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    Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film

    Wade S Zimmerman Community Member
      so I am told by the people of Adorama.

      Still make slide film and b&w.

      It would be interesting if only black and white film survives in the end.

      Easier to sell the concept"well I only shoot b&w!"
        • 1. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
          Community Member
          If so, they sure have plenty for sale on their website.

          http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-locale=en_US&pq-path=1094
          • 2. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
            Wade S Zimmerman Community Member
            I should qualify that a little more it may only mean that Adorama has discontinued carrying it.

            However film is made four or five years in advance of the expiration date and so there is plenty of it around and I should have also mentioned that they are discontinuing Professional 35mm film.

            I will edit my original post if I can.

            Edit

            No way to edit.
            • 3. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
              Ann Shelbourne Community Member
              I can find nothing about Kodak film on any of the News services.

              The Kodak News today is basically about a possible deal with Vivitar (concerning a partnership plan to manufacture a film camera) and the description of a tragic fatal accident at a Kodak plant.

              I think that it is very possible that Adorama may have discontinued stocking and selling Kodak materials.

              There seemed to be enormous confusion at Adorama when I bought C41 developer replenisher a few weeks ago. First they said it was "in stock" and then, having taken my order, they said it was "back-ordered"; and then it failed to be delivered to them by Kodak for nearly a month.

              The whole saga, and Adorama's explanations, just did not ring true somehow .
              • 4. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                Ann Shelbourne Community Member
                Funny if Kodak are discontinuing the manufacture of pro Film that a new version of Portra 400 was announced on 20th Feb.

                http://www.shutterbug.com/news/020508kodak/

                >February 20, 2008 Eastman Kodak Company (NYSE:EK) has announced improved versions of its Kodak Professional Portra 400NC and 400VC films.

                The new films offer:
                Finer Grain: Extended use of antenna dye technology enables PORTRA 400NC and 400VC films to deliver finer grain than ever before.

                Outstanding Scanning Results: With finer grain and an emulsion overcoat specially designed for scanners, PORTRA 400 films reproduce beautifully, with either optical or digital output.

                Spectacular Skin Tones: The new PORTRA 400 films continue to deliver smooth, natural reproduction of skin tones.

                Kodak introduced the new Kodak Professional Portra film family in 2006. The new Kodak Professional Portra films will be available worldwide on a stock-turnover basis beginning Q1 2008.
                >>>>>
                • 5. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                  Ann Shelbourne Community Member
                  And this, with a "Buy Kodak Direct" button.:

                  http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/products/films/portra/400main.jhtml?id=0.2.26. 14.7.14.22.5&lc=en

                  Could it just be that Kodak has dumped Adorama as a supplier for some reason?
                  • 6. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                    Wade S Zimmerman Community Member
                    I would say they are not going to carry it or perhaps because I order $700.00 worth of film they think I will buy a digital camera from them.

                    But they did remind me that I have to get a Fuji Instant back for my camera as Polaroid has stop manufacturing and the only 54 available wis what Polaroid has stocked up.

                    I will be testing this film shortly.

                    Yes you are correct Adorama cannot be trusted.
                    • 7. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                      Allen Wicks Community Member
                      Hopefully I will never again touch film, let alone developing chemicals. (Will not happen, but I can dream).
                      • 8. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                        Ann Shelbourne Community Member
                        And I feel the opposite: if film ceases to be made, I will probably never take another photograph!
                        • 9. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                          Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                          I love the smell of C41 developer replenisher in the morning!

                          Damn! Too long! They substituted napalm in the movie! Those dirty b......s!
                          • 10. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                            Community Member
                            >if film ceases to be made, I will probably never take another photograph!

                            This has to be most ridiculous statement I've ever heard from photographer...

                            ... someone who (supposedly) cares about image making?

                            What are you? A slave or the master... of the medium?
                            • 11. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                              Wade S Zimmerman Community Member
                              That's uncalled for Andrew.

                              If you disagree just disagree and say why it is perfectly ok if someone has a different opinion on how they wish to lead their own life and express it freely. Don't you think so?
                              • 12. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                Ramón G Castañeda Community Member
                                Again, Andrew can't stand anyone who doesn't like anything he owns or uses. Very insecure individual. His response to such a statement is invariably an utterly irrelevant personal attack.
                                • 13. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                  Ann Shelbourne Community Member
                                  My medium is film and my instruments (cameras) are not burdened with electronic gizmos.

