Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?

[Guest]

We are looking at implementing Ultraseek as an add-on search engine for our webhelp library.  I know that there are better search engines!...but we're stuck with it...so to make it work best we need to add 'keywords' to our topics.  Equivalent of Index terms, but stored in the meta tag code for each topic.

Ultraseek can search "keywords" and the code they give for it is:

<meta name="keywords" content="[words]>

So I added <meta name="keywords" content=teri> at the end of the meta tag block for a topic.  RH moved it to near the top and changed it to:

<meta name=keywords content=teri>

ok, stripped out the quotes, not sure what that does...but when I complied this line was not in the output .htm file, it had been remomved.

Is there a way to get a meta tag to survive the compiling process?  This is a very important issue for us.  THANK YOU to whomever can help us!

[MergeThis]

You might have to do what we did: run your search engine against your source files instead of the output, then copy over the applicable search files.

We were testing Zoom Search and wanted to use Zoom's proprietary STOP and RESTART tags to "hide" some navigation from search and to eliminate the inclusion of each H1 in the "context description" on the results page. However, RH (X5) dropped those tags from the output.

Indexing with Zoom in this manner (in our merged project) created other issues:

• I had to use FAR to clean up things like changing the folder name from projects to mergedProjects.
• If  we deleted a file in the source without also removing it from the output, we'd have broken links from the results page.

All in all, it's been working pretty well. We've also converted the help for our newest product version to RH 8, which doesn't drop the Zoom tags (I had submitted a wish list request prior to the RH 8 release).

You might want to see if the Ultraseek folks can give you a workaround, as well as submitting your own wish list request to RH.

Good luck,

Leon

[Guest]

Leon, thank you!

Do you know if RH8 would keep the metatag for keywords? Maybe we just need to upgrade...?

Searching against the source files wouldn't work as they are two very separate locations and the link back to the results would take them out of webhelp.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I'm hoping Adobe will chime in and key us a workaround too. Ultraseek doesn't seem to have one.

[tuls_garg]

Hi Teri,

RH 8 does keep all your keyword meta tags in the output files as well. So if you add something like <meta name="keywords" content="teri" /> in source htm file, it will be there in the output htm file as well.

On a side note, you might be interested in trying out the new enhanced search for webhelp in RH 8. It has support for search keyword where you can add keywords to topics and they are included in the search results. You can also control the topic ranking in the search results using these keywords.

Tulika.

RoboHelp Dev Team.

Adobe.

[Guest]

Good morning and thank you!

Is it possible to try out a demonstration copy of RH8 to see the effects of this and show it to other people?

We have over 30 licenses for RH currently - what is the upgrade price for a group of this size?

Please advise, this could certainly be a better way to go than the path we are considering!

[tuls_garg]

Hi Teri,

You can try out RoboHelp 8 trial. You can visit RoboHelp 8 page at http://www.adobe.com/products/robohelp. This page has the information about the upgarde price and also a link to download the trial.

Tulika.

[Guest]

Thank you again!

I've downloaded a copy of the software. A very important question please:

1. Can I run this on the same PC as V7 without problems? I realize I have to use two completely different sets of projects and I can't go 'backwards' from 8 to 7

Are there any 'shared' files that I'm going to alter by installing the trial version and NOT upgrading to V8?

[Guest]

I have downloaded and installed the trial version of RH8. My question now is where can I put these new 'keywords' that it supports for search? I don't see any new tabs on the Topic Properties box. Please advise. Thanks!

[RoboWizard]

Hi Teri

This should be in the Topic Properties.

Cheers... Rick

Begin learning RoboHelp HTML 7 within the day - $24.95! Click here for Adobe Authorized Captivate and RoboHelp HTML Training Click here for the SorcerStone Blog Click here for RoboHelp and Captivate eBooks

[Guest]

Without a doubt...you are amazing, wonderful, special, gifted, talented, and most of all HELPFUL!!!!

Thank you

[Peter Grainge]

Change your glasses.

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See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

[Guest]

Thanks Peter...Rick volunteered that too...I'm in business! Thank you!

[Guest]

Can you please explain the logic behind the 'ranking' in search results in RH8? Is there a weighting system that we can affect? Thanks!

[vivek_k-GfmzA1]

You can define a keyword multiple times for a topic to increase its weight in the search ranking.

vivek.

[Guest]

Thanks! That sounds like something to play with.

[Guest]

I'm trying to get a specific file - the "CATS menu" to be the first among 35 returned results. I've added cats as a keyword 5 times, plus it is in the title of the topic. However, it remains number 14 on the list of returned results.

The keywords should give it far more matches than any other file. Any clue why it remains #14?

[RoboWizard]

Hi Teri

I sent a few offline messages to you and didn't hear anything. Thought that was unusual. Did you see them? (Perhaps check your Spam folder?)

Cheers... Rick

[Guest]

It appears that if the 'keyword' is a match for a word already in the Heading1 and body then they keyword has no affect on the ranking.  For this CATS menu I added "cats" as many times in keyword as the field would allow.  Its in the Heading1 of the file.  However, it continues to be ranked #14 which is where it falls alphabetically for all files with CATS in the title.  The #1 results has the word CATS in it 3 times.  But its title starts with "A".

