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1. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
Hudechrome-sd9sPI Sep 16, 2008 5:27 AM (in response to badchess)Jill Greenberg bad
Arnold Newman Good:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://k53.pbase.com/o4/98/316398/1/61501604.Portraito fGermanindustrialistAlfriedKruppJuly61963inEssenGermany.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pbase.com /omoses/image/61501604&h=416&w=339&sz=52&tbnid=i9r1FcsvQ-IJ::&tbnh=125&tbnw=102&prev=/imag es%3Fq%3DKrupp%2Bportrait&usg=__s-jimRpy7gheFwxxliF8xajc46M=&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=2 &ct=image&cd=1 -
2. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
Wade S Zimmerman Sep 16, 2008 7:18 AM (in response to badchess)Nothing new when it comes to newspapers and magazine photographers?
They are a different kind of animal. -
3. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
(Peter_Figen) Sep 17, 2008 12:13 AM (in response to badchess)The strangest thing about this is who the hell is going to want to hire her for anything in the future. She committed a gross breach of trust, regardless of what her personal views were and I would think this is the kind of thing that can sink a career. -
4. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
shoot me now-d3u3se Sep 17, 2008 1:06 AM (in response to badchess)Agreed. I read that she said that it was irresponsible of the Atlantic to hire her, given her views (it's *their* fault). What a total load of crap -
5. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
Laurentiu G Todie Sep 17, 2008 1:24 AM (in response to badchess)and the cow had the nerve to speak of sophistication : ) -
6. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
Ramona Dear Sep 17, 2008 3:25 AM (in response to badchess)I wonder if her career will suffer because of this ...? or if the publicity is what she wanted ... notoriety. Afterall, she publicly stated what she had done ... otherwise would anyone have known? -
7. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
Laurentiu G Todie Sep 17, 2008 4:09 AM (in response to badchess)I'm not going to give a link to her pictures
('cause I won't contribute to her publicity stunt)
but angry high school idiot kids have more imagination and skill than she has
(my opinion as a retoucher and photographer)
she draws "inspiration" from obama, the unsophisticated/shameless critic of pig lipstick -
8. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
Ramona Dear Sep 17, 2008 4:35 AM (in response to badchess)"I'm not going to give a link to her pictures
('cause I won't contribute to her publicity stunt)
but angry high school idiot kids have more imagination and skill than she has (my opinion as a retoucher and photographer).."
Ditto! -
9. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
Hudechrome-sd9sPI Sep 17, 2008 5:22 AM (in response to badchess)From Greenberg:
She says in the Post: "Some of my artwork has been pretty anti-Bush, so maybe it was somewhat irresponsible for [The Atlantic] to hire me."
So then, do the criticisms also apply to Arnold Newman? he did a better job, imo, but the result is similar in nature.
They are both political statememnts. -
10. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
badchess Sep 17, 2008 6:13 AM (in response to badchess)I'm going to go out on a limb and say yes (depending on the circumstances). Make your political statements on your own dime.
If you are hired to take a picture of someone you should do what you are hired to do and not let your political beliefs get in the way.
As to the McCain thing, I'm sure she will get more business then ever, sadly. And remember, this is the same chick who took candy from kids to make them cry for her photos. -
11. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
Ramona Dear Sep 17, 2008 6:32 AM (in response to badchess)"Members of the Society of Professional Journalists believe that public enlightenment is the forerunner of justice and the foundation of democracy. The duty of the journalist is to further those ends by seeking truth and providing a fair and comprehensive account of events and issues. Conscientious journalists from all media and specialties strive to serve the public with thoroughness and honesty. Professional integrity is the cornerstone of a journalist's credibility. Members of the Society share a dedication to ethical behavior and adopt this code to declare the Society's principles and standards of practice."
