Burning DVD for SD tv's question

[Offbeat Bryce Productions]

Hello,

I'm going to be making some DVD's of videos shot by kids to give to family members at a senior center. All their TV's are old in their rooms and only accept SD. How do I go about burning HD footage onto a regular DVD so that everything fits on a small TV? I tried a test and it is cutting off text eyes etc. Even though it seems the frame is well within the tv safe limit unless I'm misreading the safe area. When I go to put it on a small TV from a DVD parts of it are cut off.

What settings do I use? Do I export it an MPG2 in SD or HD?

[Stan Jones]

Export as MPEG2-DVD format, widescreen preset. Set crop on left to Scale to fill. You will get two files, m2v and wav.

Import to Encore "as timeline. " If it says "untranscoded" in the DVD transcode status column, we'll provide more info.

[Offbeat Bryce Productions]

okay thanks,

Maybe I've been misunderstanding the whole title safe area from the beginning but I exported a CNN news clip and turned 4:3 safe area on and all half the text would get cropped off on the sides. Even in export mode it shows it would get cropped off. How do people broadcast Live or to TV without the text getting cut off?

Here is an example of a CNN clip in 720p with 4:3 title safe turned on. Am I correct to assume anything outside the 4:3 box is cut off? If so how does someone watch the same broadcast on two different TV's? Also someone else told me anything outside the title safe area in HD will be cut off but when I upload a video to YouTube this isn't the case and everything outside the far outside box is visible. I'm not understanding this at all.

What if I send a video to a TV station? Will the same settings for DVD work on a SD broadcast or not?

[John T Smith]

Those title lines are so you know how wide to type a title

When you export a 720 video you would not use 4:3 unless you WANT your video to be cropped... you use a wide screen setting

To send to a TV station you start by asking what they want

The MPEG2-DVD preset creates 2 files (audio and video) since that is what Encore wants to use to create a DVD

I am going to GUESS that a TV station wants a single file with audio and video 'muxed' together... but ask the TV station

[Offbeat Bryce Productions]

what happens if when I filmed I framed everything to be in HD? For example I have a film I framed with three people being interviewed. two of them on both sides of the frame which show up in HD are way outside the 4:3 safe area. I can't go back and refilm it. What do I do? What happens if someone has a super old box TV? Do dvd players even hitch up to those old TV's at all? What about broadcast? I know a guy who's in his 80's who still has an old UHF tv. what if he's watching a documentary I made on his TV that was intended for HD. What if the station won't accept a version with black bars on the tops bottoms or sides? It's the sides that would be cut off not the top or bottom in this case.

[Abambo]

HD means you need to sample down to SD. That shouldn’t be a big problem.

Now stays the problem with the aspect ratio. « Modern » TV sets are in 16:9, older ones in 4:3. To get a 16:9 film to 4:3, you have basically 2 possibilities:

• Cropping the sides of and moving the center of interest.
• Adding black above and below the video. For this you will downsample even more.

Both possibilities have been used in the past and have their merits and disadvantages.

The « safe area » on a sceen comes from the old CRTs that cut of some of the information outside of that safe area. There was no possibility to know how much, so you kept the important data inside of that safe area. That is no more relevant for modern LCD screens as they are able to show the whole picture. The safe title area was still more restricted to make sure that all text was visible.

[Averdahl]

The « safe area » on a sceen comes from the old CRTs that cut of some of the information outside of that safe area. There was no possibility to know how much, so you kept the important data inside of that safe area. That is no more relevant for modern LCD screens as they are able to show the whole picture. The safe title area was still more restricted to make shure that all text was visible.

Off topic:

I think the safe areas are still relevant, even with modern TV´s. I see commercials everyday with logos and text cut off on my LG 50' TV. On HD channels i can change the aspect ratio and show the whole image but on SD channels i cannot. So, HD commercials that are broadcasted to SD channels will to often get cut off logos and text if the creator just dismiss the safe areas. Yes, it not as rigid as it was in the CRT days, but it is still relevant since modern TV´s do cut off material, often with the default settings.

[Abambo]

Yes, on TVs with a different aspect than 16:9 you get for full screen viewing data cut off from the video media.

[Averdahl]

Yes, on TVs with a different aspact than 16:9 you get for full screen viewing data cut off from the video media.

But my TV is 16:9 and if i set the aspect ratio on the TV to 16:9 logos and text are cut off on SD channels airing commercials that were made in HD and when the creator dismissed the safe areas. Not on all of the commercials, but on too many. I never saw that in the CRT days.

