11 Replies Latest reply: Mar 3, 2009 2:32 PM by Fused M RSS

    TEXT-DRIVEN WORKFLOW FOR NEWSPAPER

    Barb Wentzell Community Member
      We're a small community newspaper thinking about switching to InCopy (currently using NewsEdit)
      All reporters, photographers, designers work in the same office. Most stories are written before the pages are layed out based on the amount of advertising so we would be using a text-driven workflow. I've downloaded a trial version of InCopy CS4 and I'm trying to get a feel for how everything will work between InCopy and InDesign.

      Currently the reporters type their stories in templates that show the copy flowing in columns. When these files are brought into InDesign the columns stay and the headers (which are attached) are in a separate text box. The reporters can also attached cutlines to their photos. The designer then just has to import the story and photo into InDesign and resize the two boxes (header and story) and the photo and cutline to fit the space available.

      The only way I can find to have 2 text boxes in InCopy is to make an InDesign document and anchor 2 text boxes (one of which is divided into columns) to the Master Text Frame. I then export this as an .incx file, load my stylesheets and save it as a template file.
      The reporter then opens the template and inputs the story and header in the appropriate boxes and saves it as an .incx file.
      I (the designer) then opens the page layout and places the story. In order to resize anything the story has to be checked out. Then because the boxes are anchored, I have to go to Anchored Object menu, change the Options and then Release. I have to do the same with the photos and cutline.
      If I haven't put you to sleep yet, here's my question.
      Am I totally out in left field or am I on the right track as to how this should work? Is there a better way to make this work.
      Any editorial changes are made on the page by the designer and there's only ever one reporter working on a story, so I think the checking in and out of stories might not pertain to us a lot except for when resizing them when they're on the page.
      Also when I draw a text box for a pull quote on top of a story the only way I can change the runaround is to go to Anchored Object menu and release the story text.

      Any help or suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated.

      Barb
        • 1. Re: TEXT-DRIVEN WORKFLOW FOR NEWSPAPER
          BobLevine CommunityMVP
          > Any editorial changes are made on the page by the designer

          Sort of defeats the whole purpose, IMO.

          There are any number of ways to handle this in a small workgroup
          environment. You can start off with Word and place that. The designer
          does all the formatting and then exports the InCopy content.

          Depending upon the setup that can be in an assignment or just let them
          open the InDesign file.

          Or...you can start out with InCopy using pretermined styles and sizes
          and then place the InCopy stories in the InDesign layout. This has its
          benefits since you're going to have a far better idea of word count,
          column inches, etc.

          You sort of lost me as far as the anchored frames go. I don't see why
          that's even relevant but I may be missing something here.

          Bob
          • 2. Re: TEXT-DRIVEN WORKFLOW FOR NEWSPAPER
            Barb Wentzell Community Member
            Bob
            You said: You sort of lost me as far as the anchored frames go. I don't see why
            that's even relevant but I may be missing something here.

            We need the headlines and storys to be in separate text boxes in the same InCopy file. That way when the files are placed in InDesign the headline is in one text box and the story is in another which is divided into columns. The only way I can find to accomplish this is to use anchored text frames. If the reporter just makes a new InCopy document and starts typing away, when imported into InDesign everything (headline and story) are in the same text box (nothing is in columns) and the designers then have to cut and paste the headline into a new text box.

            You also said: You can start off with Word and place that. The designer
            does all the formatting and then exports the InCopy content.

            Do you mean the reporters type their stories in Word, we then place them in InDesign and then export the copy so the reporter can make changes? If this is what you mean, I don't see how it could be very efficient as every story would have to be placed then exported and then updated again in InDesign. But as I said before I'm new to InCopy and I'm trying to figure it out as I go.

            Barb
            • 3. Re: TEXT-DRIVEN WORKFLOW FOR NEWSPAPER
              AnneMarie Concepcion CommunityMVP
              You don't have to check out a story to resize it in InDesign. By "resize" I'm assuming you mean "change the size of the text frame." The only time you need to check out anything is when you want to edit the contents of a frame.

              I'm with Bob, I'm kind of wondering why you're considering InCopy. I mean, what aren't you able to do now with NewsEdit that you're hoping you'll be able to do with an InCopy/InDesign workflow?

              Tell us that, and it'll be easier to give you advice/direction. (And no, you can't put the visitors to this forum to sleep when you're talking about your publishing workflow! LOL. That's what we live for.)

              AM
              • 4. Re: TEXT-DRIVEN WORKFLOW FOR NEWSPAPER
                Barb Wentzell Community Member
                Anne-Marie

                We're using InDesign CS2 and want to switch to CS3 or CS4 (I think it's available). Apparently NewsEdit is not compatible with CS3 and we were told they have no plans in the future to make it compatible. So we thought if we have to buy a different program, we may as well stick with Adobe.

                By resizing, I do mean changing the size of the text frame. When I place an InCopy file in InDesign and try to drag on one of the points to enlarge the box I get the error "You must check out contents of this frame in order to make changes." This applies to photos and cutlines also. Is this because I'm using Anchored Text Boxes? The files I place in InDesign consist of 3 boxes the master text frame, the anchored box that contains the headline and the anchored box that contains the story. The master text frame is the only one I can resize, but of course that doesn't matter.

