22 Replies Latest reply: Apr 4, 2009 2:01 PM by RSS

    Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?

    aljCharlie Community Member
      Is the new version of encore support dts audio file format?
        • 1. Re: Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?
          Joe Bowden Adobe Employee
          Yes, Encore 2.0 will allow you to import DTS streams and pass them through to the DVD.

          You cannot monitor the audio on a DTS stream in Encore 2.0, however.
          • 2. Re: Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?
            DVDmike Community Member
            Are there any other (relatively) inexpensive DTS encoders besides SurCode? Has anyone tried encoding with SurCode DTS to see if the files really work in Encore 2? I am thinking of purchasing the Surcode DTS for DVD. It also does CD DTS for use in a music CD authoring program.

            Its a bummer that Encore 2 is not able to play the DTS audio file for previews, but this is not unexpected. But will it pass the digital audio file out on my sound card's digital outputs so that I can decode on a DTS receiver while playing from Encore?
            • 3. Re: Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?
              Joe Bowden Adobe Employee
              SurCode DTS files can be used in Encore 2.0 (well, any DTS file, really).

              There's no DTS decoder included in Encore 2.0, so you won't be able to monitor the audio in Encore until you build a DVD or folder.
              • 4. Re: Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?
                Neil Wilkes CommunityMVP
                SurCode's DTS-Pro, or DTS-DVD, is exceptionally cheap right now, believe me!
                When I first bought it, it was almost $1,000 but now it cam be bought for $499. This is very, very cheap - my last DTS encoder for Nuendo was a stunning £1,000 and I am about to buy the DTS-Professional which has 24/96 support as well as DTS-ES and DTS-EX (both 6.1, one is matrixed Cs the other is discrete Cs)

                And soon there will be DTS-HD - offering lossless (but only for HD)

                I don't think that your playback idea is going to work - the preview engine is the one from Premiere Pro, and to be brutally honest with you, no authoring application supporting DTS allows audio preview, it would necessitate a DTS decoder in the software, and that would significantly increase the costs.
                Perhaps you could do this (but no guarantee) is to set the outputs to an SP-DIF or Coaxial, and feed this into an external decoder.
                But, as long as the encode was good - you don't NEED to monitor the audio - just monitor from the DD stream or the LPCM stream, as a DVD-V with just DTS audio is badly out of specs, and should never be released to a paying customer.
                • 5. Re: Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?
                  DVDmike Community Member
                  thanks Neil, yes, I know that the DVD spec requires a PCM or DD track and I plan on mastering any DVD that includes DTS with the required audio.

                  Does encore require Compact, Padded, or either file format? Does it respect files with .cpt or just .dts? Can Surcode encode either .cpt or .dts and is there any advantage of using either?

                  I'm also curious if the 754 bit rate as adequate for most home viewed DVD's or is 1509 the way to go with everything? (I will not be doing any authoring for theatrical release or of theatrical movies onto DVD.)

                  I am interesting in learning more about DTS-HD (not that I need to author any). Is this a replacement/enhancement to DTS-Audio CD's to compete with DVD-Audio or Super Audio CD? Or is this for better audio for HD video on BluRay or DVD-HD video disc's? What lossless rates does it support, 24/96? or 32/192? As an audiophile, I am just curious about this info.
                  • 6. Re: Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?
                    Neil Wilkes CommunityMVP
                    Mike.

                    Some very good questions, and I will do my best to answer them.
                    .cpt files are not really recommended for DVD use as most authoring applications don't support them. For best compatibility, use the .dts form - even if you do use the .cpt, you may well find you need to rename to .dts - Encore supports the .dts form.
                    It can be confusing - even DTS seem to be in two minds about this, as in a document available from their website - http://www.dtsonline.com/pro-audio/ (see the DVD Authoring guide), it says in one sentence that .cpt is the "usual for DVD authoring", yet in the next paragraph, it says that a lot of systems don't recognise that extension!
                    Further on, when detailing how to author DTS Audio for DVD-Video, it again says, and I quote

                    >3.1.2. Data File Format Most DVD authoring systems that support DTS audio accept files in both Compact and Padded format, but some do not recognize the .cpt extension. Depending on the system, *.cpt files may be recognized by changing the file filter that determines the file types shown in the Open File dialog to All Files. Some systems on the market do not recognize the .cpt extension at all, and require that the names of the files be changed in order to import them into the authoring system.

                    I have found that Scenarist takes both (according to someone who uses it) and from my experience, DVD Lab Pro and Encore DVD 2.0 both use the .dts padded options with no troubles at all. It's worth grabbing that PDF from DTS though.

                    Padded is usually the default format too - it can manifest itself as the "pad with extra zeroes" option, and most authoring systems can use both padded and compact forms. Again, on a personal level I usually go with the padded form.

