16 Replies Latest reply: Sep 25, 2008 11:58 PM by John Joslin RSS

    This is all your fault

    Wade S Zimmerman Community Member
      http://kevxml2a.verizon.net/_1_2ND6TO10K4L461__vzn.isp/apnws/story.htm?kcfg=apart&sin=D93B A0F00&qcat=science&ran=25846&passqi=&feed=ap&top=1

      You have no sense of loyalty or professional pride and just look at the consequences of your action.

      You don't know what you got till it'sgone how true!

      And for you digital i]users who have never used Kodachrome I can only say you make me sick.
        • 1. Re: This is all your fault
          Fred Nirque Community Member
          I'll probably get yelled at for this, but good riddance. I never could see what the fuss was about, and never could get used to the stuff personally.

          Expensive, fussy to expose with zero latitude and a pain to get processed - why would you bother? There were better films in later years anyhow. Maybe not as permanent, but as good or better in colour rendition and with far more user friendliness in both exposure and processing.
          • 2. Re: This is all your fault
            Wade S Zimmerman Community Member
            I never had a problem with it and kind of liked it.
            • 3. Re: This is all your fault
              Ozpeter Community Member
              > I never had a problem with it and kind of liked it.

              I got the impression you really, really liked it, Wade!

              But like it or not, the passing of any audiovisual medium into history does give one a kind of sinking feeling - I sympathise.
              • 4. Re: This is all your fault
                Community Member
                Well I like Kodachrome enough that I recently bought another 20 rolls. K64 and especially the discontinued K25 drum scanned at 8000 ppi is just amazing. It is hard to describe exactly why I like it so much, but it's probably the same reason audiophiles still listen to vinyl.
                • 5. Re: This is all your fault
                  Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                  Not an apt comparison, Peter. Vinyl lovers are gluttons for punishment.
                  It still amazes me that they even prefer vinyl to the live microphone!
                  OTOH, Kodachrome, even K64 (in 120 anyway) is as noise free as anything ever produced in film, save Tech Pan. The color palette is way different however.

                  In 1988 or thereabouts, I shot a job for Country Home mag and I used both K64 and Velvia. The magazine threw out all the K64 except for that which I had no doubles, the portraits of the gardener particularly. I was agahst at the red faces when I saw the article from K64. They could not handle it any more, I guess.
                  • 6. Re: This is all your fault
                    Community Member
                    Wether you liked it or not, just the way it was designed and processed is something to appreciate but then again I have always admired dye transfers :-)
                    • 7. Re: This is all your fault
                      Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                      Ditto, although i feel that Inkjet has surpassed it, probably due to the editing capabilities befroe pushing "Print". i never cared for the rather crude adjustments to color after dying the matrixes. But then, it did give a uniqueness to each print, not unlike subtle gold toning with Nelson Gold on Portriga.
                      • 8. Re: This is all your fault
                        Ramón G Castañeda Community Member
                        Lawrence,

                        "Vinyl lovers" are folks who were scared out of their wits by some of the early digital recordings issued on CD.

                        I still keep my original copy of a DG digital recording on a CD of Vivaldi's Four Seasons, with Trevor Pinnock conducting some ensemble and a butcher by the name of Simon Standage (or something like that) masquerading as a violinist.

                        Easily the ugliest recording I've ever bought and/or listened to.

                        The fault lies with the engineers, of course, which at that time were struggling to learn how to make digital recordings.

                        Perhaps those clinging to Kodachrome were similarly scared off by early digital photography.

                        (Gosh, I hope Ozpeter wasn't involved in the aforementioned recording!)
                        • 9. Re: This is all your fault
                          Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                          Actually Ramon, I was involved and I concur with your findings. The early CD attempts with the CSO with Reiner was ghastly. However, so were some of the Moody Blues and others so I found a CD of work done in the period I was t Universal Recording and it also sounded harsh.

                          The reason was not bad engineering on the part of the basic recording. These masters tapes were recorded hot because on the way to final vinyl mastering, losses occurred, so to compensate, the originals are purposely over amped, so to speak.

                          Now the stupid part was not to recognize this when analog to digital was done. I founs myself reaching for the equalizers we had to work with to try and tame them and alas! No equalizers to be had (Tone controls are not equalizers!).

                          The latest revision of the CSO Strauss recordings by Reiner are vastly improved, yet I still want to equalize a bit more.

                          It is also important to understand that even at the master disc cutting, engineers aimed at middle of the road equalizing so some vinyls also sound a little to hot. But after a couple of playings, well, sic transit high end! :-)
                          • 10. Re: This is all your fault
                            Community Member
                            I think vinyl lovers are really history buffs and don't want to admit it. It certainly isn't the sound. After all there is nothing stopping the recording industry of duplicating a record with all the hisses and scratches onto a cd.
                            I had the opportunity of listening to a record on a crank operated player. Those records are extremely old. My guess is somewheres in the 20's. I am not very good with dates, so I could easily be way off. But the thought of listening to a piece of history is kind of cool.
                            • 11. Re: This is all your fault
                              Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                              History is part of it.

                              I was 7 when introduced to classical music...the Rachmaninoff 2nd Piano with Artur Rubenstein...on 10 sides of 78rpm records. I still remember that experience. Holding my breath waiting for the record to change, having to flip a stack of 5 discs upside down on the spindle, getting forever burned into my brain exactly where each record started and stopped so that even today I know were these places are.

                              Thank the industry for LP records! :-)
                              • 12. Re: This is all your fault
                                shoot me now-d3u3se Community Member
                                Say what you want, there is a quality to vinyl that doesn't exist on digital media, and I'm talking about quiet vinyl sans pops and ticks. Is it better? Probably not technically, but it *is* different. I suppose I prefer it because I grew up listening to analog and the LPs just sound "right". CDs, in some cases, can be unrelentingly annoying.
                                • 13. Re: This is all your fault
                                  Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member
                                  Yes they can, but consider this.

                                  Some years ago, Sheffield direct to disc did some recordings in three formats: Digital, analog Direct to disc and analog tape. When it was done, the Sheffield people said that the digital was faithful to the sound from the live mikes but they preferred the D toD anyway.

                                  Sound recording, like photography is just that and as such has a "sound" of it's own, and like paper choices in printing, affects the outcome. All my work in photoediting becomes almost secondary to the paper on which I print, sometimes to the detriment of the image but to others, what I call detriment they call beautiful!

                                  Current recordings of solo piano is so accurate on CD that I can hear the timbre differences between adjacent notes, as if I were actually at the keyboard, and boy, do I love that!! Anf that's through my 36 year old KLH 6's. :-)
                                  • 14. Re: This is all your fault
                                    Community Member
                                    I believe there is a big difference in the older 78rpm records vs. the later 33 1/3 rpm records. For one they were much thicker. I would like to say less prone to scratches but I haven't been around them enough to say for sure.
                                    Yeah I really prefer Cd's just for the clear sound. Same reason I love dslr's no film grain. But on the other hand I prefer a printed book over a pdf any day. But I do think pdf's are getting better, especially with the larger monitors that are available today compared to back when pdf's first came out. As the screens on the hand-held units get larger then pdf's will really take off.
                                    • 15. Re: This is all your fault
                                      Ramón G Castañeda Community Member
                                      >but I haven't been around them enough to say for sure.

                                      It shows, Silkrooster! Lol ! :D

                                      Yes 78rpm record got scratches, and they also got cracked and chipped and
                                      • 16. Re: This is all your fault
                                        John Joslin Community Member
                                        ... unless you used a bamboo needle, they wore through!