15 Replies Latest reply: Sep 3, 2009 1:56 AM by dan_hin RSS

    encore cs3 chapter playlist end action

    dan_hin Community Member

      Hi All,

       

      Believe it or not, I've only just started to use Chapter Playlists in CS3 - but already I'm finding there are some issues.

       

      I'm working on a DVD of about an hours worth of material (7.5 mbps approx) using one main timeline and several sections derived from the main timeline with chapter playlists consisting of 3-4 chapters each.

       

      At the end of each chapter playlist there's an end action to go back to the main menu and highlight the next button.

       

      The issue i'm having is that the end action for any given chapter playlist is delayed by about half a second. Unfortunately this means that instead of finishing at the end of an edit, there's a blip of the next section's introductory graphic before the disc takes the user back to the menu.

       

      We've tried to remedy this by shifting chapter points about to compensate for the delay, but due to the (entirely understandable) I frame limit of 13-15 frames the chapter mark can't be set to the "right" point.

       

      The last resort here is either to split the main timeline into the sections, and link to them separately, then create a playlist with all sections on for the play all button.

       

      Thoughts anyone?

       

      Dan

        • 1. Re: encore cs3 chapter playlist end action
          Joe Bowden Adobe Employee

          The chapter marker indicates the start of the chapter, and the last frame of the chapter is the frame before the next chapter (or end of the timeline). If your graphic is in the next frame after the chapter, you should not be seeing it.

           

          Is this not the case?

          • 2. Re: encore cs3 chapter playlist end action
            dan_hin Community Member

            unfortunately that's not the case.

             

            I'm getting over 10 frames of the next chapter before the player "recovers" and goes back to the menu.

             

            Anyone else got any more suggestions?

             

            Dan

            • 3. Re: encore cs3 chapter playlist end action
              Joe Bowden Adobe Employee

              Never seen that behavior before.

               

              Which player are you using?

              • 4. Re: encore cs3 chapter playlist end action
                dan_hin Community Member

                the preview engine of encore, a dvd/tv combi player (something called a "maxim"), and a £60 dvd recorder from Asda. Haven't tried a "decent" player yet, but so far the indications are that this is not a hardware isssue.

                 

                Dan

                • 5. Re: encore cs3 chapter playlist end action
                  Joe Bowden Adobe Employee

                  Don't rely on Encore's Preview mode - it's a good first-check, but imperfect in several little ways. Always test on a DVD player for a true picture of disc behavior.

                   

                  But since you are seeing this on hardware DVD players, that's not a good sign. I've never seen this, but I don't recall doing a frame-critical application like you appear to be doing. I will check on this some time when I get a chance.

                   

                  You can try making a series of timelines, each containing a single chapter, as you mentioned. Or you can try adding some pad (still or black frame) to the original asset in Premiere at the end of each chapter.

                  • 6. Re: encore cs3 chapter playlist end action
                    Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                    I do not see this.  the only way I can see to create it is to set the chapter marker between vob boundaries.  Did you transcode in Encore?  and when were the chapter markers set?  I see your references to i frames, so I think you have checked this, but I just don't see any other way this could occur.

                    • 7. Re: encore cs3 chapter playlist end action
                      dan_hin Community Member

                      nope, i only transcode graphics and motion menus in encore. we edit on Avids so the workflow is avid->sorensen squeeze->encore. is there any chance that would make a difference?

                       

                      how can I tell where the vob boundries are?

                       

                      I set all the chapter markers in Encore.

                       

                      I note I can only set chapter markers in Encore on what appear to be I frames, although this is not explicitly stated and there is no indication at authoring time that this will cause problems. I just struggle to believe that I can't simply expect end actions to work "instantaneously" i.e when the chapter ends.

                       

                      The project isn't too frame critical - i've got at least like 20 frames worth of space between edits (although to be fair the producer did most of the editing on this one...it's a long story!).

                      • 8. Re: encore cs3 chapter playlist end action
                        Joe Bowden Adobe Employee

                        mardy bum wrote:

                         

                        we edit on Avids so the workflow is avid->sorensen squeeze->encore. is there any chance that would make a difference?

                         

                         

                        Try eliminating Sorensen Squeeze from your workflow and transcode your .mov file from Avid directly in Encore.

                        • 9. Re: encore cs3 chapter playlist end action
                          Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                          how can I tell where the vob boundries are?

                          Click next chapter.  Then click Alt-Next Frame. (This takes you to the next vob.)  Then click Alt-Previous Frame.  This should take you back to the Chapter marker if it was at a vob.

                           

                          If Encore does the encoding, it will make a new vob at your chapter mark.  If the file is already transcoded, Encore will force your chapter marker to a vob break.

                          • 10. Re: encore cs3 chapter playlist end action
                            dan_hin Community Member

                            we're unlikely to do that as a long term workflow solution, i think. We've always used DV streams as the intermediary format so far, as there was a limit of 2 gig on the file sizes of everything else. Is this no longer the case?

                             

                            I'll give it a try, anyhow.

                             

                            Dan

                            • 11. Re: encore cs3 chapter playlist end action
                              dan_hin Community Member

                              well that looks like the answer to this issue then.

                               

                              out of interest,  what intermediary file format do you use if you're going between different machines for encoding and editing?

                               

                              oh, and another question - how does encore compare to squeeze in terms of transcode/encode quality?

                               

                              Dan

                               

                              Message was edited by: mardy bum

                              • 12. Re: encore cs3 chapter playlist end action
                                Bill Hunt CommunityMVP
                                out of interest,  what intermediary file format do you use if you're going between different machines for encoding and editing?

                                 

                                Normally, I am feeding En with DV-AVI Type II elemental streams (Video-only) and AC3 elemental streams (Audio-only). I seldom have material that requires special attention, so I will rely on En's automatic Transcode settings. With the few instances, where I did need to do the bit-budgeting, I just did MPEG-2 (DVD-compliant) elemental streams and the same AC3's, as above. This is from a couple of machines, but nothing shuttled in any case.

                                 

                                Now, for shuttling the files from machine to machine, I like Lagarith as an intermediate CODEC. The files are large, but PrPro (my NLE) works fine with them and they are "lossless." Many report the same success.

                                 

                                how does encore compare to squeeze in terms of transcode/encode quality?

                                 

                                I have never used, nor compared, Sorensen to En. IIRC, both Jeff Bellune and Neil Wilkes (trusted contributors here) have used it. Maybe one, or both, could comment. I would trust the words of either.

                                 

                                Good luck,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: encore cs3 chapter playlist end action
                                  dan_hin Community Member

                                  so this is sorted then!

                                   

                                  excellent work all round guys. For DVD I've given up on squeeze and am using debugmode frameserver for those troublesome GOPS. Shame we have to export dv streams to premiere to encore - adds at least another few hours onto the process for large projects.... but I suppose that's the price we have to pay!

                                   

                                  Thanks

                                  Dan

                                  • 14. Re: encore cs3 chapter playlist end action
                                    Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                                    Dan,

                                     

                                    Great news and glad that it is sorted.

                                     

                                    I feel the same way, regarding the Export/Import, and hope that Adobe finally gets DL down to a "science," with CS5.

                                     

                                    Good luck,

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: encore cs3 chapter playlist end action
                                      dan_hin Community Member

                                      hah, maybe work will stump up the cash for an upgrade by then.... here's hoping!!