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1. Re: Flash gallery has red shift....html just fine.
MadManChan2000 Aug 27, 2009 3:16 PM (in response to gold987987987)Flash galleries exported from Lightroom are not color managed.
Eric
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2. Re: Flash gallery has red shift....html just fine.
gold987987987 Aug 27, 2009 3:23 PM (in response to MadManChan2000)I thought Flash wasn't a color managed program anyway. The html gallery isn't color managed either...but it's rendering things just fine.....it should be sRGB default.
Why is Flash messing around with the colors.
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3. Re: Flash gallery has red shift....html just fine.
Jao vdL Aug 27, 2009 3:28 PM (in response to gold987987987)What can be done??????
To expand on Eric's answer, nothing can be done about this apart from calibrating your screen using hardware (this is requirement No. 1 for image processing on a computer) and using a screen that has a gamut close to sRGB. You're getting a taste here of why color management is so important. Since hardly anybody calibrates their screen, nor color manages this is a (very minor) taste of the kind of variation that your audience will get. The variability is probably even larger, but scatters around what you should see in Lightroom and a color managed browser such as Safari. Nothing you can do about it but calibrate your own screen and color manage yourself. What you see will be an average representation of what others see.
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4. Re: Flash gallery has red shift....html just fine.
gold987987987 Aug 27, 2009 3:35 PM (in response to Jao vdL)I've been using Lightroom for 2 or 3 years now and I've never seen anything this bad.
I just installed Windows 7 RC and I'm wondering if the monitor profiles are messing with what I'm seeing.
This still doesn't explain why the html is looking so different from the Flash. Aren't they both non color managed aplications?
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5. Re: Flash gallery has red shift....html just fine.
Jao vdL Aug 27, 2009 3:45 PM (in response to gold987987987)I just installed Windows 7 RC and I'm wondering if the monitor profiles are messing with
Yes! You should calibrate and profile your screen. More than likely you have a bad/corrupt monitor profile that got introduced by the installation of Windows 7. Unfortunately this is very common. If you have no hardware calibrator, go to your monitor's properties pane and delete any profiles associated with it. Now the flash and HTML display will be exactly equal (and equal to the Lightroom display) but equally wrong. Then run out and buy a hardware calibrator. It is indispensable equipment for doing digital photography at this level. You can get them for less than $100 and are one of the most important purchases you can make if you want your color to be consistent from screen to browser to print.
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6. Re: Flash gallery has red shift....html just fine.
gold987987987 Aug 27, 2009 3:47 PM (in response to gold987987987)OK, I'm on to something now! I'm using two 24" Dell WFP 2408 monitors.....I went into Windows 7's color management and found that it was using a ICC profile for my monitors. I deactivated the profile for monitor #1 and then ran Lightroom in monitor #1. The colors were over saturated red just like the Flash web gallery. I then dragged Lightroom into monitor #2 and the colors then went back to normal.
My monitor profile is jacking up what I see in lightroom! I edited my photos with the ICC monitor profile active and when I exported them to sRGB they looked super red.
If the majority of my work is for the web....should I even use Windows Color Management profiles for my monitors????
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7. Re: Flash gallery has red shift....html just fine.
Jao vdL Aug 27, 2009 4:26 PM (in response to gold987987987)I'm using two 24" Dell WFP 2408 monitors
Those are wide gamut monitors. The colors will NEVER look correct in unmanaged apps since your monitor is wider gamut than sRGB. You should buy a hardware calibrator and calibrate both of them. Make sure you get a calibrator that supports multiple monitors. Then you should only believe the colors you see in managed applications (Firefox, Safari, windows picture viewer, Photoshop, Lightroom, etc.) and not in unmanaged apps such as IE, opera, flash in any app. If your monitor's gamut is different from sRGB, all unmanaged apps will always show the wrong color, even when you export to sRGB.
If the majority of my work is for the web....should I even use Windows Color Management profiles for my monitors????
Yes, it is essential actually, but the profiles have to be generated by a hardware calibrator as the vendor supplied profiles are pretty bad generally. On these monitors, never believe the color in IE or in flash. it is always wrong.
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8. Re: Flash gallery has red shift....html just fine.