                                  As far as I am concerned, I "Photograph" and hopefully create "Photographs"; while those that drive digital cameras "Capture Images".

                                  The approach, methods, instruments and media are entirely different.

                                  The art, science and challenge of REAL photography (taking, and MAKING, Photographs) thrills me; but using a digital camera to "capture images" holds little attraction for me personally.
                                  • 14. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                    Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                                    She's following in august footsteps. Ernst Haas stopped photographing when K-10 left the market. There used to be a reference to this on the web, but I cannot find it; one of the websites appears inoperative.

                                    She is master of her medium, and when it is gone, it is gone. Certainly Ann could, like Cartier-Bresson, take up an entirely new medium, ya, think? :-)
                                    • 15. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                      Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                                      I still photograph, Ann.

                                      "The negative (DNG?) is the score, the print is the performance."
                                      -AA
                                      Parentheses mine.
                                      • 16. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                        Community Member
                                        Ann,

                                        That sounds like the arguments that photographers used years ago when color film was in it's infancy. Artistic photographers didn't use color because that was for commercial photography not artistic pursuits. Eliot Porter proved that wasn't the case.

                                        Stephen Johnson, Vincent Versace and Greg Gorman (to name a few) are all highly respected in their respective fields of photography and use digital. Are you saying that they don't create photographs, only capture images?

                                        It's fine for you to prefer film and it's workflow just as it's fine for an artist to prefer oils over watercolors but to try and diminish someone else's chosen medium because you don't prefer it is no more justified than Andrew's comment directed at you.
                                        • 17. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                          Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                                          In one respect I am with Ann, and that is when Rights Managed completely dies. My stock sales have plummeted to near zero, only sustained by print and poster sales. I will not sell my work at royalty free rates. I'll burn the negs and erase the HD's first. Then I am outta here!
                                          • 18. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                            Ann Shelbourne Community Member
                                            I am
                                            b NOT
                                            "diminish[ing] someone else's chosen medium"; but I am saying that the Digital method of capturing images electronically, and the complex and not particularly robust or reliable tools and gizmos that are needed to do it, hold no attraction for
                                            b ME personally.

                                            Only people who have FULLY experienced traditional photography (and by that, I mean using cameras in all formats to expose film of a wide variety of types: and processing and printing all of their own work, both B&W and color, themselves) will understand what I am saying. Some may disagree and be glad to have left the Darkroom behind, but that part of the process holds as much fascination for me as does the actual taking of the shot.

                                            There is a huge thrill and sense of achievement that never goes away (well, it hasn't for me!) when you see the results of your labours.

                                            Traditional silver-based Photography requires a VERY different level of knowledge and skills from those needed to digitally capture an image and will always be the only "Real Photography" in my estimation.

                                            But now we can combine both the New and the Traditional skills: those that are fortunate enough to have mastered the knowledge and skills of both Photography AND of using Photoshop are perfectly positioned to create marvellous work.

                                            Unfortunately very little of the published work that we see around us every day was created by people with skills of either sort.
                                            • 19. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                              Allen Wicks Community Member
                                              >As far as I am concerned, I "Photograph" and hopefully create "Photographs"; while those that drive digital cameras "Capture Images".

                                              I see, when Ann composes, selects lens, f-stop, shutter speed and releases the shutter to allow light to enter the camera
                                              i creation
                                              occurs. However when Allen composes, selects lens, f-stop, shutter speed and releases the shutter to allow light to enter the camera
                                              i capture
                                              occurs.

                                              Seems a bit arrogant to me.

                                              In our biz all film gets scanned then digitally manipulated before presentation to the world. Perhaps it is all the additional lossy steps involved in film/scanning that make for a true
                                              i photograph.
                                              (I do not believe that).

                                              Personally I do consider a
                                              b one up
                                              all film/darkroom print to be a special, separate artistic product. And I hope as many photogs as possible continue to pursue the process of presenting such
                                              b one up
                                              darkroom products.
                                              b One up
                                              darkroom art is exactly that, a
                                              i separate
                                              artistic product. But not per se a
                                              i better
                                              artistic product.

