12 Replies Latest reply: Nov 12, 2006 10:54 AM by athegn RSS

    Rotating images of non "multiple of certain sizes.."

    athegn Community Member
      I have some 1300 scanned APS images; from my now defunct Nikon LS2000.

      Unfortunately the scanning has resulted in the images being of the wrong orientation in Elements 3 Organizer. The landscapes are portrait and the portraits are upside down.

      If I rotate in Organizer this will create two, or three files, for each image.

      I am tempted to leave them as they are but I will not be the main user of these images. My wife would like to see them the correct way round!

      I doubt that any loss in image quality will matter too much as 6 x 4 or web will mostly be required. Only a few maybe printed at A4.

      Can anyone please tell how to rotate without creating many addional files or how best to delete the not required additional files?
        • 1. Re: Rotating images of non "multiple of certain sizes.."
          (Bob_Carruth) Community Member
          >If I rotate in Organizer this will create two, or three files, for each image.

          Since I don't use normally use Organizer to rotate my images I just thoroughly tested this in PE3 Organizer on both multiple and single selections. No additional files were created.

          To the best of my knowledge there is no loss of quality since only an orientation indicator is set in the file. All of my software recognizes the rotation correctly.

          Bob
          • 2. Re: Rotating images of non "multiple of certain sizes.."
            athegn Community Member
            Did you get the message?

            "Lossless rotation of JPEG files is only possible when the image dimensions are multiples of certain sizes.

            Photoshop Elemets will create and rotate a copy of the file.

            OK Cancel"

            If the file is not of unspecified dimensions you will not get additional files. If they are, you will get an additional file for each rotation e.g.:-

            Untitled-4.jpg
            Untitled-4_edited-1.jpg
            Untitled-4_edited-2.jpg
            • 3. Re: Rotating images of non "multiple of certain sizes.."
              hatstead-pbiq5w Community Member
              Perhaps batch rotating outside of Elements will provide the solution. You can do it in Irfanview - free download of program at

              www.irfanview.com

              Here is the appropriate help file section in the program:

              Batch Conversion:
              Select the Output Format at bottom left. This works just like Save and Save As. The Options button lets you choose from the various file format specific save options, just like the Save and Save As dialog.

              Use the Set advanced options button to apply many special operations to the images during conversion. These options are much like their versions on the Image Menu. The options are:

              Crop, Resize, Change color depth, Horizontal flip, Vertical flip, Rotate left, Rotate right, Convert to greyscale, Negative, Sharpen, Brightness, Contrast, Gamma correction, Saturation, Color balance, etc.

              Hint: for Batch Resize: If you set both, width and height, to e.g. 640 and activate the preserve aspect ratio option, the result image dimensions are: width = max. 640, height = max. 640, proportional.
              • 4. Re: Rotating images of non "multiple of certain sizes.."
                (Bob_Carruth) Community Member
                >Did you get the message?
                "Lossless rotation of JPEG files is only possible when the image dimensions are multiples of certain sizes.
                Photoshop Elemets will create and rotate a copy of the file.
                OK Cancel"

                That's a new one for me. I guess all my scans, crops, etc are acceptable. Out of curiosity so I can avoid the problem what are some of the pixel dimensions of the affected images?

                Thanks,

                Bob
                • 5. Re: Rotating images of non "multiple of certain sizes.."
                  Community Member
                  In addition to Ken's remarks, IrfanView also provides lossless operations
                  for Jpeg files:

                  Quoting the Help file:
                  "Note: JPG lossless operations are only available with PlugIn JPG_Transform.
                  Download and install:
                  http://www.irfanview.com/plugins.htm
                  Note: This feature is available only, if you have loaded a JPG file.
                  Click on the Options Menu, then JPG Lossless Operations. A dialog allows you
                  to rotate, flip, optimize or clean a JPG file.
                  Note: Lossless JPG operations like flip or rotate work only if the image
                  height is a multiple of 16. If this is not the case, unused image lines will
                  be removed.
                  Note: Your original JPG file will be changed/overwritten!"
                  End quote

                  Juergen
                  • 6. Re: Rotating images of non "multiple of certain sizes.."
                    athegn Community Member
                    Thank for the Irfanview information. Will investigate.

                    Bob

                    All the offending files are 991 x 1541 pixels.
                    • 7. Re: Rotating images of non "multiple of certain sizes.."
                      Community Member
                      > All the offending files are 991 x 1541 pixels.

                      That may be the stumbling stone. It was said in IrfanView that the height
                      has to be a multiple of 16. There must be something Elements and IrfanView
                      don't like about odd sizes.

                      Juergen
                      • 8. Re: Rotating images of non "multiple of certain sizes.."
                        Community Member
                        I suppose, you might as well go ahead and use IrfanView to batch resize and
                        rotate at the same operation (not lossless). Do one operation for each set
                        of images of the same orientation.

                        Juergen
                        • 9. Re: Rotating images of non "multiple of certain sizes.."
                          Community Member
                          Lossless rotation is only possible [with any software] if the dimensions are within certain criteria. Organizer is smart enought to do the rotation anyway and create a copy instead of corrupting your original. This copy goes into a version set. You can flatten a version set if you want to lose the old version(s).
                          • 10. Re: Rotating images of non "multiple of certain sizes.."
                            (Bob_Carruth) Community Member
                            Interesting that PE3 Editor allows 90/180 degree rotation of that size without any warning.

                            For those few to be printed at A4 it might be worth the extra effort to use Editor to selectively resize one dimension and then crop to something like 1536x936. Organizer will then do a lossless rotation.

                            Thanks for posting this. I wonder how many odd sizes I've created in Editor and then rotated. At least my originals have not been touched.

                            Bob
                            • 11. Re: Rotating images of non "multiple of certain sizes.."
                              Community Member
                              > Interesting that PE3 Editor allows 90/180 degree rotation of that size without any warning.

                              It doesn't know that you're going to save as a JPEG so it doesn't know that there's anything to warn you about.

                              > For those few to be printed at A4 it might be worth the extra effort to use Editor to selectively resize one dimension and then crop to something like 1536x936. Organizer will then do a lossless rotation.

                              That makes no sense to me. If you resize in Editor and save, the damage [=recompression] is done.

                              The rules for rotating are easy:
                              1) If images are out of a camera, do rotating first.
                              2) If you are doing scanning, get them the right way around in the first place or scan to a non-lossy format [like TIFF - good idea anyway if you are very likely to do subsequent editing].
                              • 12. Re: Rotating images of non "multiple of certain sizes.."
                                athegn Community Member
                                I have now used Irfanview to rotate these APS scanned images as required.

                                I have tested the results as follows:-

                                From the backup, non rotated images, DVD I printed a 6 x 4 and a couple of resized crops including an A4 at 240dpi.

                                I then did the same for the Irfanview rotated image.

                                The image selected included slatted shutters on a building giving fine detail.

                                I cannot see any degradation in the rotate image. Film grain is more of an annoyance at large resizes.

                                My wife cannot tell the 6 x 4s apart. So that part of the exercise is a sucess!

                                Comparison with the origional shop produced prints shows no loss in detail