24 Replies Latest reply: Aug 29, 2010 8:51 AM by romeobravo RSS

    Keywording:  fastest approach

    reid thaler Community Member
      I'm finding that keywording 13,000 images is a formidable task. Any recomendations of how to do so efficiently? I wish you could create a list that would appear on the context menu ans select one or more from many..

      Keyword stamping, unless I'm not understanding it right, confinds you to just one or one group of keywords.

      Also it's awkward to add keyword to the keyword list as then the file strip swithces to that keyword, instead of staying with the collection I was keywording.

      Guidance?

      Thanks,

      Reid
        • 1. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
          MethodPhoto Community Member
          Phew! That is a task.

          Well

          1) Set up your base keywords.
          2) Use the Keywords sets to refine that list for even more like minded relationships
          3) Find as many in a group as possible and apply the Keyword - it might be faster to type in the Keyword panel rather than drag and drop.
          4) Keep batching through them in large groups (like a pyramid - largest number first, then keep refining)

          5) When you have finally achieved a good proportion, then use the (long winded Find All images with no keywords process so that you can grab the small ones - the process is probably on www.lightroomextra.com)

          Other than that - dogged perseverence!!!

          Good Luck

          Richard Earney

          --
          http://inside-lightroom.com
          • 2. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
            Community Member
            It takes time but once you've done it finding the photos is so much easier. I did roughly 800 photos in a weekend, i.e. applied keywords, added location, scene (general view, two, group, couple, single, full lenght, half-length, headshot) and subject qualifier (male, female, men, women, mixed) codes in the IPTC part.

            Here are most of the keywords I am using currently (in case this helps someone in constructing their own sets). I am not claiming that this is perfect in anyways and the list has not been constructed using any scientific methods.

            Activities
            - e.g. different sports as under categories
            Animals
            - e.g. birds, dogs etc. as subcategories
            Architecture
            Bands
            - names of the bands as subcategories
            City
            - some not too well defined subcategories like street, square
            Events
            -e.g. weddings, Christmas, Travel etc. as subcategories
            Indoors
            Outdoors
            People
            - Relatives/Friends/Acquaintances
            - Names of the persons as subsubcategories
            - Strangers
            Landscapes
            Nature
            - e.g. lake, river etc. as subcategories
            Seasons
            - winter, spring, summer and autumn as subcategories
            Things
            - e.g. guitars, cameras, etc.
            Vehicles
            - e.g. cars, motorbikes as subcategories
            - Brands as subsubcategories
            • 3. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
              don solomon Community Member
              I do my keywording in Bridge (scrollable category list with unlimited sub categories--and categories can be closed or expanded to show sub cats). Then, import the metadata into LR. In general, much faster at this time.
              • 4. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
                reid thaler Community Member
                Don,

                If I understand correctly, your approach would work to add keywords to the IPTC data, but wouldn't add them to the hierarchical list in LR.--is that right? So, I don't think your approach would work. Correct me if I'm missing something.

                On the other side, if you add hierachical keywords in LR, then you you could export them to the IPTC metadata.
                • 5. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
                  reid thaler Community Member
                  Can you have hierachical keywords in Bridge? Can you important and export keyword sets in Bridge and/or LR?

                  Thanks,

                  Reid
                  • 6. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
                    don solomon Community Member
                    Reid,

                    That may be true--I haven't checked that and can't now because I am not at my editing machine. However, to me it dosesn't matter. I have 200,000 plus images already keyworded (in IPTC)and all I really care about is the fastest way to get that done.

                    I did look at the Keywording functions in LR and found the necessity to use dropdown preset fixed limit (9 subcats) categories to be a workflow PIA. Some of my categories in Bridge have 30 + subset cats. Nevermind the time consumed setting up presets, using it would be much slower than in Bridge (at least for the nature of my shooting categories and sub cats and the precision needed for my keywording).

                    Like many other features of LR at this time, the feature design of keywording is very basic and aimed more at the casual or beginning user--at least ones with rather uncomplicated needs--with relatively small collections--or one that have not already been keyworded.