                                              However IMO
                                              i once the product is digitized in any way
                                              calling film based photography somehow superior is ridiculous. At the smaller sizes (35mm) DSLR capture has been better than scanned film for years, with the better DSLRs producing quality similar to scans of medium format film.
                                              • 20. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                                Community Member
                                                "Only people who have FULLY experienced traditional photography"

                                                Well, let's see, I have done dye transfers, processed E-6, C-41, B+W, Cibachrome, used tanks, tubes, Colenta Processors, shot 35, 6x6, 6x7, 4x5, Nikon, Mamiya, Hasselblad, Linhof and other stuff along the way. So I think I have had a wee bit of exposure to traditional photography. I happen to think that the most fascinating traditional process is dye transfer because to me it is the process that requires the most craftsmanship. Unfortunately, Kodak no longer shares that view...

                                                When you siad that you try to create photographs but people who drive digital cameras just capture images, I'm sorry but that sounded a bit diminishing to me. That might not have been your intention but that's the way it sounded.

                                                Time marches on and processes change as a natural course of events and if they didn't we'd all be carrying around 8x10 cameras, coating our own glass plates, using flash powder and making contact prints. There is something "romantic" about traditional photography processes and many marvelous things about digital processes.

                                                While we may become sentimentally attached to one process or another, they are all tools that we use to get to the same place...
                                                • 21. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                                  Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                                                  We can carry the regression even farther.

                                                  The work of Carlton Watkins with the 16x20 glass plates eclipses everything done afterwards, once the pellicle entered as the dominant material on which to coat light sensitive emulsions, the overall concepts, and the look of photography changed. Another milestone was coated lenses. Another: Color, and so on.

                                                  I once proposed to the Community College at which I taught that we should really do a study of the medium, by offering a term in which the procedures followed by Watkins would be replicated...complete with tents, chemistry, glass and donkeys!

                                                  No takers, but, imo his images rock in the world of analog image making.

                                                  But hey! We don't even need that any more. All we need to do is stitch together two to four frames from a 10MPx camera and we have an 8x10 contact. Go farther and we can go beyond what Watkins did.

                                                  (I base my numbers on the resulting image size without any interpolation, at 360dpi.)
                                                  • 22. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                                    Ann Shelbourne Community Member
                                                    For me the sheer ease, speed and lack of fuss involved in taking photographs on a purely mechanical film camera is where it's appeal lies.

                                                    Sure, Allen probably takes wonderful pictures with his digital equipment.

                                                    However, I simply do not like either the ergonomics of the equipment nor the amount of fussing and, particularly, TIME that it seems to take all of the digital photographers that I have ever observed at work to actually take the shot!

                                                    "Chimping" is SUCH an appropriate expression for what generally goes on!

                                                    My "batting average" on my recent trip is running at about 98% without any "Chimping" so I now have the much more difficult task of deciding how best to use nearly 4000 photographs!
                                                    • 23. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                                      Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                                                      Ann, worst case digital time constraints are far faster than 4x5 at my most facile.

                                                      8x10, forget it! :D

                                                      Chimping time = metering time, and you only need to do it once or twice a session.
                                                      • 24. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                                        Allen Wicks Community Member
                                                        >the sheer ease, speed and lack of fuss involved in taking photographs on a purely mechanical film camera is where it's appeal lies. ...TIME that it seems to take all of the digital photographers that I have ever observed at work to actually take the shot!

                                                        Umm, sorry, but you do not get it, perhaps due to lack of DSLR experience. DSLR is much, much faster than any purely mechanical film camera - by perhaps an order of magnitude.

                                                        And IMO "the sheer ease, speed and lack of fuss involved in taking photographs" is much easier when ISO and white balance are selected in 3 seconds via dial rather than months ahead when one orders from B&H and again when loading the next 37 frames into the camera far in advance of knowing what actual scene conditions will be.

                                                        I can walk out to my Yukon right now, pick up a DSLR and photo
                                                        i anything, any lighting
                                                        with less than 5 seconds prep time and with 5 seconds review know 100% that a competent 16x20 capable pic is in the can. That is "sheer ease, speed and lack of fuss involved in taking photographs," not first finding the right film, allowing it to warm, loading a roll, manually metering or guessing the light and then waiting days to see what terrors the lab inflicts on your shot film. And we have not even mentioned the joys of scanning...

                                                        The chimping a pro does is fast; e.g. doing in 5 seconds what you would do with Polaroid; or verifying difficult focus, checking highlights, subject expressions, subject/camera movement; things impossible with film. And, much of the chimping that you observe is simply photogs immediately reviewing their pix for the sheer pleasure of the pix (something denied to film photogs).