... THAT is what being a photojournalist is all about. she is a joke. -
12. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
Hudechrome-sd9sPI Sep 17, 2008 7:21 AM (in response to badchess)Showing McCain as a strong, stalwart man would be as much a political statement as any other pov. The two other portraits I saw of hers were very different and neither particularly photo journalistic from my perspective.
I don't do pj, so I don't know where the cutoff point is, but I am certain that would vary greatly with the publication. I think she and Atlantic both bear responsibility. I regularly see photo journalism here in Portland that paint the subject with a bias from the medium.
FWIW, I didn't care for that shot of McCain. She failed in my book in even accomplishing that what apparently she set out to do.
Finally, her own account of what she did was even worse than the photo. -
13. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
Wade S Zimmerman Sep 17, 2008 9:59 AM (in response to badchess)But wait a second aren't you guys not interested in representing the the truth but instead to depict your subject as you prefer them to be?
Isn't that the criticism of my work it is to accurate. For instance grand central station as being under exposed and all the examples of the right exposure in your minds made it a very bright space even though it is not really bright at all.
What about all the techniques you sue that I say are going way beyond the need to even use photography as a medium.
What's the difference from what she did and from what all of you do.
I say none, except she is more honest in saying that she distorts the truth.
Hey wait you guys say that as well.
Nothing wrong with hypocrisy I guess.
Oh I know but this is political and you guys all happen to expect Mccain to win but it is ok to say nasty and unworthy things about Obama.
It won't work know one is buying it. -
14. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
(PShock) Sep 17, 2008 10:22 AM (in response to badchess)Photographically, I am a fan of her work. Not so much that I want to emulate it but I appreciate the skill required to develop such a signature style. A cursory glance is all that's required to know an image is hers. That's not easy to achieve. (I don't care for everything of course, but some of it I rather like.)
> THAT is what being a photojournalist is all about. she is a joke ....
Ethics in journalism doesn't come into play here. I think you're confusing journalism with editorial - two very different things. The Atlantic isn't an "unbiased" newspaper (if there is such a thing), it's an editorial magazine where obvious "slants" are published all the time. Jill Greenberg isn't a photojournalist, she's (mostly) an editorial photographer. Posting her "agenda'd" image on her website is certainly wrong but it has nothing to do with photojournalism. She trampled on the client's trust - not the public's, (which is what your SPJ quote is referring to).
> Showing McCain as a strong, stalwart man would be as much a political statement as any other pov.
Absolutely. The mere act of image selection exhibits a bias. I photographed our current president during a speech for a cover of a magazine a couple of years ago. There were plenty of images where the man didn't look too, uhm intelligent - which would fit the perception by many ... and several that portrayed him as strong, confident and smart. Either version would be "true", and/or technically "ethical", but I'm in marketing so the favorable image was naturally used.
-phil -
15. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
Ramona Dear Sep 17, 2008 10:48 AM (in response to badchess)This isn't political to me at all ... and if I may say "again" that she did state what she had done, so she was not dishonest in the least. She wanted notoriety ... she got it.
maybe I can shoot McCain's wife, or even Palin in an unflattering position ... and get my own notoriety!!! nah ... -
16. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
Laurentiu G Todie Sep 17, 2008 11:21 AM (in response to badchess)she did what she did
we spoke what we spoke
I have a tendency to insult insulting ******** for their insults
(what's the problem, wade? : ) -
17. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
Nick Decker Sep 17, 2008 11:32 AM (in response to badchess)>She failed in my book in even accomplishing that what apparently she set out to do.
Agreed. I don't think it succeeds as a photo, regardless of what point she was trying to make. I usually like her photos, though. -
18. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
badchess Sep 17, 2008 12:43 PM (in response to badchess)Oh I know but this is political and you guys all happen to expect McCain to win but it is ok to say nasty and unworthy things about Obama.
Doesn't this belong in the photoshop lounge...
It is OK to say nasty and unworthy things about Obama, but not if you are paid to say good things about him. Or to bring it back to photography, if Obama handed you a stack of hundred dollar bills and said I want a good picture for my web site, and you lit him to look bad, you are not doing the job you agreed on.