If i set a HD channel to 16:9 the very same thing happens as well, but i have the option to change the aspect ratio to full image and all is fine. Problem is that 16:9 is the default... (LG 50PZ950)

[Abambo]

Your TV is doing strange things. Good to know that you still should respect the safe area. But may be the young producers don’t even know that. I‘ve made once a cinema commercial that was cut off because we didn’t know their correct aspect...30 years ago...

[Stan Jones]

The DVD/BD player has a setting for type of display. So for an old style 4:3 TV, you set it to 4:3 letter box or 4:3 pan and scan. That will set the black bars; you don't need to burn them in on export.

So for HD material (which is 16:9) you export it as MPEG2-DVD (which is SD, so it is downrezzed) with a preset as widescreen, (since that is the only way to get all the picture into the 4:3 frame.

[rodneyb56060189]

It's a bit complicated.

SD (standard definition) is a 4:3 aspect ratio ( four across to 3 down). That is old TV stuff. Most TV's are now 16:9 (wider). To play wide stuff on old TV's is tricky. To play old 4:3 stuff shot with older cameras, on 16:9 wide screens is also tricky.

Usually it means you end up cropping stuff (your cnn example is wide screen with safety view on ).

For SD stuff you are dealing with non-square pixels. For HD it is square pixels.

You need to whittle down your variables so you can isolate what you have as source material first of all.

If students are shooting with new cameras at 16:9 (square pixels) it won't FIT on an old TV unless you force "letterbox" (which would have black bars on top and bottom of old TV, non square pixel export from editor).  You also have to deal with the issue of 'interlaced' vs. 'progressive' export ( depending on old TV ability to see the product ).

You should google and research the differences between SD (interlaced ) and HD ( progressive) to get a start on understanding you options.

That will also lead you to understand square vs. non square pixels and frame rates, etc.

good luck !

[rodneyb56060189]

hehe... tv's are funny.

Mine is full HD. most everything is good using a rooftop antenna for local stations ( I don't have cable anymore). But there's one channel that shows stuff that is weird. What they do is buy rights to broadcast some old movie that was shot wide screen originally, but got panned and scanned and 'cropped' to 4:3 for CRT TV's. It's cheaper to buy that product to broadcast.

So THEN my TV shows the 4:3 stuff stretched out to fill the 16:9 space. Everyone looks like they are made of silly putty and got squished out really WIDE... their heads are wider than they should be. Then I adjust the TV format to whatever works to show it normal ( with now black bars on right and left ).   hehe, pretty funny.

THEN I have to reset it back to default for everything else.

I feel sorry for those who didn't grow up with the old CRT ( 4:3) TV's where EVERYTHING was fitting into it ( letterbox for widescreen like movies rented from blockbuster, or movies shot wide and letterboxed for 4:3, etc.

Safety frames are still used on new digital pro cameras. God Friended me is shot anamorphic cause the showrunner wants the horizontal flare. Then CBS lops off the sides ( cut off the right and left of wide frame to make it 16:9), cause CBS didn't want to letterbox it. So they have to use safety lines in viewfinder ( and at DIT ) to see what is safe and what is out of frame ( like boom mics, etc. ).

live and learn I guess.

good luck !

[rodneyb56060189]

here's a current example. resolve manual ( definitive guide to resolve 15 paper manual ) has tutorials. source stuff you have to download. Then do tutorials. This is pro res wide stuff... wider than 16:9 (probably like 1.85:1 ?? ) if watched on full HD tv it would have black bars on top and bottom.

is about 20 secs.

hyperlight

https://vimeo.com/312284744

[Abambo]

rodneyb56060189  wrote

This is pro res wide stuff... wider than 16:9 (probably like 1.85:1 ?? ) if watched on full HD tv it would have black bars on top and bottom.

...or the sides will be cut off (scale to full screen). And that's where you still need safe areas...

[rodneyb56060189]

yeah, it gets tricky. I haven't tried to export that thing for 16:9. One thing that can be done for most of this type stuff, is you export an intermediate, at full res, stick it back into a 16:9 timeline, and scale so you have the whole image left to right, giving you the blanking on top and bottom. lots of stuff to deal with.  hehe... a good thing is to pick a small section of timeline and do tests to see what you end up with ( instead of wasting time exporting the whole thing, etc. ).

in posters case, person could use re-writable dvd for small burn and play on player capable of playing re-writable stuff, and check out how it looks.

in old days the 4:3 safety was used on pro jobs (with cameras shooting 16:9 or 3 perf, 2 perf, etc. (cause 35mm film is NOT 4:3)) for TV broadcast ( when mostly CRT old TV's were being used by consumers). Also shot mostly (for broadcast only jobs) at 30fps, so it was a one to one frame conversion to interlaced. Stuff gets kinda weird and now it's even weirder due to all the new higher res formats and anamorphic fad, etc.