20 Replies Latest reply: Jan 20, 2011 3:12 AM by AEjoachim RSS

    OpenDML Video from Capture but not Rendering

    GESYMSB Community Member

      I created a simple video with the colors bars on my Premiere Pro CS3

      Exported as DV AVI.

      I have another file that was "capture" with the same Premiere Pro CS3

       

      Here is the problem, one file is good all around but the other is not.

      The one created from Premiere Pro CS3 ( Just the Color Bars ) do not work with many programs.
      This is the container for that File:
      DV Type 2 AVI
      AVI v1.0
      DV Audio/Video: 117 KB (0.10%)
      AVI Copy of DV Audio: 109 MB (99.51%)
      AVI Overhead: 442 KB (0.39%)

       

      The one that works ok anywhere was created with Premiere Pro Capture Utility and

      this is the container.
      Compatibility Note: DV Type 1 AVI
      OpenDML (AVI v2.0)
      DV Audio/Video: 98.3 MB (99.66%)
      AVI Overhead: 345 KB (0.34%)

       

      How come I got 2 different files from Premiere Pro?
      How can I get Premiere Pro to use OpenDML (AVI v2.0) ?

       

      Thanks

        • 1. Re: OpenDML Video from Capture but not Rendering
          Bill Hunt CommunityMVP
          Here is the problem, one file is good all around but the other is not. The one created from Premiere Pro CS3 ( Just the Color Bars ) do not work with many programs.

           

          Where does the DV-AVI Type II not work, that the DV-AVI Type I does? Which "other programs?"

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: OpenDML Video from Capture but not Rendering
            Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

            OpenDML was designed to overcome the 2GB limit on older systems and with DV-AVI Type I files. I do not know of a good reason to do OpenDML with modern systems. What is the reason that you wish to do this?

             

            Part of the spec. was to accommodate MJPEG CODEC. Is that what you need? If so, the Morgan, or the MainConcept MJPEG CODEC should help you out.

             

            Good luck,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: OpenDML Video from Capture but not Rendering
              Harm Millaard CommunityMVP

              Strange that you captured the second file with Pr, which does not support type1. Using Pr you should get type2 files.

               

              What were your export settings?

              • 4. Re: OpenDML Video from Capture but not Rendering
                Bill Hunt CommunityMVP
                Strange that you captured the second file with Pr, which does not support type1. Using Pr you should get type2 files.

                 

                Yes, something is not ringing true. Now, if one used WMM to do the Capture, it would be in Type I. With PrPro, it will be in Type II. Maybe just confusion as to which was which.

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: OpenDML Video from Capture but not Rendering
                  Harm Millaard CommunityMVP
                  Maybe just confusion as to which was which.

                   

                  and a great way to confuse us as well. Makes it a bit harder to give sensible replies and possible solutions.

                  • 6. Re: OpenDML Video from Capture but not Rendering
                    JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                    My captured clips show as DV Type II (as they should) in AVI v2.0.

                     

                    My short bars export (15 sec.) was a DV Type II in AVI 1.0 format.  My longer (10 minute) bars export showed as DV Type II in AVI OpenDML (2 parts).

                     

                    I suspect the final length of the file is what determines whether it'll be a 1.0 or v2.0 AVI.

                    • 7. Re: OpenDML Video from Capture but not Rendering
                      GESYMSB Community Member

                      >> and a great way to confuse us as well.

                       

                      Well Sr. maybe you dont do as many videos as we do.

                      As you can see, I am NOT alone, read Jim Simon Post.

                      That's EXACTLY what happened to me.

                       

                      I am trying to encode with Procoder 3, this is not the first time I've done this.

                      ( Procoder will give you better quality than Encore's MainConcept )

                       

                      What I dont remember is, if I was using MS AVI or DV-AVI

                       

                      But I am very sure I was doing DV-AVI.

                       

                      Capture will ALWAYS give you DV-TYPE 2 as Jim saids, BUT A LITTLE CLIP OF COLOR BARS
                      from Premiere........ NOPE

                       

                      Hey Jim, you may got the answer there !

                      I will try that, so we dont confuse these people.....

