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    Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?

    LRK 2 MeganK

      Anyone have any idea on what will happen next with Canon regarding the next SLR and approximately how long?

        • 1. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
          Laurentiu G Todie Community Member

          IMO all manufacturers are desperate for the next wool to pull over consumers' eyes.

          Traditionally it was resolution, and Sony had the bright idea to go the (what I call) NASA's way: stitching.

          [through stitching, NASA is capable of capturing tremendously detailed pictures of the Universe]

          (for mortals, that would have to be developed by camera makers in cooperation with tripod magicians)

          but there's speed (focusing and fps), HDR and video to think of.

           

          Canon's 1D needs an update (Mark IV), and it seems that it will come in the form of higher fps.

          “If the camera is set to sRAW 1 it will be able to shoot 12fps”

          http://www.canonrumors.com/

           

          a small step in the right direction

          (but Red is working on more than 200 MP captures at 24fps already : )

          http://www.red.com/

           

          anyway the lines between still and video are getting blurred

           

          I personally like Pentax's HDR effort to lock the mirror for multiple captures of the same scene

          http://www.pentax.jp/english/news/2009/200906.html

          • 2. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
            LRK 2 MeganK

            Laurentiu G Todie wrote:

             

            IMO all manufacturers are desperate for the next wool to pull over consumers' eyes.

            Traditionally it was resolution, and Sony had the bright idea to go the (what I call) NASA's way: stitching.

            [through stitching, NASA is capable of capturing tremendously detailed pictures of the Universe]

            (for mortals, that would have to be developed by camera makers in cooperation with tripod magicians)

            but there's speed (focusing and fps), HDR and video to think of.

             

            Canon's 1D needs an update (Mark IV), and it seems that it will come in the form of higher fps.

             

            “If the camera is set to sRAW 1 it will be able to shoot 12fps”

             

            http://www.canonrumors.com/

             

            a small step in the right direction

            (but Red is working on more than 200 MP captures at 24fps already : )

            http://www.red.com/

             

            anyway the lines between still and video are getting blurred

             

            I personally like Pentax's HDR effort to lock the mirror for multiple captures of the same scene

            http://www.pentax.jp/english/news/2009/200906.html

             

            Thank you Laurentiu. This helps. I'm debating on the 5DMKII.

             

            I also will be investing in a projector in the near future as there may be a need for me to start doing presentations. Debating between Epson and Canon. I know Epson is more popular, but I've found Canon products to last longer. Any words of wisdom on this?

            • 3. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
              Laurentiu G Todie Community Member

              I'm debating on the 5DMKII.

              is it the video features that interest you?

              (I keep on missing what you need to know, because you're not really asking : )

               

              check out this site:

              http://www.cinema5d.com/index.php

               

              but be aware that most 5D II video users have manual controls on their wish list

              (and petitions)

               

              [hope you win the "debate" : ]

              • 4. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                LRK 2 MeganK

                Laurentiu G Todie wrote:

                 

                 

                I'm debating on the 5DMKII.

                 

                is it the video features that interest you?

                (I keep on missing what you need to know, because you're not really asking : )

                 

                check out this site:

                http://www.cinema5d.com/index.php

                 

                but be aware that most 5D II video users have manual controls on their wish list

                (and petitions)

                 

                [hope you win the "debate" : ]

                Sorry for the confusion. Not interested in video. Only interested in quality still shots. However the link you provided has some impressive video samples.

                • 5. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                  Ramón G Castañeda Community Member

                  Laurentiu G Todie wrote:

                   

                  I personally like Pentax's HDR effort to lock the mirror for multiple captures of the same scene

                  http://www.pentax.jp/english/news/2009/200906.html

                   

                  That Pentax K7 looks better every day.  It's especially attractive to those of us that have very large collections of Pentax glass.

                   

                  I might just get rid of some of my Leica and Contax rangefinders and lenses in order to buy one.

                  • 6. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                    Laurentiu G Todie Community Member

                    instead of selling a Leica, buy a toaster!