                                                        I would observe that "98% batting average" must only refer to static pix with no movement or critters (especially groups) involved.

                                                        Note: "photo anything" in 5 seconds assumes reasonable available light but includes pix needing moderate flash assist. Shooting both with and without flash fill adds another 5 seconds... :)
                                                        • 25. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                                          Ann Shelbourne Community Member
                                                          "Chimping Time", as I observed in China is almost endless, and goes on for every shot!

                                                          Then the entire family party has to look at the results before they go through the same routine again!

                                                          Also DSLRs are more equivalent to 35mm than to 5 x 4 so 5x4 set-up time is an entirely different situation.

                                                          I would LOVE to have been able to travel through China with the 5x4 but time (we only had a little over 5 weeks in which to cover vast distances and a huge number of different locations); airline weight restrictions and over-weight baggage charges; and my own lack of physical strength to struggle through airports, railway stations and on all-day hikes far from where a car can go with that lot; made it entirely unfeasible.

                                                          Even having the RB67 with me would have been nice but would have been almost as impractical for the same reasons.

                                                          To cover the area, and number of places and situations that we experienced in five weeks, would need a full 12-months with large-format equipment and would cost a bomb in over-weight luggage charges and porterage fees!

                                                          You also run into restrictions on use of tripods; locations where photography is officially forbidden; and bad ("available darkness") lighting; so small, quickly operated, inconspicuous equipment, fitted with ultra-fast prime lenses was what I needed.
                                                          • 26. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                                            Allen Wicks Community Member
                                                            >...small, quickly operated, inconspicuous equipment, fitted with ultra-fast prime lenses was what I needed.

                                                            If a D2x was too large (note that Nikon or Canon's best DSLRs are still smaller than Ann's film Olympus if you include all the film) I would carry the new Olympus E-420 and a few 8 GB CF cards allowing thousands more pix. I am considering purchasing one with the short 25mm f/2.8 normal lens to have as a "pocket" DSLR. Decades ago I used a small Pentax with 40mm lens that way; it was convenient but blew off a roof (my last cheap tripod...).
                                                            • 27. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                                              Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                                                              Professionals are not the chimpers.

                                                              I hate that term!
                                                              • 28. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                                                Ann Shelbourne Community Member
                                                                >And IMO "the sheer ease, speed and lack of fuss involved in taking photographs" is much easier when ISO and white balance are selected in 3 seconds via dial rather than months ahead when one orders from B&H and again when loading the next 37 frames into the camera far in advance of knowing what actual scene conditions will be.

                                                                That's no problem at all:

                                                                TWO camera bodies, one loaded with Portra 800 the other with Portra 160 NC and I am all set for ANY kind of lighting (and I got the lot including Mercury vapour, tungten and daylight all mixing together over the Xi'an Terracotta Warriors!). Photography STRICTLY forbidden, of course, so a conspicuous camera, a tripod or flash were totally out of the question but I took about 100 shots successfully anyway.

                                                                Look: I am used to film;
                                                                I know how to push it to the limits;
                                                                I do NOT want, or need to see, real-time results on a monitor;
                                                                I do NOT want to read electronic numbers and make menu selections on a small screen;
                                                                I do NOT like the dim viewfinders, weight and ergonomics of the DSLRs;

                                                                b I JUST DO NOT WANT A DSLR EVEN AS A GIFT!!!

                                                                ----

                                                                So if FILM ceases to be manufactured, I can't see myself having any desire to take further photographs because it will no longer be the kind of Photography that I know and love.

                                                                Added (for Allen!):

                                                                Film storage space was easy:
                                                                One insulated bag for film which could be left with our other luggage all day;
                                                                six or seven rolls stuffed in my handbag together with a couple of extra lenses, my wallet and passports;
                                                                two light compact Olympuses round my neck:
                                                                I had everything that I needed with me ready for whatever turned-up during the day.
                                                                • 29. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                                                  Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                                                                  Ann, there is no need to go through all this. I for one, highly respect what you do and cheer you on. Having your expertise is most essential, especially to the newcomers, but also to me, not so new comer!