                       

                      But thanks to all for trying to help

                      • 8. Re: OpenDML Video from Capture but not Rendering
                        Harm Millaard CommunityMVP

                        As you can see, I am NOT alone, read Jim Simon Post.

                        That's EXACTLY what happen to me.

                         

                        No, you claimed a completely different result. Jim and I are in agreement.

                         

                        Any Ideas ?

                         

                        Yes, get your facts straight. Then give us ACCURATE information, not something like:

                         

                        What I dont remember if I was using MS AVI or DV-AVI

                         

                        which makes an enormous difference, followed by:

                         

                        But I am very sure I was doing DV-AVI.

                         

                        So you don't remember what what you were using, but were very sure doing DV-AVI. What was it?

                         

                        Capture will ALWAYS give you DV-TYPE 2 as Jim saids

                         

                        but in your post you said DV-TYPE 1.

                         

                        The one that works ok anywhere was created with Premiere Pro Capture Utility and

                        this is the container.
                        Compatibility Note: DV Type 1 AVI

                         

                        Can you understand the confusion you are creating?

                        • 9. Re: OpenDML Video from Capture but not Rendering
                          GESYMSB Community Member

                          Harm, I think this is very clear:

                          >I created a simple video with the colors bars on my Premiere Pro CS3

                          >Exported as DV AVI.

                          >I have another file that was "capture" with the same Premiere Pro CS3

                          2 Files created by Premiere Pro, and they are both different.

                           

                          Now, I just did this test:

                           

                          I did 3 Color Bars Test from Premiere, 12, 16 & 20 Minutes, they all come out

                          with this container, and do not work on Procoder.

                           

                           

                          DV Type 2 AVI
                          AVI v1.0
                          DV Audio/Video: 117 KB (0.09%)
                          AVI Copy of DV Audio: 131 MB (99.52%)
                          AVI Overhead: 529 KB (0.39%)

                           

                           

                          However Mixing just 3 second of Color Bars with the Capture File from Premier, for a total of only

                          2 Minutes and 42 Seconds created a file that DID went OK with Procoder.
                          But..... the container shows the same ! ( According to GSPOT)

                           

                          DV Type 2 AVI
                          AVI v1.0
                          DV Audio/Video: 120 MB (80.16%)
                          AVI Copy of DV Audio: 29.7 MB (19.76%)
                          AVI Overhead: 124 KB (0.08%)

                           

                          Seens that anything created by Premiere internally (without any outside clip) will not work

                          on Procoder. The problem is that GSPOT is not showing any differences between the two.

                           

                          Remember, File Captured with Premiere will ALWAYS BE:


                          OpenDML (AVI v2.0)
                          DV Audio/Video: 98.3 MB (99.66%)
                          AVI Overhead: 345 KB (0.34%)

                          • 10. Re: OpenDML Video from Capture but not Rendering
                            Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                            What version of ProCoder do you have? I find it very odd, indeed, if it cannot handle DV-AVI Type II files. Maybe I'm missing something important, but find that odd, indeed.

                             

                            Good luck,

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: OpenDML Video from Capture but not Rendering
                              GESYMSB Community Member

                              I am using Procoder 3 with the latest update.

                               

                              It is very bad, that I can't find a clue with GSPOT, the only differences between
                              the video capture with Premiere and the bars created with Premiere
                              is the OpenDML (AVI v2.0) indication on GSPOT.

                               

                              The Color Bars files created by Premiere DO NOT show that.

                               

                              Thanks for helping

                              • 12. Re: OpenDML Video from Capture but not Rendering
                                JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                I did 3 Color Bars Test from Premiere, 12, 16 & 20 Minutes, they all come out [as AVI 1.0], and do not work on Procoder.

                                 

                                I got a different result.  Only the shorter 15 second file was 1.0, the longer 10 minute bars export was a v2.0 AVI.

                                 

                                Seens that anything created by Premiere internally (without any outside clip) will not work on Procoder.

                                 

                                I can't test that, however...

                                 

                                GSPOT is not showing any differences between the two.

                                 

                                It did for me.