                    Bitrate.
                    Use the higher bitrate, as the resulting encode will be superior.
                    But again, you can use the lower rate - but be careful:
                    > DTS recommends using the 1509 kbps bitrate. However, DVD bit-budgeting may dictate the use of the lower rate. Successful (and impressive-sounding) DVD titles have been released with DTS audio coded at 754 kbps, such as Gladiator, Saving Private Ryan, and U-571.

                    DTS-HD will require both BRD/HD-DVD players and HD-DVD/BRD capable amplifiers to be played back. The legacy players and amps will still decode the core stream that will be included for compatibility - although where Dolby's TrueHD will have 3 streams at the same time, one MLP, one Dolby Digital & one Dolby TrueHD for compatibility, the DTS-HD stream will carry all flavours in one - and the player/amp will read the sections it is capable of.
                    DTS-HD, (or DTS Lossless) will not be SD DVD compatible.
                    It will be equal to MLP at 24/96, although DTS-HD is capable of encoding up to 32 channels - MLP will "only" encode up to 12 (if this is switched on, of course).
                    I think it is far superior to the DSD/SACD nightmare - hell, even redbook is superior to DSD IMSHO.

                    So - to summarize.
                    Use .dts extensions.
                    Use Padded with zeroes (although compact should be supported, I do not know if it has been implemented)
                    Use the higher bitrate if you have the room on the disc, but you can also use the lower rate (although I have not tried the lower rate in Encore 2 as yet)
                    Go grab a copy of that document from DTS.
                    • 7. Re: Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?
                      DVDmike Community Member
                      Neil, thanks for the detailed information. It is good to have someone of your DTS experience on this forum! So I will read the DTS document and, use the higher bitrate and padded options.

                      I had not even heard about the DTS-HD or Dolby TruHD options yet and this is interesting to know. It looks like my Denon 5803 is going to be way outdated soon, along with my Denon DVD player.
                      • 8. Re: Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?
                        aljCharlie Community Member
                        Many thanks for all your responses.
                        • 9. Re: Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?
                          Joe Bowden Adobe Employee
                          Addendum: Encore 2.0 will import the .cpt flavor of DTS and pass it through to the DVD.
                          • 10. Re: Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?
                            So let me get this right what you are saying is that I can play my AC3 file in the new Encore and my computer`s digital out from the soundcard will see it so I can connect to encoding an amp and hear surround. I run a music production Studio encoding ac3 all the time on encore 1.5 ,but cannot hear the AC3 (6 channel) file untill I have burned a DVD then played it.
                            • 11. Re: Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?
                              Joe Bowden Adobe Employee
                              Encore has a Dolby Digital 2.0 decoder, so you can play back stereo AC3 files and hear them in Encore. You should also be able to montior multichannel AC3 files, but only in stereo mixdown (as long as they have this parameter set by the AC3 encoder).
                              • 12. Re: Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?
                                Community Member
                                JBowen this is a copy of message I put on forum some time ago what you say is I still cant listen to surround sound 6 channels until I have burned DVD

                                Posted earlier last year regarding 1.5....
                                spoke to tech support re this they say encore only has facilities to playback all audio files (AC3)in sterio there answer is it not sound software its a dvd menu editing suite !!!!!.
                                Yes its a problem it means after encoding you cannot confirm the codeing process untill you burn a dvd and play it back on the nessesary dvd player. I have had 3 days of corrupt encoding (my fault) but I did not know of the problem untill I burned the finale dvd and played it
                                unless of course as always anybody else has a solution
                                • 13. Re: Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?
                                  Joe Bowden Adobe Employee
                                  That is correct: Encore does not have a multichannel AC3 decoder, so you can't monitor all the channels of a multichannel AC3 file in Encore. You must build a DVD or DVD folder, then test that in a hardware or software DVD system.

                                  However, if you have a tool that encodes to multichannel AC3, you should be able to monitor files from there, right?
                                  • 14. Re: Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?
                                    Neil Wilkes CommunityMVP
                                    To confirm what joe is saying here - every Pro grade Dolby Digital Encoder has a way to allow monitoring and playback of the encoded bitstream.
                                    I use the Nuendo DDE, and there are 3 ways to test the AC3 stream produced:
                                    1 - Use Real Time export. This allows you to audition exactly what is being printed.
                                    2 - set it to load the encoded file right back into the project pool - this will invoke the DD DEcoder that is included, and will take the incoming AC3 stream and create a 5.1 PCM file from it (or 6 mono ones if you choose to do so)
                                    3 - Create a DD WAV file.
                                    This will still be at encoded rates, but will have a faked header to tell a CD writing application the encoded file is a 16/44.1 stereo one.
                                    Burn this to CD-R, and make sure that the DVD player is outputting the bitstream to a DD Decoder such as an AV amp.