Pete Marshall Aug 27, 2009 5:22 PM (in response to gold987987987)Flash is not colour managed, nor is IE or Opera. Only Firefox and Safari are colour managed and Firefox only uses ICC v 2 (which is also ued by LR so isn't a real problem yet). Safri uses icc v4 which allows the use of the new v4 sRGB which supposedly will improve quality of sRGB images and hopefully will be included in LR 3. It is always best to export to sRGB irrespective of what browser you are personally using, for web images. Most end users are on IE and the likelihood of that being colour managed is remote
Colour managed browsers and players however still can't make up for a lack of colour management on your own machine. When using LR it is absolutely essential that your monitor is correctly profiled and only a hardware device can do this. A decent device will install the profile for you and you will not need to touch either windows colour management or colorsync if using OSX. You should also remove ADOBE Gamma from the start up folder if it has been installed there as older copies of PS did this by default
In a two monitor set up things become a little more complicated. Most graphics cards will not retain two separate monitor profiles, so unless you have two graphics cards with most calibration devices you will actually only be running one profile for both monitors. If the two monitors are identical this should not cause to big a problem and if the software that comes with the calibration device does luminance matching you can at least match the luminance values for both monitors. Just setting them at the same numerical value will not work as they will be affected differently by the differing amounts of ambient light in the room. This can cause difficulties with slightly different contrast levels on the two monitor, but will not effect the eventual output.
I would recommend the Spyder 3 with the Elite software for any two monitor system with only one graphics cards, as this both does monitor matching and will use software to load a seperate profile for each monitor in the latest version, getting round the limitation of most graphics cards drivers inability to hold two separate profiles.
In the mean time rather than using any manufacturer supplied profile for your monitor (which are nearly always corrupt) and until you get proper calibration setting your monitors to use the sRGB colour space as a monitor profile will at least ensure that web based images will be standardised when exported as sRGB. This is far from ideal as it certainly gives you a smaller colour space to view in that your monitor is actually capable of and will mean you won't be getting the best from your images....but it is better than exporting from an incorrectly profiled monitor to sRGB which is guaranteed to cause problems.
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9. Re: Flash gallery has red shift....html just fine.
gold987987987 Aug 27, 2009 6:05 PM (in response to Pete Marshall)Thanks for the feedback!
I disabled the 2408WFP ICC profile in Windows Color Management and things look normal again. I was surprised to find out that I can have a separate profile for each monitor in Windows 7.....pretty cool....I couldn't do that with XP.
So, I think I need a Color Calibration tool and then I read a post like this and I think otherwise: http://support.datacolor.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=723&rat ingconfirm=1
This guy has a wide gamut monitor like me, he buys a Spyder, he calibrates it and then all his sRGB stuff looks horrible.
I have to ask again: If I do 95% web work....do I really want to calibrate my monitors when 99.999% of the viewing public isn't using color managed browsers and doesn't have their monitors calibrated either?????
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10. Re: Flash gallery has red shift....html just fine.
Jao vdL Aug 27, 2009 9:05 PM (in response to gold987987987)So, I think I need a Color Calibration tool and then I read a post like this and I think otherwise:http://support.datacolor.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticle id=723&ratingconfirm=1
This guy has a wide gamut monitor like me, he buys a Spyder, he calibrates it and then all his sRGB stuff looks horrible.
Read that link again. The answer given is correct. The problem is that this is a wide gamut monitor. This causes all the nonmanaged apps, such as internet explorer and flash to give incorrect color, regardless of whether you calibrate or not. The problem is the monitor NOT the profiling. If you want to do web work on such a monitor, you have to avoid IE like the plague (you should do that anyway). Firefox will color manage as well as Safari. Another solution is to buy a non wide-gamut but high quality monitor. This will avoid all such issues.
I have to ask again: If I do 95% web work....do I really want to calibrate my monitors when 99.999% of the viewing public isn't using color managed browsers and doesn't have their monitors calibrated either?????
Yes you absolutely have. Especially if you use a non-sRGB monitor. You have to calibrate and you have to use color managed apps. IE and flash will always lie to you on your monitor no matter what you do.


