11 Replies Latest reply on Mar 9, 2009 5:36 PM by Mtbakerstu1

    using Encore for mass duplication . . .


      I'm in the process of finishing a DVD project whihc is intended for mass duplication. I've completed the authoring in Encore, and now only have to create a proper master which the duplication house can use. That is where I'm running into trouble, and was hoping someone here might have some advice.

      The client is requiring CSS encryption. I knew I could not burn a standard DVD from encore and include the encryption flags, so I planned on taking the project to a local facility with a DLT. Unfortunately, I found that their DLT was hooked up to an older Mac, non-Intel, so I was unable to load up my Encore project on it. Their Intel Macs did not have SCSI cards to interface with the DLT.

      While calling around to some other local facilities, I spoke with a gentleman who said he's been using Encore to do Blu-Ray for kiosks. He said that ABSOLUTELY, UNEQUIVOCALLY, Encore can not produce ANY kind of master - whether it be DLT, DDP, or anything - that can be used by a duplication house. I had a hard time believing him, but he seemed so sure...

      I've been using Encore since v1.0, but this is the first project I've done which is going to be mass-produced. I've tried browsing and doing some research, but am still unclear. There seem to be a lot of opinions out there, and speaking to this guy made me doubt even more.

      So here's what I need to know:

      First, is there ANYONE on this forum who has successfully used Encore, either through DLT or in conjunction with GEAR, to create a master which was then sent to a house for mass duplication? I don't want to hear from people who THINK THEY KNOW - only people who have actually done this.

      Second, I'd like to know if one, the other, or both methods work (DLT versus GEAR Pro).

      Lastly, I'd like to know if anyone has successfully created a mass production master, using one or both of the above methods, which INCLUDED CSS ENCRYPTION.

      Sorry if I sound exasperated, but I'm in a really tight spot with this and can't seem to find the right people to talk to....

      Many thanks in advance,

        • 1. Re: using Encore for mass duplication . . .
          Ruud Blauw Level 1
          >I spoke with a gentleman who said he's been using Encore to do Blu-Ray for kiosks. He said that ABSOLUTELY, UNEQUIVOCALLY, Encore can not produce ANY kind of master...

          For Blu-Ray mastering he was probably right. AFAIK the hugely expensive Scenarist is one of the very few applications that can be used for mastering for Blu-Ray replication.

          For mastering DVD-Video titles you should be fine with Encore. Ask Neil . :)

          For an alternative to DLT see No DLT Machine?
          • 2. Re: using Encore for mass duplication . . .
            Ruud Blauw Level 1
            BTW: You were talking about duplication (burning copies), but you probably meant replication (pressing discs from a glass master). Only replicated DVDs can contain CSS.
            • 3. Re: using Encore for mass duplication . . .
              douglas_p01862 Level 1
              Yes - I meant replication. And yes, he was talking about Blu-Ray (he kept mentioning Scenarist, even though I told him repeatedly I was doing a single layer, standard def disc).

              I got the demo version of GPME, and followed the how-to on the Gear site to the letter, but am still having a problem. Here's my workflow, in case anyone can spot my mistake:

              - build a DVD folder (all CP options turned OFF) on my MacBook Pro from Encore CS3 (Mac version)
              - move the DVD folder onto the Windows partition of my laptop
              - boot Windows and launch GPME
              - open a new project, specify CSS, set the DDP options per the guidelines on the GEAR site
              - attempt to build the disc to the HDD

              It gets all the way through the process, then ends with: "Write error in file C:\SSDDP\DDP_SteveSongs_000\IMAGE.DAT. Track 1 is not successfully written."

              I've tried changing the options on the DDP settings, and also turning off CSS entirely, and still get the same problem.

              Again, this is a single-layer, standard-def disc, about 4 GB in size. There are about 20 individual movies, and I've used playlists to handle some of the navigation and branching.

              Any thoughts?
              • 4. Re: using Encore for mass duplication . . .
                neil wilkes Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                I have successfully used Encore & GEAR Pro ME to make many titles that were supplied either on DLT tapes or DDPi/CMF-DVD with no troubles whatsoever. It does work.
                You should be able to produce a properly formatted image, and getting this error is telling me there is a serious issue somewhere.
                Before we point any fingers at anything, perhaps we ought to try & find the problem.
                1 - Are you running GPME on a proper XP setup, or Bootcamp?
                If you're using Bootcamp, it is not actually guaranteed to work with the GEAR drivers to the best of my knowledge. I will check though.
                i possible
                source of trouble is creating a folder initially on a Mac volume, and transferring it to a different one in an XP partition - I am not at all familiar with the dreaded Mac variants, but is it not possible that there are missing resource forks that are needed here??

