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      • 40. Re: ACR and camera profiles
        Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
        I'll try it.

        I didn't know DNG would keep the edit info. Is that new?

        I would likely go the opposie: Burn the DNGs and keep the ACRs in HD. That way, I can discard stuff in ACR I really don't need but was afraid to delete! :D
        • 41. Re: ACR and camera profiles
          Ann Shelbourne Community Member
          I am actually doing that too: burning DNG to DVDs and keeping selected ACRs on my HD.

          I haven't used DNGs until now. but I think that they always kept the edits although earlier versions may not have kept the original RAW files intact with the side-car edits pre-loaded?
          • 42. Re: ACR and camera profiles
            Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
            You mentioned 5.2 so it made me wonder a bit.

            I didn't D/L that version as I seldom use DNG so I am going to check it out.
            • 43. Re: ACR and camera profiles
              Ann Shelbourne Community Member
              5.2 was a major update far more than its dot update might imply.

              Check out the new local adjustment tools and, particularly, the TAT!
              • 44. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                Local adjustment tools?

                I see only the usual front panel and a preference panel.
                • 45. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                  Community Member
                  You need to open the file in ACR to access the tools.

                  ACR 5.2 / Bridge in 2009 = Lightroom 2.0 in 2008. :p
                  • 46. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                    Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                    I suspected it is connected to CS4...which I still don't use.

                    It's a platform issue. At the end of the year, I decided against updating the computer and updated the cameras/lenses instead.

                    Thanks phil.
                    • 47. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                      Community Member
                      Lawrence,
                      What camera? D90?
                      Q
                      • 48. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                        Ann Shelbourne Community Member
                        ACR 5.2 is part of CS4.

                        You might choose the Lightroom route (which also includes ACR 5.2) if you don't want to invest in CS4 at this time because ACR 5.2 is streaks ahead of previous versions.

                        For me, Bridge CS4 and ACR 5.2 alone are reasons enough to need the CS4 upgrade and I just cannot get fond of Lightroom.

                        You don't HAVE to install a Open GL supporting video card to use everything in CS4 except for the special OpenGL features which are not needed for running the rest of the program.
                        • 49. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                          Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                          yes, I know that ACR 5.2 is part of CS4, but DNG 5.2 is not. I thought we were referencing the DNG.

                          The camera is the D90, and folks, please spare me any bluster like "What? you didn't buy a D....?:D

                          I'm also evauating new lenses, and my basic guide is SLRGear testing. It tracks extremely well with my own findings. And yes, using is not the same as testing.
                          • 50. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                            Ann Shelbourne Community Member
                            >I know that ACR 5.2 is part of CS4, but DNG 5.2 is not. I thought we were referencing the DNG.

                            The DNG Converter 5.2 is a free stand-alone but I think of it as being in tandem with ACR 5.2 and I reckon that you are soon going to find that you want/need the latter too.
                            • 51. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                              Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                              First things first, however. And that is a really fast, stable platform that will run Vista 64 and install CS4 like it was an ordinary app. :-)

                              Sounds a bit idealistic, but I have been testing software on my choice for over 6 months now. I'm into $600 for mobo and cpu and I haven't even the OS.

                              The stable part is key. With all the grief CS4 has for many, I refuse to run a system that hasn't solid proof of stability. That proof I have seen and tested for myself.
                              • 52. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                Community Member
                                Lawrence,
                                The D90 sounds great to me. Great photographs at a very reasonable price. What's not to like?
                                Q
                                • 53. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                  Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                                  Agreed. After careful testing, I find the D90 to run a I would expect from the DXO site data. I still have to check out the dynamic range capabilities. However, I noticed immediately that my defaults for the Shadow/Highlight tool are too aggressive for this body, and in many cases where it is called for with the D80, none is necessary with the D90. What I do want to accomplish is a check on the dynamic range change with ISO changes.

                                  I also added two lenses, one prime, Nikon 50mm f 1.8 another a shorter zoom range Tamron 28 to 75mm f2.8, which I chose because of the results indicated in SLRGear. My objective here is excellent sharpness, CA, vignetting and distortion figures over the focal length range. The downside of the Tamron seems to be that the combination here tends to go on a hunting expedition when auto focusing. I set up a test, and at f8, I could not see any sharpness differences, but at f2.8 I could. I tried different lenses at the store, they all do it.

                                  For critical work, I can see to focus with the F90, but it is a drag. OTOH, setting the focal point with respect to desired DOF has always been the job of the photographer, and depending on autofocus to do that has been a negative for me, no matter the camera's capability. Why I can't have a screen like a split image is beyond me. The manual focus indicator does help, though.

                                  From a qualitative pov, I am finding less need to go the stitched route to excellence in images, but at the same time, the stitched images are smoother due to the low values in distortion and a more consistent exposure from frame to frame when shooting.

                                  I still expect to do the stitched version for the big landscapes, but everything else seems just fine as a single shot.