                Again, is there another way to have 2 text boxes in an InCopy document? If not, as I stated before, we would have to place the story, draw another text box and cut and paste the headline into it. I'm trying to make things as simple and easy as I can for both the reporters and the designers.

                Thanks again for your answers and suggestions.
                Barb
                • 5. Re: TEXT-DRIVEN WORKFLOW FOR NEWSPAPER
                  BobLevine CommunityMVP
                  It sounds like you're doing things the hard way. It also sounds like
                  you're using InCopy CS4 with InDesign CS2 and if that's the case, all
                  bets are truly off.

                  If you place the InCopy files in ID you should have no problem resizing
                  the text frame and you can do this with only one InCopy story.

                  Place it and simply drag out the frames with the alt/opt+key held down.
                  You'll get an overset if the first one is too small and you can drag out
                  another frame and they'll be automatically linked.

                  Bob
                  • 6. Re: TEXT-DRIVEN WORKFLOW FOR NEWSPAPER
                    AnneMarie Concepcion CommunityMVP
                    Barbara, I'm sorry but no, you can't have 2 text frames in a native InCopy document. And in the one frame you have to work with, there is no way to divvy it up into columns.

                    It sounds like you might need one of the CMS's built on top of InDesign and InCopy, like Smart Connection Pro/Enterprise or K4. These systems *do* all you to create multiple-framed "article" templates for the InCopy users, along with other features that the stock IC/ID workflow doesn't. But the learning curve is fairly steep (especially in the beginning) and the cost starts at $20K and goes up from there, not including the cost of ID and IC themselves. Quite a difference compared to the $249 per editorial seat cost of a stock IC/ID workflow.

                    In that stock workflow -- which most of my clients use, including community newspapers -- editors write everything in the single frame, and yes, the designers then cut and paste as necessary.

                    A somewhat awkward but doable workaround is that the editors could write the headline on page 1 of the INCX file and then enter a Frame Break from the Type > Insert Break Character menu. InCopy would automatically generate a second page (to create a threaded frame) and put their cursor there. The editors would write the body copy in that frame, or however you want to work it.

                    Then the designers would have a page set up in ID with a small frame for the headline that's threaded to a multicolumned frame for the body. They'd place the INCX file into the first frame, and it would automatically flow into the 2 frames correctly (assuming the headline fits inside the headline frame, if not, they edit it/format it to fit).

                    One of the main benefits of the IC/ID workflow is that the editors can see and edit their text within the context of the design, the layout, instead of marking up paper proofs for the designers to enter. Or, it allows the designers to create pages in ID (with empty text frames for heads, body, sidebars, cutlines etc.) for the editors to fill in with their text from the start.

                    It sounds like you're not looking for this. You're mainly interested in giving the editors a head start in formatting and fitting text without the layout at all. This is a lesser feature of the stock IC/ID workflow. It is most valuable when it's replacing Word as the start of the process. But it sounds like it's no match for what you're able to do with NewsEdit. ;-(

                    I've had other clients ask me how to create multi-framed templates for the editors to use. I wrote a long article about in my InCopyFlow e-zine, which you can read as a post on my InCopySecrets.com blog here:
                    http://incopysecrets.com/working-with-layout-templates.php

                    Maybe that'll help show you what's possible?

                    AM
                    • 7. Re: TEXT-DRIVEN WORKFLOW FOR NEWSPAPER
                      Barb Wentzell Community Member
                      Thanks for all the info Anne-Marie. I now have a better understanding of how InCopy works. The information on layout shells was quite interesting, but I don't think it would work for us.

                      Hopefully in some future update, you'll be able to have 2 text frames in an InCopy document or at least multi columns. Until then our reporters will have to type everything in 1 frame and the designers will separate the headline from the story in InDesign. I miss NewsEdit already!

                      Does anybody out there know of a program similar to NewsEdit that's compatible with InDesign CS3 or CS4????

                      Barb
                      • 8. Re: TEXT-DRIVEN WORKFLOW FOR NEWSPAPER
                        Barb Wentzell Community Member
                        Anne-Marie

                        Would just like your opinion on something.

                        Based on what I've stated earlier, is InCopy maybe more than we need? I'm getting the feeling that we're buying a luxury cruiser to cross the river when a rowboat would do the job just fine.

                        Barb
                        • 9. Re: TEXT-DRIVEN WORKFLOW FOR NEWSPAPER
                          BobLevine CommunityMVP
                          It's not more than you need...it just doesn't seem to fit with your
                          workflow...like I said earlier, I think you're working backwards.

                          InCopy should be used by the editors/writers to edit content as well as
                          create it.

                          Bob
                          • 10. Re: TEXT-DRIVEN WORKFLOW FOR NEWSPAPER
                            Fused M Community Member
                            Hmmm, perhaps skipping the whole incx workflow and get to working in the document directly?

                            http://www.ctrl-ps.com/products/ctrlcrosstalk
                            • 11. Re: TEXT-DRIVEN WORKFLOW FOR NEWSPAPER
                              Fused M Community Member
                              A shortcut to perhaps the prolem is to go "around" the live-edit workflow and just focus on the .indd file.

                              Take a look att this plug-in, http://www.ctrl-ps.com/products/ctrlcrosstalk