                    I do find the keywording box in LR very useful though when I need to add a keyword that I missed putting in in Bridge.

                    I should add that I am at this point only doing a careful experimentation with LR with 10K images(and comparing it to my present workflow) to see what if any of its features will be worth adding to that workflow, so I have no plans at this time of ingesting my very large collections/archives into it--and I will never undertake to replicate what I have done with keywording elsewhere (Bridge, DAM)in LR presets--I shudder to think of that ordeal :)
                    • 7. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
                      Community Member
                      Reid,
                      For what it's worth, here's how I have been doing it.

                      If you're not using the color labels already, then label all of your photos RED. Then, as you work through the keywording process, change the label to GREEN once your keywording is complete. That makes it easy to sort them according to status, and also to see visually in a group of images, which ones need to be done. My labels are:
                      RED - not processed
                      GREEN - keyworded
                      PURPLE - keyworded AND processed
                      YELLOW - keyworded AND processed AND posted online

                      As for adding new keywords, I just type them into the keyword box and arrange them via drag and drop in the hierarchy later.

                      Paul
                      • 8. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
                        reid thaler Community Member
                        Any other thoughts? Still keywording images...

                        Reid
                        • 9. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
                          don solomon Community Member
                          Paul,

                          Another great attribute of Bridge CS3 is that you can set the keywords to show with the thumbnails , Along with 3 other user selectable types of info. That frees up the color codes for more important uses, allows you to see what the keywording is at a glance--or saves one from having to set color codes at all.

                          This is not an issue of LR vs Bridge, but simply that there are a number of operations that will go faster in Bridge than in LR that can be done before importing to LR. And now that Bridge CS3 is out in final form, it is even faster and more convenient, and a very significant improvement over Bridge 1.
                          • 10. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
                            reid thaler Community Member
                            Don,

                            Just to clarify, the keywording you do in Bridge only shows up in the IPTC, not LR's keywords?

                            Reid
                            • 11. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
                              Casamagnolia-wSzxs8 Community Member
                              Paul,

                              I like your color idea. I had found no use for colors yet so this fits into the way I work. Of course I tell myself I'm going to keyword etc in order starting at the first one as soon as I get home, but in fact that's not how it happens.

                              I never thought of noting that something has been posted. There is one color left. I'm thinking of the following:

                              Red - not processed
                              Yellow - possibly delete
                              Purple - keyworded
                              Blue - keyworded and processed
                              Green - keyworded and processed and posted online
                              • 12. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
                                don solomon Community Member
                                Reid,

                                As far as I can see in a test I just did, the Bridge CS3 keywording shows up everywhere LR entered keywords do. So, unless I have missed something, it is the same.
                                • 13. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
                                  reid thaler Community Member
                                  do you have to sync the metadata in Bridge to see it in LR. Can you tell me your steps, or point me to a post, for the process?

                                  Thanks,

                                  Reid
                                  • 14. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
                                    don solomon Community Member
                                    Reid,

                                    It is easy. Make sure you set 'Save settings to
                                    XMP sidecars" in the Bridge Camera Raw Preferences (Edit menu dropdown..). Then do the keywording.

                                    Next Import to LR. Since the settings are saved in Bridge to sidecars for RAW files, and directly to the headers of DNG, TIF, and JPEG files, LR will read them on import.

                                    If you rework any files in LR from outside in Bridge, or any other app that will write full metadata to file or sidecars, then you will have to import the changes you have made to the metadata from the LR Metadata Dropdown Menu under XMP (import...).
                                    • 15. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
                                      reid thaler Community Member
                                      Don,

                                      I got the syncing to work as you instructed. The keyword that I added in Bridge shows up in the keywords in the right panel, but Idon't see that it's added to the keyword tags on the left panel.

                                      Is it there? where should I look? If not, I don't think that Bridge would help my keywording workflow.