                    (didn't you hear? you get a bank with that)

                    • 7. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                      Dirk Williams Community Member

                      If you into shooting video and still want to have a still camera, then the Canon 5D Mk II is the way to go right now. Two months ago I got a gig shooting behind-the-scenes video footage and stills on a movie set for a full length feature film. A western set in 1902. The only Camera they used was the Canon 5D Mk II. They had three of them.  The sound was recorded off camera, meaning a sound guy with a boom mic. If you want good sound out of the 5D, you'll need to add a sound module, not a big deal. During the shoot I got to view the dailies. I was pretty much blown away! The footage looked great. The real test is what it will look like on the big screen. The rumor is that the movie, Iron Man II is going to be shot with the Canon 5D Mk II's. I would post a picture but I don't want Adobe owning it. Plus it was a SAG movie so I really can't.

                       

                      Someone mentioned the RED!  I've been doing a lot of research on the new RED cameras that will be coming out. I can say it will change film making for the good. But it comes with  a big BUT! Sure you can get into one of those and start filming at the price of about $4K. But you never be happy there. Start adding accessories and that's where they get you.  A 16GB card to record 3K footage; $500.00. Add a hard dive and you are looking at $5K. The Red Scarlet 2/3" looks like a nice camera and they say you can use you Canon or Nikon lenses, but you really need 16m digital film lenses. Price those... Do you think you have enough computer to edit 2 or 3K footage? Better look into that...

                       

                      For you Nikon people, the rumor is, D400 & D750 shooting 1080P footage like the Canon 5D does.  If the Nikon's turn out to be as good as the Canon 5D Mk II, I would say we have arrived.

                       

                      http://nikonrumors.com/2009/04/17/the-next-set-of-rumors-nikon-d400-nikond750.aspx

                      • 8. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                        LRK 2 MeganK

                        Hi Dirk,

                         

                        Thank you for the update. Our lives have been a little up-side-down lately between family related and work issues, but once things slow down a bit and there is room to breathe I will probably begin entertaining the idea of a new SLR again... and maybe something new will come out up between now and then.

                        • 9. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                          Dirk Williams Community Member

                          Hi Linda... Things are crazy here too. I need a vacation.

                          • 10. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                            greenjumpyone Community Member

                            oh my goodness ... there are really people here! 

                             

                            Good to "see" both you! 

                             

                            At the rate I am going for getting the new camera, I might have to wait for the D400! 

                            • 11. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                              Dirk Williams Community Member

                              ...or there's real people here

                               

                              I was going to dump my Nikon's for Canon. But now I'll wait and see if the D400 can deliver when/if it comes out.

                              • 12. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                LRK 2 MeganK

                                Hey to you too! :-)

                                • 13. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                  greenjumpyone Community Member

                                  oh yeah, gotta love how the spam gets cleaned out and so did my reply. 

                                   

                                  In any case, I miss the regulars here ...

                                  • 14. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                    Dirk Williams Community Member

                                    Man, it is really dead here   So where did everybody end up going?

                                    • 15. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                      LRK 2 MeganK

                                      Dirk Williams wrote:

                                       

                                      Man, it is really dead here   So where did everybody end up going?

                                       

                                      My involvement in user forums has dwindled down to that which is necessity for the most part. Otherwise I use my time to make money... a necessary commodity. ;-)

                                      • 17. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                        LRK 2 MeganK

                                        Thank you for posting. Do you think this might be a forerunner for another upcoming upgrade?

                                        • 18. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                          LarryGRC Community Member

                                          I believe that this IS an upgrade.  The market is very competitive right now and Nikon and Canon have both been coming out with more and better.  The 7D looks very interesting!

                                          • 19. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                            LRK 2 MeganK

                                            It's an upgrade for the smaller sensor models, and looks promising. I'm still waiting for the next full sized sensor upgrade, which will probably be the 1D4. ???

                                            • 20. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                              GeofferyH Community Member

                                              Yeah, probably the 1D IV. I don't give rumors much attention, but this one has been going around a lot:

                                               

                                              http://www.canonrumors.com/

                                               

                                              Interesting article on RED & Canon.

                                               

                                              For a FF the earliest projection would be around Feb/Mar, though more likely summer. No one really can say for sure.