Since the keyword is the same its not appearing to make any difference.  I've tried it with commas separating the words and just spaces.

Is there another way to affect the ranking of Search Results so that you can get a menu for a common subject to appear first?

[Peter Grainge]

Maybe the problem is you are not using the correct separator between each instance of the keyword. The online help does not seem to state what the separator should be so I cannot help you on that.

Try comma, colon and semi colon. Try surrounding each keyword with quotes.

If you figure it out, please let us know. Does anyone know please?

---

See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

[Peter Grainge]

I understand the separator depends on the language but for English space or comma are OK.

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See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

[Guest]

Good morning Peter!

I didn't try the 'quotes' but I did try spaces and commas.

My problem is this: apparently any topic with your search word in the Heading1 is automatically ranked a "1" regardless of how many more times the search word might be in the topic or Keywords. And if you have multiple "ranked 1" topics, RH simply alphabetizes them for the search results.

Since I have 37 topics with CATS in the Heading1 it alphabetizes that list...and the CATS Menu is alphabetized with the 'm' group since CATS is all the same. That makes it 14 on the list. I want it first!

It doesn't matter how many times I list CATS in Keywords...though I didn't put them in Quotes, I'll try that tonight when I get back from my meet.

The only way I could change the order of the results was to RENAME my menu to "CATS CATS Menu" and then it moved to the 'c' spot and that made it #3.

I was hoping that the ranking was based on several items and not just one thing, and that I could then influence the results. That does not appear to be the case. The #1 returned topic is CATS Alpha Index ("a" group) and has the word 3 times. The #2 ranked topic is a "b" group and has it 2 times. The next one is a "d" group and has it 15 times...clearly the most...doesn't matter.

Any help in affecting the order when you have multiple topics with the search word in the Heading1 is greatly appreciated! Anyone know??

[Peter Grainge]

Hate to say this but if you want something in a specific order, I think we both know the word Rick will be screaming out is Index.

I'm also puzzled as you were talking about using Ultraseek but are now querying RoboHelp's search. Is it that Ultraseek is for your current RH7 licences and you are looking at RH's improved search in RH8?

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See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

[RoboWizard]

Chanting and waving a large sign on a stick here in Missouri...

Inn-Dexx! Inn-Dexx! Inn-Dexx!

Following this thread, I've been experimenting with the Search Ranking. Interesting conclusions. At least from what I'm seeing.

I created a project with 9 topics. Inserted identical content in all topics to test with. Added an unusual word in the text of each topic. Then searched. Topic ranking was alphabetical. I then repeated the word a few times in one of the topics. Genned and tested again. Good! Topic was ranked first. Then again, I sort of expected that to happen. No surprises there.

Took a different topic and inserted the word in a heading. Generate and test. Poof! The new topic floated to the top of rankings. I found this odd, as it trumped the topic with the terms in multiple places. So it would seem a search term occurring in a heading trumps multiple occurrences of basic topic text. (mine was a heading 3, so it doesn't seem to matter which heading level it is)

Then I changed a topic title to include the term. Poof! That one suddenly trumped them all.

I also tested by inserting the term in the Keyword field. By the way, it doesn't seem to matter if you separate keywords using spaces or commas. Didn't try semicolons. The field seems about as flexible as a gooseneck light!

The weird part about all this was that when testing, at one point RoboHelp WebHelp suddenly decided that it couldn't find the term in ANY topics. Then it began finding it in perhaps two of the nine. So I found it to be a very mixed bag during the experiments.

Cheers... Rick

Begin learning RoboHelp HTML 7 within the day - $24.95! Click here for Adobe Authorized Captivate and RoboHelp HTML Training Click here for the SorcerStone Blog Click here for RoboHelp and Captivate eBooks

[Guest]

Peter, thank you for your response...yes Rick is 'screaming Index' and I understand. I love the Index! But many people want to use Search and have it solve all problems...sigh. Since RH7 doesn't allow Keywords and brought back just a list of topics with no ranking we started looking at Ultraseek. We did not realize that RH8 offered enhanced searching abilities.

They appear to be somewhat equal in pros & cons though RH's "keywords" is much simpler to use than inserting a keyword meta tag for Ultraseek.

If I could just affect RH's alphabetical sorting of all topics with the 'found' term in the title I would have this done! I'm not having any luck with that, but will try hidden characters as Helen suggested and see what happens.

Thanks!

[Guest]

Teri,

This is just a hunch:

Try to "hide" an alphabetical character in the type before the Header 1 (i.e. turn the letter the same color as the background). Therefore, if you wanted something like "Cats Menu" to be the first topic in the TOC, make your Header 1 say "aCats Menu" only change the "a" to your background color (or white) and it shouldn't actually show up on the page.

Your second topic will then be "bCats Alpha Index" but hide the "b."

I'm hoping this will work. Any comments?

Helen Schmidling

Education Editor

Banfield, The Pet Hospital