                                  I probably will add a macro sometime down the line, perhaps the Nikon 85mm prime.I am less sure here because i don't do macros, so I don't know where to land so far as the basic F/L is concerned. The longer versions seem the better route as one can be physically further from the object, but DOF is to be considered as well. So, any suggestions here?

                                  The cinematography capabilities are the most novel part of the D90, and boy, am I bad at that! :D
                                  • 54. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                    Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                                    Strange, but if you put parentheses around f2.8 or f1.8, you get this:

                                    (f2.8), (f1.8)
                                    • 55. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                      Nick Decker Community Member
                                      It's the closing parenthesis following the 8 that gives you the smiley.
                                      • 56. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                        Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                                        8)

                                        9)

                                        7)

                                        Hmmm, why 8) and not the others?
                                        • 57. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                          Nick Decker Community Member
                                          Well, if you look at the 8 and parenthesis sideways, it resembles a smile. I guess the forum software is programmed to turn it into a smiley.
                                          • 59. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                            Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                                            This is a test. This is only a Test. If there were an actual.....

                                            8-)
                                            :)

                                            So, there is more than one way to get a specific smiley. That I didn't know.

                                            back to lenses for a moment. I'm getting nervous about the Tamron. I started the camera this morning, it didn't focus. Ooops! The lens is on manual. Set it to AF. Damn. Still didn't focus. Camera's is on Auto, Check. Flip from AF to MF and back again on the D90 and it runs.

                                            The rest of the system is home so I can't tey different lenses or the D80 with this lens, but if this continues, it goes back and I wait until I can spring for a different zoom. Or go all prime.
                                            • 60. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                              Ann Shelbourne Community Member
                                              I seriously suggest that you stay with Nikon's own lenses even if you can't buy everything that you want immediately.

                                              Tamrons have ALWAYS been a mixed bag with very variable performance from individual lenses.

                                              Try the Nikor 70mm-300mm zoom. It's a "Prosumer" full-format lens so is not one of the fastest, but the quality that it produces is astounding and it is remarkably inexpensive.
                                              • 61. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                                Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                                                Ann, that is a consideration after I cover the range this one does. It's important because the vast majority of my stitching focal lengths fall there.

                                                Certainly tamron is a mixed bag. I am aware of the problem with the flex circuit cable they have had in the past. But the optical performance is of the best in it's range, so for $400, I can tolerate an occasional replacement! The shot I did in the fog a couple of days ago rivals a contact print from an 8x10 neg!

                                                I have been running back and forth this morning on the AF/MF problem, and I cannot replicate it, so it may have been an operator problem.

                                                I do agree that, if the problem results in reducing my output because of such fussiness, the lens goes. I can cover that range with the 18 to 135, albiet with barrel distortion, CA and vignetting to have to compensate.
                                                • 62. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                                  Community Member
                                                  Thanks John for smiley chart.
                                                  Lawrence aren't you concerned about 3rd party lenses on a new body? I would be worried that they may damage the electronics of the body.
                                                  • 63. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                                    Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                                                    No way. Why should a new body be any different than an old? Errors in connections are as possible with lenses of the same brand as third party, and would instantly be apparent the first time you use it.

                                                    In fact, the only problem I ever had with connectivity between the body and lens was a Nikon lens. It had some sort of crud on a contact. A bit of cleaning and all is well.
                                                    • 64. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                                      Community Member
                                                      > Why should a new body be any different than an old?

                                                      Because it was just paid for.

                                                      I guess my main concern was a 3rd party not abiding to the correct pin layout and causing damage to the body.
                                                      I had it in my mind there is a reason why the lenses are cheaper. I guess I am a bit paranoid.
                                                      • 65. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                                        Nick Decker Community Member
                                                        The fact that any number of Nikon lenses will work on a given Nikon body must mean that the mount and pin arrangement is pretty standardized.
                                                        • 66. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                                          Allen Wicks Community Member
                                                          Regardless of brand IMO a new body will likely have tighter tolerances than one with 100k pix and lots of lens changeouts on it; same for lenses. However those small differences in tolerances at the lens connection point do not appear to be significant to operation.

                                                          What may be an issue with 3rd party lenses is full conformance with camera vendors' future electronic capabilities. Not that damage would be likely, rather that certain future features might not be available.

                                                          E.g. almost all Nikon lenses will attach to the latest D3x, but at various vintages certain features are unavailable. With tech evolving so quickly and the camera manufacturers very proprietary and very secretive about future plans third party lenses are probably less future proof.
                                                          • 67. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                                            Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                                                            I am aware of that also, and the Tamron runs just fine witrh either body to date.

                                                            At $400 vs $1400, I can run a replacement when needed.

                                                            What seems to be evolving is that, with two different bodies, 4 lenses, 2 nikon, 2 third party, I have some interesting image profiles with which to work.
                                                            • 68. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                                              Ramón G Castañeda Community Member
                                                              Lawrence,
                                                              >with two different bodies, 4 lenses, 2 nikon, 2 third party, I have some interesting image profiles with which to work

                                                              My apologies in advance if I'm misconstruing that part of your post, but in ACR, you are presented only with the particular profiles that are specific to the camera that generated the image you are opening at any given moment. In other words, the profiles built for camera model A will not be available for camera model B.

