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1. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Larry G. Schneider Oct 22, 2008 12:28 PM (in response to Skullmaker)The answer to your last question is probably never. Once a new version is marketed, there will never be any more updates for existing software (InDesign excepted). -
2. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
rcraighead Oct 23, 2008 5:23 AM (in response to Skullmaker)That is why I must have AICS2 and 3 on my computer. I CAN"T do certain things in AICS3 because of bugs. I agree with Hans, Adobe needs to address glaring bugs in their software, even if they ARE the only show in town.
I would LOVE to use the new features in CS4, but if the old bugs aren't fixed, I'll be stuck with THREE versions of AI to do the job of ONE program.
I am thinking specifically of CS3's bug when skewing mesh distortion objects with the free transform tool. Can someone tell me if this is fixed in CS4? -
3. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
JungleNYC Oct 23, 2008 6:27 AM (in response to Skullmaker)Not to pile on, but there are also major issues w/ Leopard's SPACES. As in, if you use Spaces, you can't use CS3 (or Office 08 for that matter).
Maybe not Adobe's fault, but the fact remains that there are a TON of bugs left to address in CS3 and even CS2. It's amazing that Adobe is pushing out CS4 (and not 64 bit for macs) without addressing these well-documented problems. -
4. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
JETalmage Oct 23, 2008 9:21 AM (in response to Skullmaker)I think "piling on" is both appropriate and called-for here. I'm one of those whose norm is to pre-order new releases.
Serious bugs that have gone uncorrected for the entire duration of Illustrator CS3 have convinced me that Adobe policy toward product defects is not trustworthy. Although I seriously desire the 15-years-late multi-page capability, CS3 has pursuaded me to wait for the inevitable reports of serious bugs, the seemingly policy-driven 2-at-maximum bug fixes shortly after release, and see what we are truly left with in CS4.
My own situation is further compounded by utter dissatisfaction with the Master Collection bundle. Far too many installer / update / activation problems. No clear definition of how the quagmire of Bridge-related issues will be affected if I decide to update only some of the Master Collection apps and keep the rest installed in CS3 version.
JET -
5. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Mordy Golding Oct 23, 2008 9:52 AM (in response to Skullmaker)I know the installer has been completely redone -- it's actually a pretty smooth process now. Hopefully, the installer nightmare issues of the past are behind us. I do believe that Adobe created somewhat of a monster with the Master Collection. And like you, I wonder what it means to purchase a Master Collection (or any Suite for that matter) in one version, but not to upgrade all of the components in subsequent versions. It almost feels like once we make one purchasing decision for a suite, we can only move upwards to higher-cost suites, not the other way around.
I do know that Adobe has gotten gazillions of requests to create "BTO" (Build To Order) suites, Where you pay a price and pick your own apps. However, from my sources at Adobe, building such an infrastructure is a MASSIVE undertaking. Adobe has had this in mind when building the new installer modules for CS4, but I think such a capability is still a ways off.
:) Mordy -
6. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Wade S Zimmerman Oct 23, 2008 10:41 AM (in response to Skullmaker)First the Mesh problem and the free transform tool issue is gone. The extra points for outline stroke is gone and the installers work pretty well. Not only that in the past if you had the current version of the suites ind=stalled you could not install an older version you first had to install the older version and then the newer version. That seems to be gone as I had problem loading the ID CS3 app while I already had the CS 4 version installed with the Master collection. The big problem that seems to be solved with the installers is to uninstall one app and then reinstall just that one problems actually works quite well now.
The only problem I encountered was uninstall PPro and then when reinstalling I got an error about updating a font, whoever that did not seem to rely effect the install which seems complete.
For Illustrator a lot of bugs where fixed although many of them did not effect me. There is however a couple of bugs that seemed to be introduced. One is really minor and the other could be a problem and a big head ache.
Here are the two bugs I did not discover them they are posted elsewhere, though one is minor they are both annoying and make life difficult.
The minor one first.
If you give you text optical kerning and then go to manually change the factor you will notice in the character panel the number in the kerning input field has parenthesis if you forget to delete the parenthesis and enter a new number and hit return you'll get an error message which you cannot be dismissed. You will have to force quit.
Only happens with Optical selected. And if you select the number and the parenthesis and enter a number al will be well.
The other bug is more annoying and hopefully can be corrected in an update. Justified text, place the cursor near the end of a line which is not the end of a paragraph and hit the shift return key, the soft return will be record as such but the behavior will look like a hard break as the line will not redraw as justified.