                                                                  So carry on with what you do, and we will also. :-)
                                                                  • 30. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                                                    Allen Wicks Community Member
                                                                    Nah, I chimp and am not ashamed of it. The lighting and fear made me unsure of my focus on this gator pic taken last week in South Carolina until after I chimped it; IMO critter shots must have
                                                                    i perfect
                                                                    eye focus. That is how I realized that this bad boy was not asleep like I thought, just waiting for me to get a little bit closer... :)

                                                                    Sorry I cannot get Pixentral to work. Is it now disallowed? Is there another easy way to provide pic links?
                                                                    • 31. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                                                      Ann Shelbourne Community Member
                                                                      Allen:

                                                                      If you post just the part of the pixentral Link that comes between the inverted commas like this:
                                                                      http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1gorkpsTBycpg5htNmVwSUYJfpL0w0

                                                                      it will act as a direct clickable link.

                                                                      Those guys never seem to really sleep: they sense your presence and keep their beady eyes on you, so taking close-ups can quickly turn into an adventure:

                                                                      I snuck-up to within about 8 feet of this Croc. on one occasion, wrongly believing him to be asleep!
                                                                      http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1nudKBi0WnfSPWFJ2ZL4sVqm6J6w0
                                                                      • 32. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                                                        Allen Wicks Community Member
                                                                        Thanks Ann!

                                                                        http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1gorkpsTBycpg5htNmVwSUYJfpL0w0

                                                                        Finally I get it; just post the url for the Pixentral page.
                                                                        • 33. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                                                          Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                                                                          Try image shack as well.

                                                                          http://imageshack.us/

                                                                          Use the last http line they offer after uploading and Host It!
                                                                          • 34. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                                                            Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                                                                            Shot and finished yesterday:

                                                                            http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/1672/poolhouse2008ko8.jpg

                                                                            This is a long term project, started back in 2003 or 04. Hand held, no perspective correction needed.
                                                                            • 35. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                                                              Community Member
                                                                              Two scenarios come to mind as I read this:

                                                                              - Ann reminds me of an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond where his Dad lost his vinyl collection of jazz records due to one of the boys parking the storage box too close to the furnace. Raymond, after being razzed about this for years, went out and bought his Dad a comparative collection of jazz CDs in hopes of compensation for the mishap. The old guy, however, wanted nothing to do with the CDs, claiming he didnt like the cleaner, crisper sound, thereof. He much rather preferred the occasional pops and scratchy notes of the vinyl spinning on the turntable that he was used to. The move ultimately misfired something fierce. Hard to teach an old dog new tricks!

                                                                              - A friend of mine wants nothing to do with computers. For obscure reasons, he outright hates them. Passionately! Doesnt even allow one in the house! He farms a fair amount of acres and does most of his business by phonesometimes spending hours on end burning up the line. Other times, hell jump in his truck to drive to the city/town to acquire essential information, burning untold gallons of fuel.

                                                                              When hes too busy to do either of the above, he phones me (knowing I have internet access), and asks if I could help him out by searching online. No problem! Lots of times I can look up the information and relay the results while still on the phone with him. He couldnt be more grateful... Go figure! ;)

                                                                              ... Personally, I have two film cameras (top-end Canon 35mm, 645 Bronica plus associated lenses, gear) sitting in their cases that havent been utilized since I moved to digital over 3 years ago. I should have sold them by now as I simply have no desire to use them, whatsoever. But the dismal 5 cents on the buck that Id likely get for them hasnt tempted me yet, so I guess Ill keep them around for nostalgia sakes. But if the right buyer happens to come along...theyre otta here!
                                                                              • 36. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                                                                Community Member
                                                                                Beautiful image, Lawrence.

                                                                                Bravo!
                                                                                • 37. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                                                                  Allen Wicks Community Member
                                                                                  Lawrence-

                                                                                  That pic makes me want to live in that pool house.

                                                                                  Seriously!
                                                                                  • 38. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                                                                    Wade S Zimmerman Community Member
                                                                                    You guys know that those creatures can run over 30 miles and hour over short distances.
                                                                                    The fastest human being cannot outrun them.
                                                                                    • 39. Re: Kodak Discontinues 35mm Color Negative film
                                                                                      Ann Shelbourne Community Member
                                                                                      Yep, I know that. But I really thought that he was asleep!

                                                                                      I was just debating with myself as to whether I could creep a bit closer to break-off the branches that were throwing those annoying shadows when that eye opened. I fired the shutter and scarpered!

                                                                                      You don't get the chance to see wild Crocodiles (he is not an alligator) in the USA too often and I wanted a record of him so caution was thrown to the winds!
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