Of course I don't know what her contract with the magazine said, and the magazine went with the photo, so they must not have been upset with the final result, so for them to be upset now is a bit of a stretch as well. -
19. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
Wade S Zimmerman Sep 17, 2008 3:54 PM (in response to badchess)Philip this was written in context not out of context. THere really would have probably been a very different bent on this if it were done to someone other then a person these contributors liked. It would probably OK with them and they get a lot more political here then the statement I wrote and you quoted.
As far as the publication is concerned perhaps they were looking for publicity themselves and probably couldn't care less if she got some or not. But they hired her and they know what McCain looks like, a bit like a screwball, and so they would be clearly able to tell if there was something amiss about the image, all they had to do is look at it.
Different if she took an image of his head and torso and placed in a background of a place he was not present and made claims of some kind in relation to this falsehood.
BTW Mccain scares me, doesn't he frighten any of you? -
20. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
Ozpeter Sep 17, 2008 6:22 PM (in response to badchess)> BTW Mccain scares me, doesn't he frighten any of you?
In the photo forum I suspect it would be good to pretend we've not heard of him or the other candidates. -
21. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
Ramón G Castañeda Sep 17, 2008 6:24 PM (in response to badchess)I agree with Peter. Obama scares me too. -
22. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
Wade S Zimmerman Sep 17, 2008 7:01 PM (in response to badchess)You see Peter it is ok for some of you to express your views but not for those who disagree.
As Ramón just demonstrated! -
23. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
Ozpeter Sep 17, 2008 7:40 PM (in response to badchess)I'm just making a suggestion based on extensive knowledge of how such discussions rapidly spiral downwards other than in forums where people expect to have them. -
24. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
<shep> Sep 17, 2008 7:50 PM (in response to badchess)>BTW Mccain scares me, doesn't he frighten any of you?
>Obama scares me too.
Hopper scares me.
8o
;) -
25. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
Wade S Zimmerman Sep 17, 2008 8:01 PM (in response to badchess)Ok Hopper Scares me as well.
But the puppies are great.
Have you notice how she has gone from an amateur photographer to a professional level photographer with her ability to focus in on things that interest her.
Makes a big difference when you love what you do and in photography you bond with your subject. Even if it is not alive. -
26. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
Ramón G Castañeda Sep 17, 2008 9:13 PM (in response to badchess)I'm not a conservative, far from it. I'm a registered Democrat and usually vote Democratic. But Obama scares me because I don't know how he got there, what he wants, what kind of executives he can gather around himself, I don't know anything about the man. He claims he wants change, but he doesn't say to what.
History shows demagogues can get very far that way, too far, -
27. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
Hudechrome-sd9sPI Sep 17, 2008 9:35 PM (in response to badchess)Interesting word, demagogue:
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=5258 -
28. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
shoot me now-d3u3se Sep 18, 2008 1:21 AM (in response to badchess)Good link.
FWIW, politics seems to have become akin to a team spectator sport, where the fans chant, "We're Great! You Suck!" on the sidelines while their heroes do battle. It really is rather appalling. -
29. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
greenjumpyone Sep 18, 2008 2:10 AM (in response to badchess)Hopper scares me. 8)
ahhh, my job here is done! ;) :D
Have you notice how she has gone from an amateur photographer to a professional level photographer with her ability to focus in on things that interest her.
Thank you Wade. :) Not at all sure that's true, but thanks! ;) -
30. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
badchess Sep 18, 2008 2:59 AM (in response to badchess)Not sure what you mean Wade, but I think OzPeter speaks wisdom. -
31. Re: evil bad photographer, no cookie for you
Laurentiu G Todie Sep 18, 2008 6:26 AM (in response to badchess)sometimes
(mostly when his lips are moving; when they don't, he isn't : )