                Let us try an experiment please.
                Make a DVD-R version from Encore.
                Then put the tested disc back into the drive, launch GPME & attempt to convert the disc into a DDP image.
                Can you tell me what happens??
                • 5. Re: using Encore for mass duplication . . .
                  douglas_p01862 Level 1

                  Thanks so much for your reply. This turned out to be one of those embarassing DOH! moments. Your hunch was almost correct. Or at least, if I'd done your test earlier, I would have discovered the problem as a side effect...

                  In order to move files back and forth from my Mac partition to my PC partition, I had to make my PC partition FAT32 (my version of MacOS won't read NTFS).

                  So I could transfer the VIDEO_TS folders fine. But when I tried to generate the DDP, which of course includes a large data file with most of the disc info, I ran into the 4GB filesize limitation of the FAT32 file system. GPME didn't alert me to this, it simply said it was unsuccessful in writing the disc.

                  All I had to do was hook up an external NTFS drive, create my DDP on that, and all is well. I still don't know if the master will be accepted by the replicator, but I'm hopeful. :)

                  At this point, the only possible remaining issue is that the replicator has asked specifically for DDP 2.0., and the instructions on the Gear site (and your own advice) seems to involve setting Gear to generate a DDP 2.1 disc (VIDEO_TS folders with no flagging, changed in Gear to add the CSS).

                  We'll see what they say tomorrow.

                  Thanks so much for all your help and time.


                  • 6. Re: using Encore for mass duplication . . .
                    Mtbakerstu1 Level 1

                    I found this thread in searching under the term "Bootcamp". I wanted to find out if it is possible to use CS4 Encore with Windows XP or Vista on a Mac Pro.

                    It sounds like I have might have my answer. Is anyone able to advise me on any drawbacks in doing this? Doug, were you able to resolve your issues with Gear?

                    I will be using this setup for Blu-ray authoring. I don't know if that could throw any additional wrenches in the works...


                    • 7. Re: using Encore for mass duplication . . .
                      douglas_p01862 Level 1

                      Wow - it's been a long time since I thought about any of this. I'm trying to recall this information from deep storage in my memory . . .

                      Whether Encore CS4 can run on XP or Vista depends entirely on Adobe's specs for the software. Just check the system requirements on Adobe's site.

                      As for adding CSS, here's what worked for me:

                      1) Render out VIDEO_TS folders from Encore
                      2) Make sure you have an NTFS partition to accommodate the large filesize
                      3) Set up Gear to add CSS encryption to the image
                      4) Follow guidelines on Gear's site to generate the DDP
                      5) Transfer the DDP to your duplication house via disc or hard drive

                      The best source of info on this for me was the guy at the duplication house. He knew what his house needed, so he was in the best position to tell me what specs I needed to meet.

                      Here's a link to the Gear page which describes proper settings for adding CSS to a DDP image:


                      Now, bear in mind that some or all of this info may not apply to Blu-Ray. I just haven't worked with it enough to know. Your best bet is to ask the dupe house what encryption they need, and then search Gear's manuals and forums to make sure you can do that.

                      Good luck!

                      • 8. Re: using Encore for mass duplication . . .
                        Mtbakerstu1 Level 1

                        Fantastic, thank you. Great resources itemized here that I'm sure will be extremely helpful when it comes time to do a project with CSS encryption, and mass duplication.

                        Regarding the OS requirements for Encore, my question was more specifically about what success you have had using a Windows workstation that is not a native PC. Have you suffered any headaches/limitations by running Encore on a Mac with Bootcamp?


                        • 9. Re: using Encore for mass duplication . . .
                          neil wilkes Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          If you pop across to MediaFour and score a copy of MacDrive, your problems with FAT32 file limitations will all go away.
                          Encore CS4 is perfectly happy accessing assets from an external volume formatted as Mac HFS+ here.
                          • 10. Re: using Encore for mass duplication . . .
                            neil wilkes Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Please forget any replication of Blu Ray from Encore.
                            It is simply not possible.
                            You can duplicate (written discs) but this loses CSS (not a Blu Ray CP format anyway).
                            Blu Ray has 2 mandatory CP systems:
                            AACS, BD+
                            Encore cannot provide either of these, and even if it could you as the authoring house will still need an annual AACS license as well as an annual fee to Sony for use of the Blu Ray logo. There are also hefty fees to be paid on a per title basis by the rights holders for replication of Blu Ray discs.

                            With Duplication, please be aware that a lot of players will not actually play a written disc.
                            • 11. Re: using Encore for mass duplication . . .
                              Mtbakerstu1 Level 1
                              Thanks, Neil. That's unfortunate, but makes sense.