This is a though bug to live with. In ID this works as expected. -
7. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
(Clint_Weatherwalks) Oct 23, 2008 10:52 AM (in response to Skullmaker)Since the second bug hasn't been fixed since at least CS1, I don't expect it to be fixed in any updates to CS4.
In fact, I've never seen any of the issues that I've had with Illustrator fixed in a point release. I don't know what it is that Adobe fixes in the point releases to Illustrator, but it's not anything that helps me, that's for sure. And most of the issues that I have with Illustrator have been documented here in the forums for years, so it's not like they're rare or related to my hardware/software setup.
Like James, I'm leery of buying any more updates to Illustrator, since I know that no bugs will be fixed before the next paid release. If Adobe wants any more of my cash, they had better learn to fix things after they have sold the product to its customers. -
8. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Wade S Zimmerman Oct 23, 2008 11:07 AM (in response to Skullmaker)Clint it was fixed in CS 4.It has been stated many times here on the forum the Mesh tool and free transform tool is fixed. -
9. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
(Clint_Weatherwalks) Oct 23, 2008 11:10 AM (in response to Skullmaker)Wade, I was referring to the second bug in your post that had to do with justified text. Am I misunderstanding that this is still an issue in CS4? -
10. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Wade S Zimmerman Oct 23, 2008 11:37 AM (in response to Skullmaker)Yes you are correct that is not an issue I understand in CS 3 but in CS4.
I do not have CS 3 on this boot at the moment but can try it to see if it was there before.
An annoying bug yes. -
11. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
(Clint_Weatherwalks) Oct 23, 2008 11:47 AM (in response to Skullmaker)Wade, the justified text bug is in CS3, and has been there since at least CS2. It may have been there as early as CS1, but I don't have a copy of that handy to check. -
12. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Wade S Zimmerman Oct 23, 2008 11:51 AM (in response to Skullmaker)Hmm, I don't know about you but I am going to file a bug report this is really not acceptable though CS4 is a great upgrade the text engine has got to be brought up to date this is something that can and has to be fixed in a least a point release once and for all. -
13. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Skullmaker Oct 23, 2008 12:28 PM (in response to Skullmaker)Wade, you are talking about one or two problems have been solved in version CS4 out of the many bugs in CS3.
The topic is that I wasted my money in CS3 due to the many bugs that are not fixed. I am talking about that Adobe company is showing any interest to rectify this program full of bugs. Please read my questions again and respond them accordantly if you can. Thank you for your input! -
14. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Wade S Zimmerman Oct 23, 2008 12:55 PM (in response to Skullmaker)No there many fixes made I can't list them all but it was reviewed for me but my mind is not such I can recall them all.
But it is your call what you do. I hope you make the right decision.
I have never had a problem placing a tiff in Illustrator so I cannot respond to that, I do not know what you refer to as the thickness of stroke problem, you have to state exactly what the problem is for instance I do not know what you refer to as the color palette problem unless you refer to the small list not sticking after restart problem which is fixed but that is a swatch problem and that is gone. -
15. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Doug Katz Oct 24, 2008 10:24 AM (in response to Skullmaker)Wade, do you know if CS4 fixes the problem of excess points after an outline stroke command? -
16. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Mordy Golding Oct 24, 2008 10:36 AM (in response to Skullmaker)That is indeed fixed in CS4, Doug.
:) Mordy -
17. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Doug Katz Oct 24, 2008 10:45 AM (in response to Skullmaker)Thanks, Mordy. You surfer dude you. -
18. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Skullmaker Oct 24, 2008 11:06 AM (in response to Skullmaker)Hello Everyone,
The topic is that NON of the bugs of CS3 have NOT been fixed. NO PATCH so far to fix ALL THE BUGS!
The point is that I wasted about $700.00 for a bunch of programs that do not work correctly.
PLEASE READ the questions posted.
Please post your CS4 bugs and how Adobe company wont care to fix them in a new discussion. Thank you!
Can someone respond to my questions posted? -
19. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Wade S Zimmerman Oct 24, 2008 11:42 AM (in response to Skullmaker)Well the answer is don't upgrade save your money and I suggest not wasting your time posting here as well. After all time is money as well.
However CS4 is got a lot going for it. That is your answer if you are looking for a path and want to know if there is a patch and you own CS2 and 3 just run the updater and see what the updater says. There is your answer.