                                               

                                              A little OT, but wow. Leica M9 -- http://www.dpreview.com/previews/leicam9/

                                              • 21. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                                LRK 2 MeganK

                                                Thanks for the rumor update Geoffery. I'm getting ready to take a little trip along the New England Coast. Have debated on the 5DMKII or possibly renting one.

                                                • 23. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                                  Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member

                                                  I'm going to have a hands on run with a 7D this weekend. Along with a comarison to the Nikon D90. I know, I know, 18MP vs 12, but who only counts pixels?

                                                   

                                                  Here's an interesting stat. The person possessing the 7D also has a 20D. The 20D holds arounf 1000 images in RAW on an 8G card, the 7D,  263, the same as the Nikon on a 4G card!

                                                  • 24. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                                    LRK 2 MeganK

                                                    Let us know how it goes Larry.

                                                    • 25. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                                      Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member

                                                      The 7D handles exceptionally well. It eclipses the D90 in that regard, Viewfinder a bit brighter, the LCD screen is bigger and seems brighter as well. But then, the camera is bigger.

                                                       

                                                      Technically, there are problems. Because there is no update yet for RAW, we had to convert to dng to open the files in RAW, and found two problems right off.

                                                      1) Magenta cast to areas subjected to Recovery of highlights, CS3 and CS4. None found in the Canon software

                                                      2) Dfine found noise, even at ISO 200!  Side by side comparisons to the D90 confirms this. The exact same image in the D90 showed no noise in the image, nor did the image change at all in Dfine at ISO 200. Strangely, in the Canon software, no noise appears but the detail can't compare to what is seen in in PS dng, after passing through the Canon filter...er, software.

                                                       

                                                      I seem to recall that at some early point in the evolvement of RAW, there were some Canon folks that believed a tiny amount of softening was applied by the NR in Raw sharpening, even when the slider was set at -0-. Chis Cox countered with the concept that what the viewers were calling detail was actually noise with respect to Nyquist. That may also exist here, but it is too early to tell.

                                                       

                                                      As to 18MP vs 12 MP, I saw no advantage at 100%.or at full screen. We applied the exact same corrections to each file, and compared sharpness. At first, it seemed that the Canon was clearly superior, especially before applying sharpening in Smart sharpen, and afterwards where a sharpening of 100 at Radius of 0.7 was applied. But when I increased the Amount used in the Nikon file to 150, they matched almost perfectly. In both cases, going any farther started showing artifacts, so it would appear that the Canon image w/o sharpening was sharper than the Nikon.

                                                       

                                                      Personally, I think 18MP is marketing hype. Going from 10MP in the D80 to 12 in the D90 showed obvious improvement, but 18 in the Canon vs 12 in the Nikon, less so.

                                                       

                                                      Many reasons can exist for such findings too numerous to outline here, but for the moment, this is what we found.

                                                       

                                                      Message was edited by: Hudechrome

                                                      • 26. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                                        Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member

                                                        I opened a thread over at the PS forum about this:

                                                         

                                                        http://forums.adobe.com/thread/501941?tstart=0

                                                         

                                                        I included a couple of samples of a DNG version and a Canon software version concerning the noise problem.

                                                        • 27. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                                          LRK 2 MeganK

                                                          Thank you for the link and info posted Larry.

                                                           

                                                          I almost rented the 5DMKII for my Maine and NH trip, but the company didn't have any available. So I took the 5D for me and the 20D for one of my daughters to use. I think both served us very well and were more than adequate.

                                                          • 28. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                                            Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member

                                                            You are welcome, Linda.

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            Well, the 7D is going back. It also has a focus problem.

                                                             

                                                            In order to use the camea at all, the files first have to go through DPP, as this sodftware has the stuff to deal with the noise.

                                                             

                                                            Pretty pathetic, IMO.

                                                             

                                                            7D. Not yet ready for prime time, apparently.

                                                             

                                                            He has a 20D also, but it is having problems with the software/hardware interface.