                                                              Again, sorry if I misunderstand.
                                                              • 69. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                                                Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                                                                I don't mean that kind of profile, Ramon. You are correct about that. Profile in this instance does not involve ACR or PS.

                                                                The profile to which I am referring is probably better termed a transfer function, that is, the kind of function which is what you get with film. As you know, each film has it's particular look. But in digital, these values are much more closely matched; nevertheless, when taking the entire system in perspective, you will find more subtle (no Velvia unless you drag the Vibrance slider way over!) variations, and these are fixed. So, I can decide that a particular combination of camera and lens will deliver the look I want. One is crisp and rather wide in tonal range, the other delivers a more dense look, richer, in my view anyway.

                                                                These differences are not great, but they start the process rolling in a particular direction.

                                                                I got the idea from the way the multiple camera profiles I can get from the D80 in ACR: Vivid, Standard camera etc.

                                                                So< I took a second look at what each body can deliver, and I believe that the D80 will still have a role to play.

                                                                I called it a profile, but really, it isn't a profile existing as software modifying data, but rather, a look which I memorize and use when shooting by simple selection of hardware.

                                                                Hope this all makes sense! :-)

                                                                Some differences are far enough apart that one is considered inferior in some way. I would rather try to make use of those differences.
                                                                • 70. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                                                  Ramón G Castañeda Community Member
                                                                  Thank you. I did misunderstandnot that I understand now. :D
                                                                  • 71. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                                                    Laurentiu G Todie Community Member
                                                                    I love it when Larry isn't trying to blend-in with the obnoxious kids (or geezers : )
                                                                    • 72. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                                                      Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                                                                      Hmmm, geezer. Google that and you get lots of entries.

                                                                      I'm not sure if either of the Larrys here qualify due to age, but otherwise?:-)
                                                                      • 73. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                                                        Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                                                                        Cutting to the chase, think of it as similar to changing film types, except here you also see that type of difference changing lens brands as well, and, I'll bet, from one class of lenses to another in the same brand.
                                                                        • 74. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                                                          Ramón G Castañeda Community Member
                                                                          Where and how do you use them, Lawrence? That's what's unclear to me.
                                                                          • 75. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                                                            Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                                                                            It's similar to having extra backs on the Hasselblad, but with more complexity. Changing backs is far simpler than changing cameras! It may turn out to be more trouble than it's worth, and if my SO and I are out together, she will be using one or the other anyway.

                                                                            It's somewhat a justification for keeping the D80, but with some clarity as to what and why.

                                                                            I haven't checked b&w differences yet, and that would be another consideration.

                                                                            Sometimes, things get more complex before they get simpler again.
                                                                            • 76. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                                                              Ramón G Castañeda Community Member
                                                                              Again: Where and how do you use them, Lawrence? That's what's unclear to me.

                                                                              What application? Where in the application? How?

                                                                              I'm just not following you.
                                                                              • 77. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                                                                Ramón G Castañeda Community Member
                                                                                >haven't checked b&w differences yet

                                                                                Black and white in raw images? There's no such thing. The in-camera setting for b&w is just a flag that tells the raw converter to demosaic the raw file and immediately desaturate the colors upon conversion.
                                                                                • 78. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                                                                  Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                                                                                  No, no no, Ramon. I'm using the B&W converter in Photoshop. There is actually a converter in ACR and you can manipulate the b&w with the color sliders available when you select "Convert to Grayscale"/"Grayscale Mix". but I prefer to use the conversion in Photoshop.

                                                                                  I am not referring at all to ACR or RAW when I speak of profiles, Ramon, just as profiles for the printer is not in ACR. I speak of profile in a generic term, not an ACR only term.

                                                                                  Look at it this way. If you shoot the same scene with both cameras in quick succession and open in PS after first running ACR in the default mode for each camera, the images look different. If I were OCD, I would shoot everything in all the combos possible (not gonna happen!) but I can have some variation available.

                                                                                  It's that difference that intrigues me, Ramon, at least in the immediate future. Maybe I won't go there in the long run, but I try everything.

                                                                                  When I taught photography, the students were worried about mistakes in the darkroom. I told them the only true mistake was to do the fixer first. All other variations were simple data points, and that an under or over developed neg with respect to the Time/Temp specified was not necessarily a mistake. Some one might actually prefer the out of spec version. You look and make choices.

                                                                                  If you could see my files on film choice/development, your eyes would roll way back! :D

                                                                                  This simply carries on my pov concerning technique. Mistakes are rare, data points rule!

                                                                                  Anyway, the profile here is in my head, so to speak. I memorize the look with respect to the equipment and choose, not unlike Chopin having two pianos.
                                                                                  • 79. Re: ACR and camera profiles
                                                                                    Ramón G Castañeda Community Member
                                                                                    I give up.