That is the answer is up to you. -
20. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Jesseham-JAh5zI Oct 24, 2008 3:50 PM (in response to Skullmaker)I think it's fair to be frustrated by the fact that there are a number of bugs that were introduced by CS3 (extra points, swatch view, transform bug to name a few) that were not there before, and were not fixed in CS3. No, to fix them, you need to buy the next version, which will likely come with it's share of bugs that, history shows, won't get fixed until CS5. I guess it's the nature of the game, but it still sucks that Adobe won't fix the bugs that it introduced without an additional fee. -
21. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Skullmaker Oct 24, 2008 10:08 PM (in response to Skullmaker)Thank you Jesse!, you did understood the question. You right, Adobe does not care about providing a bug free program. The standard of their ethic has drop down to the floor.
Wade already have the CS4 with bugs (and he wont get a patch, unless he purchase CS5)
So the question remains: Why I should trust Adobe? NON of the Bugs have been fixed in CS3!
So should I wait until probably CS25 to wait for Adobe to have the act together?
Does any one know if Adobe will care to release a Patch for CS3? -
22. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Wade S Zimmerman Oct 24, 2008 11:43 PM (in response to Skullmaker)We know they will not release a patch.
BTW do you know a software that does not have bugs? Now don't tell me Freehand! -
23. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
JETalmage Oct 25, 2008 5:01 AM (in response to Skullmaker)If history is telling, CS3 will not be fixed. So the solution is simple: Adobe owes everyone a refund for Illustrator CS3. It's a defective product.
History does not suggest that will happen, either.
;-)
JET -
24. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Mordy Golding Oct 25, 2008 6:46 PM (in response to Skullmaker)Apparently, Adobe's software license states that sales of the product is provided "AS IS". In addition, I have pulled the following from Adobe's EULA (End User License Agreement):
"...Non-substantial variation of performance from the Documentation does not establish a warranty right... ...If the Software does not perform substantially in accordance with the Documentation, the entire liability of Adobe and its affiliates and your exclusive remedy will be limited to either, at Adobes option, replacement of the Software or refund of the license fee you paid for the Software. THE LIMITED WARRANTY SET FORTH IN THIS SECTION GIVES YOU SPECIFIC LEGAL RIGHTS. YOU MAY HAVE ADDITIONAL RIGHTS UNDER LAW WHICH VARY FROM JURISDICTION TO JURISDICTION. ADOBE DOES NOT SEEK TO LIMIT YOUR WARRANTY RIGHTS TO ANY EXTENT NOT PERMITTED BY LAW..."
I am assuming that a "bug" would seem to qualify as a "non-substantial variation of performance from the documentation". Although on some level, depending on what kind of work you do, maybe a specific bug does qualify as "substantial" for you. And if that's the case, I'd at least consider making such a case and exercise my warranty rights, as stated in Adobe's EULA.
:) Mordy -
25. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Wade S Zimmerman Oct 25, 2008 10:27 PM (in response to Skullmaker)Which means you an probably get your money back but you lose your license. -
26. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
(Gary_Newman) Oct 26, 2008 6:51 AM (in response to Skullmaker)You could then use the refunded money to purchase Canvas. Or Freehand, which you can probably find on eBay. -
27. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Wade S Zimmerman Oct 26, 2008 8:30 AM (in response to Skullmaker)And all your troubles will go away since you have superior software. And if you choose Canvas enjoy your new PC it does not work on the Mac. Have fun! -
28. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Mordy Golding Oct 26, 2008 12:23 PM (in response to Skullmaker)With today's market, if you got your money back, you could just buy enough shares in Adobe stock to own the company. Then take everyone from the Flash and Dreamweaver teams and force them to FreeCanStratorDRAW! (or "freakin' draw! for short).
:) Mordy -
29. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Wade S Zimmerman Oct 26, 2008 2:07 PM (in response to Skullmaker)Do you really think so Mordy?
WOW! -
30. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Skullmaker Oct 27, 2008 8:26 AM (in response to Skullmaker)You are funny Mordy!
About the legal part applies to almost more than 50% of the CS3 complaint users. They have said in their complaints in this forum that they still have to use CS2 to do thing that CS3 CANNOT DO. And for that matter, you need to keep using CS2 because CS4 still have bugs (like Wade said). Adobe is going backwards, from Good to Bad.
Since Adobe 88 (first version of Illustrator) until CS2 we have received updates or patches for their versions. Probably that is why Adobe provides the little program called "Adobe Updater". But it looks to me very deceiving if Adobe stops providing updates or patches.