                                                            • 29. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                                              LRK 2 MeganK

                                                              I see that the 1DMKIV is out but still does not have the full-sized sensor. The 5DMKII looks better and better. But after my Main/New Hampshire trip it will be a while before I have the extra cash for something new. Probably for the best. :-)

                                                              • 30. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                                                Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member

                                                                Turnss out he kept the 7D and sent it back for repair. He shoots kids sports and loves the fast focus. Apparently, the store is offering another trial period after Canon returns the body from repair.  Rumour has it that a firmware update is in the works.

                                                                 

                                                                Something has to happen.

                                                                • 31. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                                                  P_Shock Community Member

                                                                  The 1DMK IV is geared to sports and fast action photography. For photographers who shoot that stuff (and I do my share), FF isn't much of a concern as is a fast frame rate. Did you notice that it shoots 10 frames a second!? Somehow I doubt you need that capability, even if it was full-frame.

                                                                   

                                                                  Results from the field will give the real answer, but if Canon's claim is to be believed, they've managed to increase resolution while vastly improving high ISO performance on the same sized sensor. That's quite a feat if it turns out to be true.

                                                                   

                                                                  The full-frame 1Ds MK IV can't be far behind - but it won't be cheap. Hopefully, they'll leave the resolution as is (21 MP), and improve ISO performance.

                                                                   

                                                                  -phil

                                                                  • 32. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                                                    LRK 2 MeganK

                                                                    P_Shock wrote:

                                                                     

                                                                    The 1DMK IV is geared to sports and fast action photography. For photographers who shoot that stuff (and I do my share), FF isn't much of a concern as is a fast frame rate. Did you notice that it shoots 10 frames a second!? Somehow I doubt you need that capability, even if it was full-frame.

                                                                     

                                                                    Results from the field will give the real answer, but if Canon's claim is to be believed, they've managed to increase resolution while vastly improving high ISO performance on the same sized sensor. That's quite a feat if it turns out to be true.

                                                                     

                                                                    The full-frame 1Ds MK IV can't be far behind - but it won't be cheap. Hopefully, they'll leave the resolution as is (21 MP), and improve ISO performance.

                                                                     

                                                                    -phil

                                                                     

                                                                    Hi Phil,

                                                                     

                                                                    You mentioned the resolution is 21 MP in your last paragraph. I think it's currently 16.1 MP but could be wrong. You're right that I probably won't be needing the speed.

                                                                     

                                                                    My 5D is amazing. I've put it through a lot in the past year, and shot in all kinds of conditions, particularly on my recent trip including quite a bit of rain, high winds, fog, and even some sleet and snow (Mt. Washington). Despite the weather I kept shooting... and honestly couldn't be happier with it's performance.

                                                                     

                                                                    I almost rented a 5D MKII to take on my trip but there were none available (all rented out). So I took the 5D and let one of my daughters use the older 20D. Bought my other daughter a Nikon CoolPix since she only wanted to have fun with some snapshots. Both the 5D and the 20D were more than adequate.

                                                                    • 33. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                                                      Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member

                                                                      They, and any other sensor maker are constantly fighting physics. If the results differences between the dng file run in RAW and the CR2 run in their software is any indication, the physics is winning (no surprise). At  ISO200, the results are atrocious from the dng file in RAW. I know, I know, it's beta. But the noise suppression has to be numero uno.In my book, anyway.

                                                                       

                                                                      From what I could tell in my brief examination, noise suppression is external to the process on the 7D, while it is internal on the D90. That is to say, Nikon does not let the data out of the camera in any form w/o noise suppression applied. I deduced that by noticing that in camera adjustments for high ISO noise in the Nikon applies to the RAW output.

                                                                       

                                                                      But then, mybe my deduces are wild.

                                                                      • 34. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                                                        john cornicello (retired) Adobe Employee

                                                                        Are you referring to the 1.0.9 firmware for the 7D that came out a few days ago? Or an update to that?

                                                                        • 35. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                                                          Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member

                                                                          John Cornicello wrote:

                                                                           

                                                                          Are you referring to the 1.0.9 firmware for the 7D that came out a few days ago? Or an update to that?

                                                                          I heard rumours of a firmware update, both from the owner of the 7D from his converation with the techs and from the supplier here in Portland. I didn't know one just came out.

