not. I do not know why those master A's text boxes behave differently, they've been defined to be identical.

So no, I do not want to detach the text box from the master to have it as an override in a particular spread. That would destroy my workflow, no matter how clumsy it is now since I cant figure some things out here.

Did I explain it well enough for it to be clear and understandable?

Oh, and may I add that I've used this method before, but I've always kinda struggled with similar things. I've always found a workaround, but I would very much like to know what I'm doing wrong here, since it would probably save me some time in the future.

[Frans v.d. Geest]

As said, I downloaded your fille and it works fine. As also said: if you apply a Master with a text frane, that text frame from the master will ALWAYS be locked on the document page. That is how it works. You have to detach it on the document page if you want to edit it there on that page.

Now, is this now more clear to you?

[MarVar]

Huh, why does it not work for me then as I described? And why can I place text directly where the upper text frame is even though it's "locked" on the document page and I haven't created a frame there in any way - it gets created when I place the text there.

Obviously we're talking about different things here, or then you didn't understand how this is supposed to work.

If anyone is willing to try it out, here's a text file you can try to shift-place into the upper and lower text box on the document side, first spread. You will see that the text frames get created and the text flows through the spreads when doing it for the upper, but for the lower it doesn't find the text box, even though they're similarly defined in the master A. Do not create text frames in the document side before placing, it may ruin the process.

What does not work is that when placing to where the lower frames are supposed to be created, InDesign doesn't place it in the text frame defined in the master A, but instead creates a new one and places wrongly all over the place. This does not happen with the upper text frame, where the text flows beautifully and stays within the text frame in every spread.

If it really works like that for you, then we are seeing different things.

lorem.txt - pCloud

May I offer you a video about what I mean?:

indesign-subtitle-problem.mp4 - pCloud

then again.. whatever, I got it working. It's not worth it to bounce this back and forth, since we have some kind of failure to communicate. I'll just go on with my business as usual.

[Laubender]

Hi Frans,

I downloaded the sample document.

Detaching the text frames from master A is working as expected.

Placing the text is working as expected.

What's a bit strange with the sample document:

On page 1: The detached frame lands on Layer 2 wheras the corresponding one on master A is clearly positioned on Layer 1.

If you add a new page, not duplicate page 1 of the sample document, all is in the right order.

I guess that on page 1 of that sample document the frame from master A was already detached and removed once.

So our OP MarVar should not use page one of the document at all.

My suggestion:

MarVar should add another page and then remove page one in the sample document.

Then start over as you suggested:

Ctrl + Shift for detaching the text frame, importing the text as a second step.

Regards,
Uwe

[Laubender]

Hm. I did another test.

Once page 2 is added and page 1 of the sample document is removed one does not need to detach one of the two text frames from master A.

Why? One of the two text frames, the one named Sveska on master A, is a primary text frame so importing the text file to that frame will add new pages as needed to flow in all texts from the sample text file. If that is what MarVar likes to do.

The other text frame on master A, named English, cannot be a primary text frame. There could be only one.

That one will be available for importing text after it is detached by using Ctrl + Shift on it. And of course if it cannot hold all the imported text a new page has to be added first if not already done and it must be detached on the new page first before it can be threaded to the corresponding one on page 1.

Regards,
Uwe

[Frans v.d. Geest]

Yes, one is a primary text frame, auto insert pages on in preferences. The second frame, added, is not. If he wants also auto insert it has to be threaded, but as it is set up as single page... hmmm.

Anyway, it is clear that the OP ignores all advice on detaching/ctrlShift clicking so he keeps creatng new frames on the place he clicks. There is some missing of the principle workings of ID by the OP. I’m done here to be honest...

[S Hopkins · Accepted solution]

OK, so this is what I think you want: A document that creates pages as text flows in (primary text frame), and it needs to support a primary text frame that will support more than 1 language. Use alternate layout.

Here is how it works:

1. Create a document - 1 page, with primary text frame selected.

2. In the document: Create text styles as needed. Make sure the last paragraph style to be used on the page has a large space below amount set (forces next page text to next page).

3. Here's the trick. From the Pages panel, go into the master page. Click on the PAGE to activate the master text frame. Resize the frame and place it where you want the text flow to be on the page. (DO NOT create a text frame, use the existing master text frame.)

4. Go back to page 1. (Notice NO TEXT was added to the primary text frame on the master page.)

5. In the Pages panel create an alternate layout (Window > Pages > Create Alternate Layout.

In the Alternate Layout panel: Name your layout (Second Language or whatever). Make sure the following are set:

a. Liquid Page Rule - Preserve Existing

b. Uncheck Link Stories

c. Copy Styles is optional

d. Check Smart Text Reflow

6. Click OK. You will now have 2 alternate layouts A and B.

7. With Layout A selected, use the text tool to click into the text frame from the master page. Choose and Place text for your first language.

8. In the Pages panel, click on Layout B.

9. Back to Page 1 (you will be in Layout B), click into the text frame from the master page with the text tool. choose and Place text for your next language.

Hope this is what you were looking for.

S. Hopkins

[MarVar]

Oh wow, thanks mr. Hopkins. I'll be testing this tomorrow when I have the time. Thanks for everyone for the replies so far, sorry I've been busy working so I haven't had the time to dig into your replies. Much appreciated. I'll get back to you tomorrow!

[Frans v.d. Geest]

I downloaded your file to take a look. Nothing wrong here. But you need to Cmnd-Shift (or Ctrl-shift) first to be able to select items you draw at the Master on the document page of course. As this is so basic beginners knowledge I advice you to follow some training or at least buy a book on how to use InDesign.