                                • 13. Re: OpenDML Video from Capture but not Rendering
                                  Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                                  Personally, I find it very odd that ProCoder 3 will not accept DV-AVI Type II's, and only DV-AVI Type I's.That just sounds odd.

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                  • 14. Re: OpenDML Video from Capture but not Rendering
                                    GESYMSB Community Member

                                    Wine, it does.Remember the original "Capture File" was:

                                    Compatibility Note: DV Type 1 AVI
                                    OpenDML (AVI v2.0)

                                     

                                    The short Color Bars file:

                                     

                                    DV Type 2 AVI
                                    AVI v1.0

                                     

                                    Or I am wrong on this, remember I am not a pro, but I was

                                    thinking OpenDML (AVI v2.0) was the better one.

                                     

                                    That is THE ONLY difference that GSPOT give me.
                                    Both use the same codec.

                                     

                                    To drive me even more crazy, is why the combination of both

                                    produced a file: DV Type 2 AVI  AVI v1.0

                                    same as the Colors Bar clip, but WORKS on Procoder !

                                     

                                    Do you folks think ENCORE DVD 2 may have something to do ?

                                     

                                    I am trying to look at any details / actions I had done in the past,
                                    I was not using any Encore at all, just Premiere & Procoder 3.

                                     

                                    I clean up the pc and put Encore DVD 2 too.

                                     

                                    The reason I dint put Encore CS3 is because I have a good book on DVD 2.

                                     

                                    Encore DVD 2 was installed later after I already had anything else.installed.

                                    ( Last Thing to Install )

                                     

                                    JIm: The only differences between the 2 according to GSPOT is: OpenDML (AVI v2.0)

                                    ( On my Pc )

                                     

                                    Thanks for keep thinking !

                                    • 15. Re: OpenDML Video from Capture but not Rendering
                                      JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                      OK, you're starting to confuse things here.

                                       

                                      First you say that Premiere captured a clip in v1.0, then you say it will always capture in v2.0 (post 7), now you're back to saying that it's 1.0.

                                       

                                      In post 9 you say GSpot shows no difference between short and long bars exports, and in post 14 you say it does.

                                       

                                      It's very difficult to help if you can't be clear, precise and consistent.

                                      • 16. Re: OpenDML Video from Capture but not Rendering
                                        Bill Hunt CommunityMVP
                                        The reason I dint put Encore CS3 is because I have a good book on DVD 2.

                                         

                                        If that book is The Focal Easy Guide to Adobe EncoreDVD 2.0, by Jeff Bellune, Focal Press, it's a great book and should be on everyone's shelf, if they use any version of Encore.

                                         

                                        Now, let's talk Encore version numbers a moment. Encore CS3, and CS4, are not THAT different from Encore 2.0. The one difference is the strengthening of Adobe Dynamic Link between PrPro and En. The rest, once you get past that, is the same. Jeff's book still covers 98% of Encore - regardless of the version. The individual Help files for the version will fill in any blanks. I still recommend Jeff's book, regardless of what version one has.

                                         

                                        I'd not be afraid of Encore CS3, or CS4. One does not have to use the Adobe DL, and can still do things the "old-fashioned" way. Some have had a few issues with DL and have reverted to that old-fashioned way to solve them. I'm not putting DL down, just sayting that it is not yet perfect in all instances.

                                         

                                        Now, you asked if Encore could have a part in your problem. Only way to tell, would be for you to outline your complete and exact workflow. I highly doubt that En has a role, but without that workflow cannot be sure.

                                         

                                        As for the file format on your DV-AVI's, it seems that you and Jim are working on that. I'd stepping back there, because I am so confused, that there is no way I can be of any help. Jim will get it sorted with your input - I'm certain.

                                         

                                        Good luck,

                                         

                                        Hunt

                                        • 17. Re: OpenDML Video from Capture but not Rendering
                                          GESYMSB Community Member

                                          Thanks Wine...

                                           

                                          Yes we are going crazy here with that, but no matter where, when or how
                                          the point is that we got 2 different types of files from Premiere.
                                          The capture was one type and colors bars was another, and as you can see, we got
                                          no ideas why.To make it worst ( as you can see above ) a combination of both
                                          type produced a file that according to GSPOT, is the same kind as the colors bars.
                                          But, goes ok with Procoder, while the colors bars don't !