James Talmage is right, if we NEED keep using CS2 because the newest versions CS3 and CS4 CANNOT DO what the older version does, probably Adobe owes everyone a refund.
I have used Adobe since their first version (Adobe 88) until today, but I not in love with Adobe like Wade is. I think Adobe needs to correct this unethical practice and provide the update or patch to rectified these CRITICAL BUGS in CS3. Annoying bugs you can work around them, the CRITICAL BUGS have to be fix.
Which brings me back to my Original questions that are waiting to be answer:
Why I should trust Adobe? Is going to be an update or a patch for CS3?
Now that I know that CS4 have bugs (according to Wade), should I buy CS4, CS5, CS6, CS7, CS8 or wait until Adobe provides a Bug Free program. Because after all, Wade said that Adobe will not provide any updates or patches. -
31. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
NotInUse Oct 27, 2008 8:34 AM (in response to Skullmaker)The first version was 1.0.1 not 88.
If history holds true to course, CS3 will not be updated now that CS4 has been released. I think someone already posted that. -
32. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Mordy Golding Oct 27, 2008 9:21 AM (in response to Skullmaker)Hans, this is a discussion that we've had on this forum every single time a new version is released. And as people always state, no one has to upgrade anything. Heck, at times, I prefer to turn off my computer and sniff my collection of Pantone markers (maybe that explains other things...)
Seriously though, everyone ultimately has to make the choice that's best for them. If you are having so many issues with Illustrator, why not use something else? Maybe Canvas is a better fit? CorelDRAW?
There is no such thing as a bug-free program. Especially so with a program as large as Illustrator. I don't think that Adobe ever promises that each new version will support everything that every previous version will support. In fact, we've seen full-blown features disappear from versions (remember the Ink Pen?). In any case, each version of Illustrator has its pros and its cons. Technology moves forward. And sometimes, because of the nature of these things, bugs will occur. Ultimately, Adobe sells a product and offers it as is. You buy it, you agree to its terms of use. As I posted earlier, Adobe does stand by its legal obligations, although this is a free country and anyone can challenge those obligations at any time.
:) Mordy -
33. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Skullmaker Oct 27, 2008 9:31 AM (in response to Skullmaker)Hello Scott,
You are right the first version was 1.0, The second version is Adobe 88. Thank you for that.
But do you know by a fact that we got a bad deal with CS3 and no updates or patches are going to be release? If that the case, what assurance do I have that the next version is going to actually work correctly? The CS4 have bugs, meaning another bad program that wont be fix, how can I know that CS5 it will actually work correctly? Why I should trust Adobe?
With CS3 full of CRITICAL BUGS we should get our money back? -
34. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Skullmaker Oct 27, 2008 9:54 AM (in response to Skullmaker)Mordy,
I like the way you think. I never had so many problems with older versions of Illustrator until this CS3 version. I know the programs will have annoying bugs that you have to live with them. But were I disagreed is when you have critical bugs. The company have to fix them because the outcome of the projects depend on them.
Maybe that is why I cannot understand why Adobe is doing such a lousy job today. They have been very good until CS3 version. I learned many years ago how to use Freehand and CorelDraw, but I always preferred Illustrator. I know the program is evolving, That is why I keep AI7, because there are some key features that others version cannot do, but I am not upset about it. I understand we have to move forward.
But today I wonder if I can keep trusting Abobe.
It looks that I can skip CS4 and come back to this forum when CS5 is released. And find out how many and what kind of bugs CS5 will have that Adobe wont care to fix.
Thank you Mordy! -
35. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Chris Cox Oct 27, 2008 5:02 PM (in response to Skullmaker)The Spaces bugs need to be addressed by Apple. There is a reason that Spaces fails with many applications.
Mordy: I wondered why your nose looked like PMS709. -
36. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Wade S Zimmerman Oct 27, 2008 6:39 PM (in response to Skullmaker)709!709! ! 191 maybe but 709? -
37. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
NotInUse Oct 27, 2008 7:31 PM (in response to Skullmaker)Chris.. you got your fingers into Ai now? -
38. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Mordy Golding Oct 28, 2008 4:46 AM (in response to Skullmaker)Nice to see you Chris :)
It's only 709 because my Reflex Blue is all dried up. SIGH.
:) Mordy -
39. Re: Why I should upgrade to CS4?
Chris Cox Oct 28, 2008 5:03 PM (in response to Skullmaker)Scott - I'm not working on Illustrator, but I like to have some idea of what folks are saying/griping about our products. Besides, it's fun to tease Mordy.