                                    There
                                    i is no multichannel preview in Encore DVD.
                                    With DD, you can at least check the downmix - assuming you set one.
                                    Withg DTS, it is passthrough only.
                                    Remember Encore is not an audio editor, but an authoring application.
                                    • 15. Re: Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?
                                      Community Member
                                      Thanks for all the info I know its not a audio editor as I was told last year but what a nice facility I don't want to edit the audio just listen to it as it has been encoded I can see my pictures as mpegs files (which is encoded for dvd) in encore but it puts my nice surround which I spend hours mixing into good old and I mean OLD Sterio well I will have to look around to see if there is a software/hardware system that authors and plays back my AC3 file in surround.
                                      • 16. Re: Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?
                                        Neil Wilkes CommunityMVP
                                        Arthur, what - exactly - are you trying to do please?
                                        I think there may well be an answer to what you need - but I have to be sure we are thinking along the same lines here.

                                        If it is just a playback system you need, then that is an entirely different kettle of fishies.
                                        • 17. Re: Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?
                                          Community Member
                                          Neil
                                          I need to moniter the ac3 file (audibly ) along with footage if thats possible . once I have encoded it in dolby 5.1 (ie an ac3 file is produced)
                                          I can as everybody tells and have done 100s of times burn said onto a dvd format then listen on a dvd player that has dolby 5.1 facilities.
                                          What I need to do is as with encoding to mpegs if there was a problem you would (and I have a few times) see glitches on the mpeg encoding in say encore . with the dolby 5.1 encoding how do you tell if its succsessful untill you burn onto dvd . encore plays it back in sterio as I said before. can I play back ac3 file on any other software/hardware (that supports 5.1) prior to burning said dvd .
                                          I await with interest to your thoughts Neil.
                                          ps .At london forum today talked to Adobe technician who wrote it in a upgrade to be looked at for future product.
                                          DVD id a Video/Audio format and speaking as a 30 year audio engineer sterio is very very old hat
                                          Regards
                                          Arthur
                                          • 18. Re: Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?
                                            Neil Wilkes CommunityMVP
                                            The way I create my 5.1 Dolby Digital mixes is using Nuendo - dedicated audio production tools, using the Nuendo Dolby Digital Encoder.
                                            I have 3 ways to test my encodes:
                                            1 - Monitor in Nuendo as I am exporting. Using 3.2 control room function, I can take a Post master fader feed right to my main monitors.
                                            At the same time, I have the video file in the project, and can check everything as it happens.
                                            2 - Create a decoded version in the pool automatically after encoding.
                                            3 - play the encoded AC3 file through a media player, complete with the video file.

                                            The same things also apply to the DTS encodes.
                                            At the same time, I also create a stereo version, or if no dedicated stereo version is required by the client, I check back in Encore using the downmix settings I created in Nuendo's encoder - I don't need full 5.1 preview in Encore - if the stereo version is in sync, then the 5.1 will be as well.

                                            Additionally, correct level practise is essential with a 5.1 Dolby Digital file because of the necessity to use a downmix setting (unless you are using a dedicated stereo only version - although even then, you should set the downmix correctly as the odds are good that one user is certainly going to either play the wrong stream, or has his equipment all set up wrong. If there is a way to break something, the average punter will find it. Some people could crash a sundial!)
                                            You should be measuring the average levels to Leq(m) standards, which will take a very accurate average loudness (using special weighting to closely approximate the way our ears work) and this is how you need to get the correct values for Dialnorm parameter. Dialnorm will also influence the DRC settings you use as well - get this wrong, and it all goes seriously fruit shaped)
                                            • 19. Re: Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?
                                              Community Member
                                              Sorry, but DTS is Not Supported by this strange version of software.
                                              Insteated of to verify any audio tracks for a full compliant of ours DVD was better than Adobe give in this new release the requested features:
                                              No analisys of ac3 dolby digital tracks
                                              Same for DTS tracks.

                                              Adobe insteated of release a new version please fix this new features:

                                              Checking -in by audio assets by an option of the user
                                              Give the chance of EAR the DTS tracks.

                                              Is impossible to create a DLT project if we don't ear any audio tracks for synchronize!

                                              By the way version 1.5 is better

                                              Please have a solution for disable analisy audio and ear all tracks?

                                              Hi.
                                              • 20. Re: Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?
                                                Joe Bowden Adobe Employee
                                                DTS is supported in Encore 2 for pass-through only. Any further support is a feature request.
                                                • 21. Re: Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?
                                                  Neil Wilkes CommunityMVP
                                                  Maskio.

                                                  What do you mean by "analisys" of the files, please?
                                                  What you get is a way to import both AC3 & DTS audio.
                                                  As Joe says: DTS is supported in passthrough mode - this is clearly mentioned in the manual, and it is the job of the Post Production team to sort out sync issues - not Authoring.
                                                  • 22. Re: Is Encover v2 support DTS file format?