                                      Thanks,

                                      Reid
                                      • 16. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
                                        reid thaler Community Member
                                        Don,

                                        I found the keyword that I added in Bridge, so think I'm figuring it out.

                                        Reid
                                        • 17. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
                                          reid thaler Community Member
                                          Don,

                                          I've been using Bridge as you suggested. I find that if the keywords are already in LR, then it doesn make keywording easier--mainly because I can have smaller thumbs so I can keyword more images at a time.

                                          However, if I want to create a new keyword in Bridge and then import it in LR, then it creates a real challenge as it's hard to drag the new keywords to their correct location.

                                          Also, Bridge only puts previously used keywords in an alphabetical list. It doesn't seem to allow creating hierachical lists like LR.

                                          Thanks for all your help. Are my findings consistent with what you have found? If you have other thoughts or suggestion on improving the keywording task, that would be great.

                                          Thanks!

                                          Reid
                                          • 18. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
                                            Community Member
                                            Here is a free utility.

                                            www.keyworditall.com
                                            • 19. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
                                              romeobravo Community Member

                                              I have been doing all my keywording in Lightroom right from the start, and aside from the tedium, I find it satisfactory.  The keywords show up in Bridge, near as I can tell, although I don't use Bridge a lot.  Unlike some of the folks on the forum, I am pleased with LR3, and am getting into it pretty well with a minimum of hangups.   The thing that annoys me about LR3 is that I cannot use the spray can to remove keywords from pictures.  It will add them ok, and the frames with the keyword of interest are highlighted on the grid view.  With LR2, when you typed one or more keyword next to the spray can, all of them that had that keyword woulb be highlighted, and if you passed spray can over any of those frames it would show a knife icon, and you could remove the keyword with a mouse click.  Also,  cannot go directly to keyworded frames by highlighting a keyword in the keyword list after about 3000 keywords.  In fact, the list won't show them at all after you use too many.   I can, however, edit with the "filter keyword" space at the top of the list.   My master catalog has about 50,000 images, and I suppose I have 4 or 5000 keywords, although I have not counted.  I a past master at doing things the hard way, and have probably come up with a crazy system, but I am getting used to it and it is working for me.

                                              • 20. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
                                                tezlez2 Community Member

                                                New one to me! What's the spray can please?   Terry

                                                • 21. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
                                                  Ian Lyons CommunityMVP

                                                  romeobravo wrote:

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  The thing that annoys me about LR3 is that I cannot use the spray can to remove keywords from pictures.  It will add them ok, and the frames with the keyword of interest are highlighted on the grid view.  With LR2, when you typed one or more keyword next to the spray can, all of them that had that keyword woulb be highlighted, and if you passed spray can over any of those frames it would show a knife icon, and you could remove the keyword with a mouse click.

                                                   

                                                  Press down on Alt/OPtion key will switch from spray can to eraser

                                                  • 22. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
                                                    Ian Lyons CommunityMVP

                                                    romeobravo wrote:

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    The thing that annoys me about LR3 is that I cannot use the spray can to remove keywords from pictures.  It will add them ok, and the frames with the keyword of interest are highlighted on the grid view.  With LR2, when you typed one or more keyword next to the spray can, all of them that had that keyword woulb be highlighted, and if you passed spray can over any of those frames it would show a knife icon, and you could remove the keyword with a mouse click.

                                                     

                                                    Press down on Alt/Option key will switch from spray can (paint tool) to an eraser

                                                    • 23. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
                                                      romeobravo Community Member

                                                      in Library module, grid view,  you will see a spray can icon, with a space after it to enter keywords.  use the mouse to move the spray can over each frame you want a keyword assigned to and right click.  that frame will be highlighted so you can see what you have done.  Hold alt to get a knife icon, and delete keywords from pictures with a mouse click--highlight will be taken off of the picture.  I just now got the post about deleting keywords in response to my post on the same subject.

                                                      • 24. Re: Keywording:  fastest approach
                                                        romeobravo Community Member

                                                        Many thanks, Ian.  I should have thought of that.  works fine!