                                           

                                          I did another test, got a group of 6 Old Pictures, set it as a slide show, exported

                                          as always, and this file, again according to GSPOT, is like the colors bars
                                          but..... WORKS OK ON PROCODER, so as you can see, I got no clues
                                          and getting worst...... about this mystery....

                                           

                                          About the book, I got it for 20 bucks on Books a Million and love it
                                          The pages are shining in full color with a lot of graphics.

                                           

                                          The name is: ADOBE ENCORE DVD In the Studio
                                          It is NOT for DVD 2 but very close,
                                          By Douglas Dixon and Printed by O'Reilly Books

                                           

                                          Thanks   /)

                                          • 18. Re: OpenDML Video from Capture but not Rendering
                                            Bill Hunt CommunityMVP
                                            The name is: ADOBE ENCORE DVD In the Studio It is NOT for DVD 2 but very close, By Douglas Dixon and Printed by O'Reilly Books

                                             

                                            I am not familiar with that book. If you can get a copy of Jeff's book, I strongly recommend it (as evidenced above). Like I said, everything that you ever wanted to know about Encore (except CS3 & 4 DL), is in it.

                                             

                                            Good luck with the rest. I'll bet that Jim has some useful ideas for you,

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                            • 19. Re: OpenDML Video from Capture but not Rendering
                                              JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                              The capture was one type and colors bars was another, and as you can see, we got no ideas why.

                                               

                                              I gave you a very good idea why.  Length.  Longer exports are v2.0 files.  Only the shorter one is 1.0.

                                              • 20. Re: OpenDML Video from Capture but not Rendering
                                                AEjoachim

                                                I know this is an old thread by now, but I'm having a similiar

                                                problem or maybe the same.

                                                 

                                                We use a GeeVS-server with Matrox hardware to broadcast our television news. (The play-out-to-air-machine)

                                                 

                                                All files produced on a Matrox-hardware machine plays fine on that system - regardless of the length of the file.

                                                 

                                                All files produced on a out-of-the-box PC (HP, DELL, and so on) with Premiere Pro CS2, CS3 or CS4 will play normaly if it is under five minutes long (less than 1GB), and all files above 10 minutes (more than 2GB) will play fine. But anything in between those lenghts (from 5 to 10 minutes) will play incorrectly on or GeeVS server. This is the rule when we use the standard DV AVI codec or use the MS AVI with Matrox DVCAM codec option. ( The GeeVS accepts AVI files with on of those codecs - it will not accept QuickTime and so on. )

                                                 

                                                Our only way to work around this is to bring the files which are between 5 and 10 minutes into a Matrox-hardware system and re-export it.

                                                 

                                                Files created on a Matrox-hardware system, regardless of length, will show up in GSPOT as follows:

                                                DV Type2 AVI

                                                Multipart OpenDML AVI (2 parts)

                                                (xxxx frames in first part, xxxx frames to follow)

                                                 

                                                Files created on a non-Matrox-system, under 10 minutes (less than 2GB), will show:

                                                DV Type2 AVI

                                                AVI v1.0

                                                 

                                                Files created on a non-Matrox-system, over 10 minutes (over 2GB), will show:

                                                DV Type2 AVI

                                                Multipart OpenDML AVI (2 parts)

                                                (xxxx frames in first part, xxxx frames to follow)

                                                 

                                                 

                                                As mentioned we do have a workaround for this problem, but it is time-consuming. Upgrading all the machines to Matrox-hardware is not an option. And replacing the GeeVS with another play-out-machine is also not an option.

                                                 

                                                Is there a way to make PremierePro, on a non-Matrox-system, produce the AVI-files as Multipart OpenDML regardless of the final length of the file? In other words:  is there a way to make PremierePro export Multipart OpenDML AVI's when the project is shorter than 10 minutes (files smaller than 2GB)?

                                                 

                                                Or does anyone have another solution than my own workaround for this problem?

                                                 

                                                Thank you for any help.