                                                                           

                                                                          Do you know anything of it and possibly what Adobe is going to do to deal with the noise problem?

                                                                           

                                                                          Message was edited by: Hudechrome

                                                                          • 36. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                                                            P_Shock Community Member
                                                                            You mentioned the resolution is 21 MP in your last paragraph. I think it's currently 16.1 MP but could be wrong.

                                                                             

                                                                            Yes, the just-announced 1D MK IV is 16.1 MP, but I was referring to the current 1Ds MK III, which is 21 MP. I'm hoping they leave it alone when they update the camera which should help high ISO performance. If the 1Ds MK IV stays at 21 MP and only adds the video capability and a 2 stop improvement in ISO performance, I'd be ecstatic.

                                                                             

                                                                            Canon seems to want to push the resolution envelope, but that always makes good ISO performance more challenging. (Notice that the high ISO champs (Nikon D3 and the new D3s), are 'only' 12 MP.)

                                                                             

                                                                            For instance, the 1D III was 10 MP and the new 1D IV takes it to 16 MP. They didn't have to go that high, IMO - 12 MP would have been enough for the target market and ISO performance would have been improved even further than it was (samples I've seen look good though). Same with the 5D replacement - it went from 12 MP to 21 MP in the 5D MK II!  While I love resolution, I would have rather seen this camera jump to only 16 MP - and even better ISO performance than it received.

                                                                             

                                                                            Oddly though, in the consumer line, Canon actually lowered resolution from 14 MP in the G10 - to 10 MP in the replacement G11 (which vastly improved ISO performance).

                                                                             

                                                                            -phil

                                                                            • 37. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                                                              LRK 2 MeganK

                                                                              P_Shock wrote:

                                                                               

                                                                              You mentioned the resolution is 21 MP in your last paragraph. I think it's currently 16.1 MP but could be wrong.

                                                                               

                                                                              Yes, the just-announced 1D MK IV is 16.1 MP, but I was referring to the current 1Ds MK III, which is 21 MP. I'm hoping they leave it alone when they update the camera which should help high ISO performance. If the 1Ds MK IV stays at 21 MP and only adds the video capability and a 2 stop improvement in ISO performance, I'd be ecstatic.

                                                                               

                                                                              Canon seems to want to push the resolution envelope, but that always makes good ISO performance more challenging. (Notice that the high ISO champs (Nikon D3 and the new D3s), are 'only' 12 MP.)

                                                                               

                                                                              For instance, the 1D III was 10 MP and the new 1D IV takes it to 16 MP. They didn't have to go that high, IMO - 12 MP would have been enough for the target market and ISO performance would have been improved even further than it was (samples I've seen look good though). Same with the 5D replacement - it went from 12 MP to 21 MP in the 5D MK II!  While I love resolution, I would have rather seen this camera jump to only 16 MP - and even better ISO performance than it received.

                                                                               

                                                                              Oddly though, in the consumer line, Canon actually lowered resolution from 14 MP in the G10 - to 10 MP in the replacement G11 (which vastly improved ISO performance).

                                                                               

                                                                              -phil

                                                                               

                                                                              Thanks for clarifying the difference between the 1D and 1Ds. I had a misconception about this. I see what you mean about the tradeoff with resolution and ISO performance. I too would rather have the better ISO performance than increased resolution.

                                                                              • 38. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                                                                john cornicello (retired) Adobe Employee

                                                                                I'm not on the engineering side, so have no idea about what will happen there. I just got a 7D, but it already has the 1.0.9 firmware, so I can't compare it.

                                                                                 

                                                                                As I understand it, Lightroom 2.5 and Camera Raw 5.5 only have very preliminary support for this camera, so I don't expect the same results as I get with other cameras.

                                                                                • 39. Re: Canon :: Any Guess on What is Next?
                                                                                  Hudechrome-sd9sPI Community Member

                                                                                  Can you check the noise at ISO 200? I'm curious as to that problem in the upgrade. If you have Canon DPP software, could you please run a comparison of the niose between it and a dng conversion opened in RAW?

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Thanks,

                                                                                   

                                                                                  lawrence

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